Brexit deal

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I suspect she's learning parliament can block no deal which gives her a problem.  In some ways Corbyn is correct, a majority government with strength would provide a better solution.  Thing is I doubt any party can get one.

[BillyStubbsTears]

She would have done last year if she'd been capable of forming coherent sentences in public.

[SydneyRover]

''Theresa May's Brexit deal unlikely to pass, says Liam Fox''

Nothing gets passed Mr Fox does it?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/14/theresa-mays-brexit-deal-unlikely-to-pass-says-liam-fox

[BillyStubbsTears]

The incompetence of May's premiership continues to amaze me.

 May has always said that, despite the closeness of the 2016 result, we have to respect the Will of the People.

Today, she's giving a speech where she compares the 2016 vote to the vote in 1998 to set up a Welsh Assembly.

Her speech has been pre-released to the Press. In it, she will say that, even though the 1998 referendum  vote to set up a Welsh Assembly  was very close, it was “accepted by both sides” and the “popular legitimacy of that institution has never seriously been questioned”.

Yeah well.

When the Bill to set up the Welsh Assembly was brought to Parliament, 144 Tory MPs voted against it.

Go on. Have a wild guess as to who one of those 144 was.

That's right. Theresa May MP.

Absolutely f**king useless. She can't even check facts about her own past before opening her trap and pouring out today's bullshit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mind, while we're talking about Brexit-supporters not being very good on simple things like facts, here's another one showing his ignorance.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1084407160304472064

[RedJ]

The incompetence of May's premiership continues to amaze me.

 May has always said that, despite the closeness of the 2016 result, we have to respect the Will of the People.

Today, she's giving a speech where she compares the 2016 vote to the vote in 1998 to set up a Welsh Assembly.

Her speech has been pre-released to the Press. In it, she will say that, even though the 1998 referendum  vote to set up a Welsh Assembly  was very close, it was “accepted by both sides” and the “popular legitimacy of that institution has never seriously been questioned”.

Yeah well.

When the Bill to set up the Welsh Assembly was brought to Parliament, 144 Tory MPs voted against it.

Go on. Have a wild guess as to who one of those 144 was.

That's right. Theresa May MP.

Absolutely f**king useless. She can't even check facts about her own past before opening her trap and pouring out today's bullshit.

I saw a thread on twitter this morning showing quite a few leading Brexiteers voted against that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The hypocrisy is bad enough.

But in some ways, the lack of competence in fact checking is even worse. How are you supposed to be trusted to gather evidence on complex issues and come to logical confusions about policy if you can't even be arsed to check your own previous behaviour?

Or, she knew exactly what she had done in 98 and decided to ignore it and hoodwink people, assuming no-one would check.

Either way, it's staggering incompetence.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well whaddya know?

She's cut that bit from here speech.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-politics-46863044

[Donnywolf]

... and she warns about not respecting the will of the British people and (I know - I cant stop saying this) I want someone interviewing her asking why the 1976 vote was not "respected" by (mostly) those in her Party ?

10 times the Majority as I have said for "Remain" in 76 than voted "Leave" in 2016 - so Maybot Fox Grayling and all you other fact twisting g**s - whats the difference ?????

OK times moved on as I conceded many times - we live in a changed EU - but the facts are the facts

Personally I hope she gets heavily defeated 350 250 will do (and a few abstaining) - then gets nowt from the EU - then gets a second hammering - then resigns ! I would love to shout "have you delivered strong and stable Govt ex Prime Minister" and "have you delivered on the will of the People ex Prime Minister"

Sorry I am still feeling (lets say) Ratty after Wycombe

[Axholme Lion]

Excellent contribution as usual AL.

Many thanks.:-)

[Bentley Bullet]

Sorry I am still feeling (lets say) Ratty after Wycombe

You can't blame May for Wycombe, Wolfie!

[scawsby steve]

Sorry I am still feeling (lets say) Ratty after Wycombe

You can't blame May for Wycombe, Wolfie!

I know someone who might.

[i_ateallthepies]

Mrs May has said there is more chance of Brexit not going ahead than a no deal scenario. What happened to “no deal is better than a bad deal”? Why was “no Brexit is better than a bad deal” never touted by her?

Her last throw of the dice trying to get more support for her deal tomorrow.  The brexiteers' own attempt at a Project Fear.

[tommy toes]

I like how she said 'Vote for my deal for the good of the British people.'
When she actually meant 'Vote for my deal to save my career and my place in the history books.'

[MachoMadness]

I think she has that place in the history books sewn up at least. Just not for the reasons she'd like.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh aye. There'll be entire history books written about her and her immediate predecessor.

Can you imagine in 100 years time. Kids reading about 2010-18?

"So you're saying they actively CHOSE to adopt an economic strategy that everyone KNEW went against every principle of economics? And it made the country far poorer? And as a result, a far-right gobshite became very popular, telling folk it was all the fault of foreigners. And because the main stream politicians didn't know how to handle him, the entire country was f**ked.

"But dad. But dad. SURELY they'd read their history books about Germany in the 1930s? Surely, a country that was so obsessed with the Nazis and the War knew enough about them not to make the same f**king stupid mistakes that they had made?"

[BillyStubbsTears]

So, May has said tonight that a second referendum would be a "subversion of democracy".

f**king bizarre if you ask me. How a democratic vote could subvert democracy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You want to know how authoritarianism starts?

This is how authoritarianism starts.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1084856282937548800

Read that carefully.

