Brexit deal

[Filo]

The big bribe of public money did the job for them, and to rub salt into their wounds, Dodds stood up in the house and basically told them that May is their bitch

[Donnywolf]

.... AND he/they are right.

[wilts rover]

Corbyn setting out May taking No Deal of the table before he would go into talks with her was quite cute. It means she can't then threaten moderate Labour MP's with this - plus it gains a rump of disaffected ERG's who may be tempted to vote with him next time if he does go into those talks, they fail, and he calls another VofC.

[BillyStubbsTears]

On what planet are ERG members going to vote to give Corbyn a shot at No10?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Corbyn setting out May taking No Deal of the table before he would go into talks with her was quite cute. It means she can't then threaten moderate Labour MP's with this - plus it gains a rump of disaffected ERG's who may be tempted to vote with him next time if he does go into those talks, they fail, and he calls another VofC.

It arguably sums up why stalemate will remain.  It's unlikely she will go for it but let's see what her statement says. He hasn't come out of this well at all.

[Donnywolf]

Oh god - more misery as "she" makes a statement at 10pm

Bingo anyone ? Strong and Stable Govt - Must deliver on the will of the British people - I resign

Doubt it will be the last one !

[Filo]

It will be a statement saying the DUP will let her be in charge overnight while they go to bed 😀

[Filo]

Well that was a pointless conference, she’s like a turd that won’t flush

[Mr1Croft]

The question is where do we go from here? The Government has to put a motion before the house on Monday.

I think JC is banking on TM's motion to propose either a customs union deal (losing the ERG and hard Brexiteers support) or no deal (losing Tory Remainers and 'centrists' support). I think he hopes a committed move in either direction from the PM opens the door for another VoC that he thinks he may win.

I don't think JC will move to support a 2nd referendum until he has tabled at least 1 more unsuccessful VoC. I really doubt he would have started this fight yesterday if he didn't think he could win.

Either way, the UK will not be leaving on 29th March 2019.

[albie]

Just so, Mr Croft....just so!

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'll repeat. On what planet will the ERG vote to give Corbyn a shot at No10?

Actually, there IS one far distant planet. The one where the ERG thinks there would be a harder Brexit under Corbyn than under May...

[SydneyRover]

A Corbyn ministry terrifies me

Why?

You’ve seen what damage the present dictator has done?

And I've said to you before Filo (on Twitter) that neither of the main parties are fit to rule

What policies are you against from Labour though?

I'm more aghast at Corbyn (and abbot) than Labour itself. A more moderate labour would have a chance at my vote (at the moment I find myself politically homeless).

If you wanted to look at specifics there isn't much, though I am opposed to re nationalizing railways, my view there is that you pay for a service as you use it - I dislike the idea of subsidising things. I do agree with certain social policies. UC is a massive failure and the NHS has to be protected at all costs though people need to realise outsourcing (currently necessary) is might be same as privatisation (unacceptable in the case of the NHS).

My major concern is financial, the tax the rich and companies mantra looks great on paper but in practice doesn't work. When they fail to extract the money needed it falls on the rest of us who can't move ourselves or our money overseas to pay for all these policies.

Don't get me started on his falklands sovereignty either........

In short, totally disillusioned

The problem with privatisation of services and utilities is it is difficult to maintain competition and the conservatives don't care as it ideological and they have invested in them. LDR

''Funding for rail companies today is four times what British Rail got in the 1970s and 80s''

''Britain’s privatised railways have been getting around £5 billion on average in government support over the last five years. In the last five years of the 1980s—the earliest period we have figures for before privatisation—it was an average of £1.6 billion in today’s money''

https://fullfact.org/economy/government-funding-rail-industry-bbcqt/

So apart from privatisation/re-nationalization of railways what else are you concerned about?

LDR, have a look at the screen shot and tell us what you think of the user-pays principle/model.

I'm not sure myself how the subsidies work, are they straight out gifts to the private sector, are they loans or does the public get a slice of the franchise to be cashed in when the lease period is up? we should get something for propping up private companies, though my position is that public transport like education and health etc is a necessity and a benefit to the nation and should not be forced to make a profit.

https://screenshots.firefox.com/zdc6CM6xNSsKTFEb/www.ft.com

https://www.ft.com/content/90c0f8e8-17fd-11e8-9e9c-25c814761640

Some time ago Herbert Anchovy cast doubt on our ability to re-nationalize the railways while still in the EU, but according to the chart and the subsidies we still pay out(see screen shot) all we would have to do HA is to take back any franchise at the end of the lease and have the government set up a dummy franchisee with a single govt' officer in control and fund 100% of the operation via subsidies and voila nationalization.

