Brexit deal

[drfchound]

BST

If a second referendum is as simple as the last one, that is Remain or Leave, and we get another Leave victory, where will we be then.
Would we be where we are now?
Would we be any further forward?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

I've set this out several times before.

The problem with the first one was that there was no clarity on what Leave meant. Farage was still talking about a Norway deal 6 months AFTER the referendum.

Leave, in 2016 covered a wide range of concepts.

You deal with that by having a more nuanced referendum now that we know what the possibilities of Leave are.

You have three, maybe four options.

No Deal
May's deal or a variant of that.
Perhaps a Norway type deal.
Remain.

If you have those 4 options, voters mark them 1-4 in order of preference. You add up all the 1's. If no option gets 50% of the 1’s, you eliminate the option with the least 1's. Then you re-allocate the 2's from the ballots you've eliminated. Keep going till some option gets 50%.

It's simple, fair, informed and democratic.

If any Leave option wins, I would accept that.

[drfchound]

Hound.

I've set this out several times before.

The problem with the first one was that there was no clarity on what Leave meant. Farage was still talking about a Norway deal 6 months AFTER the referendum.

Leave, in 2016 covered a wide range of concepts.

You deal with that by having a more nuanced referendum now that we know what the possibilities of Leave are.

You have three, maybe four options.

No Deal
May's deal or a variant of that.
Perhaps a Norway type deal.
Remain.

If you have those 4 options, voters mark them 1-4 in order of preference. You add up all the 1's. If no option gets 50% of the 1’s, you eliminate the option with the least 1's. Then you re-allocate the 2's from the ballots you've eliminated. Keep going till some option gets 50%.

It's simple, fair, informed and democratic.

If any Leave option wins, I would accept that.

BST, yes I know what you have said before (as above) but I haven’t heard any of the politicians or journalists say the same thing.
All they talk about is a second referendum.
So that is why I asked you the question in my previous post.

I acknowledge that your knowledge of our political system is very good but I have only seen you suggest those four options.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Then that's a pretty shocking indictment of our media. I've seen numerous people suggest pretty much exactly what I'm saying.

[RedJ]

Looks like a monumental defeat for May judging by pictures from the No lobby...

[BillyStubbsTears]

Actually, maybe it's an indictment of people not paying attention.

Here's an MP proposing that 7 months ago, and a newspaper reporting it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/16/back-second-brexit-vote-says-conservative-mp-justine-greening

I'd certainly agree that MANY papers haven't reported that. You might want to consider why that is.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You might also want to ponder why May's Govt were so vehemently against it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-44840154

[RedJ]

230 majority against. Christ.

[GazLaz]

Bye bye Theresa.

[RedJ]

Corbyn has tabled a motion of no confidence in the government.

[drfchound]

What a shock.

[GazLaz]

I thought Jezza was going to have a stroke there.

[bobjimwilly]

Would Corbyn have called the no confidence vote if he didn't think he had the votes?

[GazLaz]

Would Corbyn have called the no confidence vote if he didn't think he had the votes?

He didn’t have a choice did he? He’s had it up his sleeve for months and he has waited until the Tories are at rock bottom before he played it.

[The Red Baron]

Would Corbyn have called the no confidence vote if he didn't think he had the votes?

He's got no choice, given the scale of the Government defeat and then May effective throwing down the gauntlet to him.

I think he would probably have preferred to wait until after Monday when May has to come back with  "Plan B."

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Would Corbyn have called the no confidence vote if he didn't think he had the votes?

He has no choice, she basically called him out and he can't carry on saying he's going to do it and then not.

Many reckon she will win it.  A big loss but again you listen to her and she impresses in her speeches tonight.  Why can't she be like that all the time?

He big thing is May wins tomorrow then what?  I cannot see the Tories going against her really but you never know....

[roversdude]

Matt Hancock dying on his arse in interview on beeb

[BillyStubbsTears]

2nd referendum is the only logical outcome now.

Parliament will not allow No Deal.

There is no possibility of May negotiating a re-worked deal which could turn round a vote like tonight.

Labour's no confidence vote will fail.

What other option is there from here?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Matt Hancock is not even close to being a third rate politician. He's f**king hopeless.

[GazLaz]

2nd referendum is the only logical outcome now.

Parliament will not allow No Deal.

There is no possibility of May negotiating a re-worked deal which could turn round a vote like tonight.

Labour's no confidence vote will fail.

What other option is there from here?

Take the 6/4.

[GazLaz]

Matt Hancock is not even close to being a third rate politician. He's f**king hopeless.

He’s another bumbling idiot. The question he kept getting asked and not answering was the easiest question he could have been asked. He should have just listed every possibility, even though they are all probably impossible to negotiate.

[Copps is Magic]

It's Jan 15th. The only practical solution now is to postpone article 50.

Get ready for a perpetual state of brexit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP.

Because it's not about speeches. It's about getting big strategic decisions right.

She's got every single one wrong for two and a half years.

She called A50 too soon.
She announced red lines that gave her no negotiating room.
She failed to build coalitions in Parliament.
She called and catastrophically lost a GE that she didn't need to call.
She agreed a deal that an infant could have predicted would never be accepted by Parliament.
She never accepted that in the weak position she was in, she HAD to keep options open.

Utterly f**king hopeless at every step of the way. A decent speech tonight doesn't make up for 30 months of total failure.

[The Red Baron]

2nd referendum is the only logical outcome now.

Parliament will not allow No Deal.

There is no possibility of May negotiating a re-worked deal which could turn round a vote like tonight.

Labour's no confidence vote will fail.

What other option is there from here?

I agree. There is a big question for the Shadow Cabinet tomorrow though. When the No-Confidence vote goes down, will they accept that a GE is off the table and throw their weight behind a 2nd Referendum? Over to you, Jezza.

[GazLaz]

It’s very difficult to negotiate a deal if you are not willing to just walk away. You just end up getting slapped around.

[keith79]

2nd 3rd 4th we will vote till we get what we want.

[IDM]

We have to go to the EU and delay article 50.. no deal cannot happen, and cancelling article 50 and dropping brexit without a peoples vote goes against the original outcome..

Then whoever is in government has more time to sort this mess out..

Or better, IMHO, cancel brexit which we can do unilaterally and then do what we should have done before, get an exit strategy agreeable to parliament and the EU and then offer that choice to the electorate.

BST said at the top of this page what I have been saying since June 2016, the leave option was never clarified - surely folks could see that leaving the EU was never going to be as simple as jut leaving, period.??

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'll say again. Putin must be laughing his cock off.

We have a Govt in absolute chaos at the most vital moment in three generations.

This is precisely what he wanted to achieve when he poured money into the  Leave campaign.

[BillyStubbsTears]

2nd 3rd 4th we will vote till we get what we want.

Don't be silly. Read what I and others have written here.

[IDM]

2nd 3rd 4th we will vote till we get what we want.

No, we actually need a vote which is clear hatbthe outcomes mean.. should have done that first but the government never thought leave would win..