Milliband is 100% correct. In our system of governence, the Govt is answerable to MPs in Parliament. MPs are answerable to the people through elections.

Look at what May is doing here. She's saying that she, as the Head of Govt, is answerable to the People. .

What she's doing here is what EVERY demagogue who seizes power does. She's saying that Parliament is an obstruction that should be swept away. She's saying that SHE knows what the people want and Parliament doesn't. She's saying that she has a sacred duty to implement (her interpretation of) what the people want.

If she wasn't an incompetent f**kwit, this would be a very dangerous moment.

But remember this. You have never in your entire lives before today heard a British PM publicly claim that they should be a demagogue. You have today.

Very troubling times.

[SydneyRover]

Government of the privileged, by the privileged, for the privileged. I think I got it right.

[Donnywolf]

I think she has that place in the history books sewn up at least. Just not for the reasons she'd like.

So has Cameron

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Find me a pm who has a place In  history that's positive?  Quite an interesting point when you think about it.

It'll be a fascinating day that's for sure.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Clem Atlee? Churchill? Harold Macmillan? Thatcher to her supporters. Harold Wilson, brilliantly holding together the centripetal forces in the Labour party for a decade (and it disintegrated within 5 years of his retirement).

The point is though that it's a finely calibrated scale. It's not a binary Great/Shite assessment. There are PMs who, whatever your opinion on their politics, directed the agenda and changed the direction of the country. Atlee and Thatcher are two perfect examples.

There are PMs who get buffeted by events outside their direct control. Major over Black Wednesday and the start of the Tory civil war over Europe. Brown over the Great Financial Crash.

Then there are PMs who made catastrophically shocking errors and lost control. Since the War, that's only really happened three times, through a PM's choice of policy. Eden over Suez, Cameron over Austerity and Brexit and May, for over playing her hand on Brexit and then f**king it up in the 2017 GE through her own spectacularly awful performance. Those are the three that the history books will have at the bottom of any list of post-War PMs. All the others have redeeming features.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Talking about how shockingly bad May is, THIS is her Plan B when she's battered tonight.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1085075981893799937

Any PM in history would resign after the defeat she is going to endure tonight. Not May. She wants this amendment passed so she can go back to the EU and say, "You know that safety net on the Irish border? The one I agreed had to have no end date because if it has an end date then by definition it's not a safety net, duh! Well...errr...it's like this. I want an end date to it. And yeah, I know you have said, time and again that you won't do that. But I've only got two options. Ask again. Or resign. And yes, I appreciate that I'm utterly embarrassing and humiliating our great country through my abject incompetence."

[Boomstick]

Clem Atlee? Churchill? Harold Macmillan? Thatcher to her supporters. Harold Wilson, brilliantly holding together the centripetal forces in the Labour party for a decade (and it disintegrated within 5 years of his retirement).

The point is though that it's a finely calibrated scale. It's not a binary Great/Shite assessment. There are PMs who, whatever your opinion on their politics, directed the agenda and changed the direction of the country. Atlee and Thatcher are two perfect examples.

There are PMs who get buffeted by events outside their direct control. Major over Black Wednesday and the start of the Tory civil war over Europe. Brown over the Great Financial Crash.

Then there are PMs who made catastrophically shocking errors and lost control. Since the War, that's only really happened three times, through a PM's choice of policy. Eden over Suez, Cameron over Austerity and Brexit and May, for over playing her hand on Brexit and then f**king it up in the 2017 GE through her own spectacularly awful performance. Those are the three that the history books will have at the bottom of any list of post-War PMs. All the others have redeeming features.

You can add Tony Bliar to that list

[bobjimwilly]

From recollection Blair never lost control of the house. And the errors he made with the wars in iraq and afghanistan were backed a majority of MPs.

[MachoMadness]

To be fair Iraq will forever blight Blair. That's undoubtedly what he's gone down in history for. I'm the first to be critical of him, even though his government did oversee a long period of massive prosperity that I was lucky enough to grow up in. What has May's government actually done? What's a positive change they've made for British society? Even Cameron, who'll also go down as a disaster, can say his government legalised gay marriage. May's government has stumbled from shambles to shambles for over 2 years.

[tommy toes]

It pissed me off when Churchill won the greatest Briton ever thingy on the BBC and Attlee was nowhere to be seen.
Attlee was right there with Winston throughout the war and then delivered the greatest series of reforms ever in the post war government, while at the same time keeping together the warring factions within the Labour party eg Bevan,Bevin and Morrison for nigh on 20 years
IMO (and others more knowledgeable than me) the greatest PM ever.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm no fan of Blair's (I left the Labour party because of him) but anyone who compares his control of the political agenda with that of Cameron, May and Eden, knows the square root of f**k all about politics.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tommy

You've got to be careful here.

There are right wingers who immortalise Thatcher and ignore the fact that she failed badly at the end of her term and became a liability.

Labour supporters tend to do the same with Attlee. Yes, he put the country onto another path (a much better one in my opinion, but that's just my opinion). But within 5 years he'd lost his massive majority, and within another year he was in opposition.

Churchill stands above everyone else because he was the person that defined what was required to galvanise the country in the most dangerous moments of our history. Yes Attlee was in the coalition cabinet, and yes it was a collective effort of Govt during the War. But Churchill transcended that and defined the spirit of the nation at a time when it might have broken. If Lord Halifax had become PM in 1940 (and he very nearly did) there would have been a very different outcome to WWII.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. Could we do with Churchill to galvanize the country now?