[drfchound]

Mr Corbyn is missing a good opportunity here by not attending the cross party talks.
IF the talks resulted in a deal being struck which would be acceptable to Parliament and more importantly, to the EU, then Corbyn and the Labour Party members would always be able to say that it was them who got the thing sorted out.

I think he will collect his toys up anyway soon and join in the chat, he has no option really.

[GazLaz]

Mr Corbyn is missing a good opportunity here by not attending the cross party talks.
IF the talks resulted in a deal being struck which would be acceptable to Parliament and more importantly, to the EU, then Corbyn and the Labour Party members would always be able to say that it was them who got the thing sorted out.

I think he will collect his toys up anyway soon and join in the chat, he has no option really.

JC is just operating a week in front of everyone else by trying to get May to take no deal off the table. Parliament will force her to do that in the next week or so. May just shows no signs of any forward thinking or flexibility.

[drfchound]

Mr Corbyn is missing a good opportunity here by not attending the cross party talks.
IF the talks resulted in a deal being struck which would be acceptable to Parliament and more importantly, to the EU, then Corbyn and the Labour Party members would always be able to say that it was them who got the thing sorted out.

I think he will collect his toys up anyway soon and join in the chat, he has no option really.

JC is just operating a week in front of everyone else by trying to get May to take no deal off the table. Parliament will force her to do that in the next week or so. May just shows no signs of any forward thinking or flexibility.

......and yet I still haven’t seen a Deal proposal from Corbyn, or anyone else for that matter.

[SydneyRover]

Mr Corbyn is missing a good opportunity here by not attending the cross party talks.
IF the talks resulted in a deal being struck which would be acceptable to Parliament and more importantly, to the EU, then Corbyn and the Labour Party members would always be able to say that it was them who got the thing sorted out.

I think he will collect his toys up anyway soon and join in the chat, he has no option really.

JC is just operating a week in front of everyone else by trying to get May to take no deal off the table. Parliament will force her to do that in the next week or so. May just shows no signs of any forward thinking or flexibility.

......and yet I still haven’t seen a Deal proposal from Corbyn, or anyone else for that matter.

You can't really offer a deal from opposition unless it's a joint deal with cooperation from the government, you can only state policy that your party will adopt if it gets to government. May has known since she was handed the poisoned chalice that she would not be able to broker a deal in her own party let alone across the government.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound

Kier Starmer has set out Labour's position time and again.

The key point where it differs from May's deal is that Labour would stay in the Customs Union.

That is the nub of the whole issue.

May said we would leave the CU.

If we leave the CU, we CANNOT get a trade deal with the EU, because us leaving the CU would f**k Ireland and the EU has had that as a red line from Day 1.

So, if you leave the CU, either you find a magic unicorn that makes the Irish border vanish (Boris  Johnson's "plan") you treat NI differently and they stay in the CU (the backstop) or you accept that there will be no deal with the EU, with all the economic Armageddon that will produce (Rees-Mogg's "plan").

It's THAT simple. May has brought this on us by deciding that Brexit meant leaving the CU. Labour says Brexit does not require us to leave the CU (although admittedly, Corbyn had to be dragged to that position by wiser heads).

[drfchound]

Mr Corbyn is missing a good opportunity here by not attending the cross party talks.
IF the talks resulted in a deal being struck which would be acceptable to Parliament and more importantly, to the EU, then Corbyn and the Labour Party members would always be able to say that it was them who got the thing sorted out.

I think he will collect his toys up anyway soon and join in the chat, he has no option really.

JC is just operating a week in front of everyone else by trying to get May to take no deal off the table. Parliament will force her to do that in the next week or so. May just shows no signs of any forward thinking or flexibility.

......and yet I still haven’t seen a Deal proposal from Corbyn, or anyone else for that matter.

You can't really offer a deal from opposition unless it's a joint deal with cooperation from the government, you can only state policy that your party will adopt if it gets to government. May has known since she was handed the poisoned chalice that she would not be able to broker a deal in her own party let alone across the government.

Ok, fair enough.

I did suggest a few weeks ago that the best way forward was an all party “war cabinet” type of thing, putting country first before the bashing of their opponents.

However, whenever some MP or another has a pop at the May deal and is asked what they think should be done in a particular circumstance, not one of them comes up with a constructive response.
In fact it is very rare that one of them actually answers a question.

The proposed cross party talks will be interesting if only to see what alternatives are suggested.

[BillyStubbsTears]

How can there be talks with May when she said in Parliament last night that she wouldn't accept any major changes to her deal. (Y'know. That deal that lost by a bigger margin than any Govt Bill in history...)
What are the other parties supposed to discuss with her?

[SydneyRover]

How can there be talks with May when she said in Parliament last night that she wouldn't accept any major changes to her deal. (Y'know. That deal that lost by a bigger margin than any Govt Bill in history...)
What are the other parties supposed to discuss with her?

Putting lipstick on the pig?

[Filo]

How can there be talks with May when she said in Parliament last night that she wouldn't accept any major changes to her deal. (Y'know. That deal that lost by a bigger margin than any Govt Bill in history...)
What are the other parties supposed to discuss with her?

It’s just an exercise in shifting the blame for her, she’ll say look I tried but no one would move on their red lines, another attempt at running down the clock

[Glyn_Wigley]

On what planet are ERG members going to vote to give Corbyn a shot at No10?

When it looks like Brexit is going to die and a General Election is the only way they can see of keeping it alive.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Mr Corbyn is missing a good opportunity here by not attending the cross party talks.
IF the talks resulted in a deal being struck which would be acceptable to Parliament and more importantly, to the EU, then Corbyn and the Labour Party members would always be able to say that it was them who got the thing sorted out.

I think he will collect his toys up anyway soon and join in the chat, he has no option really.

JC is just operating a week in front of everyone else by trying to get May to take no deal off the table. Parliament will force her to do that in the next week or so. May just shows no signs of any forward thinking or flexibility.

Exactly. He wants May to publicly alienate the ERG so they'll turn against her even more.

[The Red Baron]

Corbyn has really painted himself in a corner by setting pre-conditions for meeting May. In doing so, he's making No Deal more likely.

Don't forget, No Deal is the default position.

[Filo]

Corbyn has really painted himself in a corner by setting pre-conditions for meeting May. In doing so, he's making No Deal more likely.

Don't forget, No Deal is the default position.

All the other opposition parties have set the same pre condition, the only difference is Corbyn told her in the chamber, the rest told her in a meeting

[DonnyOsmond]

Corbyn has really painted himself in a corner by setting pre-conditions for meeting May. In doing so, he's making No Deal more likely.

Don't forget, No Deal is the default position.

She publicly stated she is looking for Brexit to go ahead, she has said she won't rule out No Deal and won't be changing her deal much/along with the EU saying they won't budge. She is turning this into a run away train heading only to No Deal.

[The Red Baron]

Corbyn has really painted himself in a corner by setting pre-conditions for meeting May. In doing so, he's making No Deal more likely.

Don't forget, No Deal is the default position.

All the other opposition parties have set the same pre condition, the only difference is Corbyn told her in the chamber, the rest told her in a meeting

They told her that to her face, which is fair enough. Corbyn refused to meet her. I can only conclude he isn't interested in sorting out Brexit and is obsessed with having a General Election (which won't resolve Brexit, by the way.)

I suspect if he could, Corbyn would like to rule out a Second Referendum, although here he is constrained by the Labour Party Conference vote.

[Arsenal Of The North]

If there is a GE would you still vote the same way? (This is mainly aimed at the people who voted to leave as I can’t imagine the remainers have changed there mind) I voted leave, and I’d still vote the same way my self

[Ldr]

If there is a GE would you still vote the same way? (This is mainly aimed at the people who voted to leave as I can’t imagine the remainers have changed there mind) I voted leave, and I’d still vote the same way my self

Am not sure you can equate the 2 mate. I voted leave, would again (though the monumental f**k sauce they are making of it casts some doubts on the process) but I wouldn't vote the same in a GE as I did last time as I couldnt back either main party. I have concluded that no one in the house is interested in anything else than lining their own pockets and those of their principle backers ( big business / unions)

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Corbyn is not playing a blinder refusing to talk - it makes him look like a child and we're already seeing comments such as "you openly invite terrorists to parliament but won't talk to the PM without conditions".  That's not a good place for him to be and it's coming from some of his MPs also - though some of those are hardly impartial.

To the public it just doesn't make him appear a good leader, plays up to his hardcore fanatics but then anything would.  He won't ever have power with those tactics.