Brexit deal

[Mr1Croft]

 The irony in all of this, is the likes of Nigel Farage and Mark Francois are happy doing the rounds on the media showing outrage on Tusk calling them out for not having a plan, whilst still not telling anyone their plan.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Wow, tusk, wow.
The childish ramblings of a desparate man, trying to hold together a failing political empire.

29th of March is gonna be sweet.

Funny how you didn't notice the insults he gave the Remainers.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You'll look a reight bell end celebrating on 29 March BS.

[Sprotyrover]

I thought May had promised to maintain workers rights a couple of years ago? So having been exposed as not protecting workers rights she want to legislate to protect rights that should already be protected.

What is to stop a Conservative party in the future trashing this, nothing, without the protection of the EU workers will be in a weakened state subjected to greedy employers forcing wages and conditions down once again.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/06/may-to-woo-labour-with-law-giving-uk-workers-same-rights-as-in-eu

Back in 2016

''Doubts cast on Theresa May's pledge to protect workers' rights post-Brexit''

''The prime minister made a pledge to stick to EU protections such as guarantees of paid holiday, maternity and paternity rights and time off in between shifts. But an examination of her past statements on workers’ rights reveals that she repeatedly attacked the then Labour government’s decision to sign up to the EU’s social chapter when the Conservatives were in opposition''

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/nov/07/doubts-cast-on-theresa-mays-pledge-to-protect-workers-rights-post-brexit

Sydney we live in a Democracy once we are free of the shackles enforced on us by the Twits in Brussels we can choose our own destiny,if The Maybot does not live up to our expectations we can vote Her party out of power which is what happened in 1997 sadly the alternative leaves much to be desired at the moment, but we can all live in hope that it will sort itself out in the not too distant future!

[Mr1Croft]

I thought May had promised to maintain workers rights a couple of years ago? So having been exposed as not protecting workers rights she want to legislate to protect rights that should already be protected.

What is to stop a Conservative party in the future trashing this, nothing, without the protection of the EU workers will be in a weakened state subjected to greedy employers forcing wages and conditions down once again.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/06/may-to-woo-labour-with-law-giving-uk-workers-same-rights-as-in-eu

Back in 2016

''Doubts cast on Theresa May's pledge to protect workers' rights post-Brexit''

''The prime minister made a pledge to stick to EU protections such as guarantees of paid holiday, maternity and paternity rights and time off in between shifts. But an examination of her past statements on workers’ rights reveals that she repeatedly attacked the then Labour government’s decision to sign up to the EU’s social chapter when the Conservatives were in opposition''

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/nov/07/doubts-cast-on-theresa-mays-pledge-to-protect-workers-rights-post-brexit

Sydney we live in a Democracy once we are free of the shackles enforced on us by the Twits in Brussels we can choose our own destiny,if The Maybot does not live up to our expectations we can vote Her party out of power which is what happened in 1997 sadly the alternative leaves much to be desired at the moment, but we can all live in hope that it will sort itself out in the not too distant future!

Sproty,

Can you give me one example of what freedom you don't personally enjoy because of the 'shackles enforced on us by the Twits in Brussels'.

However, if you wrote the above in satire. It's very good.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fascinating, seeing the response from Brexiters to Tusk's comments today.

How it doesn't help.

How it's discourteous. Spiteful even.

How it shows that we should be rid of these bullies.

All those responses are underpinned by a very particular viewpoint.

That it's all about us.

That it's our response and our feelings and our pride that matters. That the EU leaders should take into account what we Brits feel, before speak.

But here's a funny thing. There's 27 other countries and 450 million people who are staying in the EU.

Maybe, just maybe, Tusk was also communicating his exasperation to THEM, given that he's had to deal with our bunch of maniacs for 2 years.

Maybe he's talking to the other 450million people. Pointing out to the rest of the EU, the clusterf**k you lead your country into if you listen to the bullshit and the bluster and the bravado that convinced folk to vote for Brexit?

See, cos when our politicians chuck nasty insults at Brussels, we Brits assume they are communicating to us. We don't talk much about the effect those words have on opinions in the rest of Europe. But when Tusk or Juncker speak, we assume they also are aiming their words at us, not at the rest of the EU.

It's a peculiar form of narcissism.

Maybe, just maybe, there's other folk out there. Not just us Brits. That would be a thing, wouldn't it?

[SydneyRover]

I thought May had promised to maintain workers rights a couple of years ago? So having been exposed as not protecting workers rights she want to legislate to protect rights that should already be protected.

What is to stop a Conservative party in the future trashing this, nothing, without the protection of the EU workers will be in a weakened state subjected to greedy employers forcing wages and conditions down once again.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/06/may-to-woo-labour-with-law-giving-uk-workers-same-rights-as-in-eu

Back in 2016

''Doubts cast on Theresa May's pledge to protect workers' rights post-Brexit''

''The prime minister made a pledge to stick to EU protections such as guarantees of paid holiday, maternity and paternity rights and time off in between shifts. But an examination of her past statements on workers’ rights reveals that she repeatedly attacked the then Labour government’s decision to sign up to the EU’s social chapter when the Conservatives were in opposition''

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/nov/07/doubts-cast-on-theresa-mays-pledge-to-protect-workers-rights-post-brexit

Sydney we live in a Democracy once we are free of the shackles enforced on us by the Twits in Brussels we can choose our own destiny,if The Maybot does not live up to our expectations we can vote Her party out of power which is what happened in 1997 sadly the alternative leaves much to be desired at the moment, but we can all live in hope that it will sort itself out in the not too distant future!

Sproty,

Can you give me one example of what freedom you don't personally enjoy because of the 'shackles enforced on us by the Twits in Brussels'.

However, if you wrote the above in satire. It's very good.

Is it irony Sproty? cause the "twits in Brussels'' is us, twits-r-us, because we as a member nation were party to the plans, we have as much a say as any other nation.

[DonnyOsmond]

I thought May had promised to maintain workers rights a couple of years ago? So having been exposed as not protecting workers rights she want to legislate to protect rights that should already be protected.

What is to stop a Conservative party in the future trashing this, nothing, without the protection of the EU workers will be in a weakened state subjected to greedy employers forcing wages and conditions down once again.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/06/may-to-woo-labour-with-law-giving-uk-workers-same-rights-as-in-eu

Back in 2016

''Doubts cast on Theresa May's pledge to protect workers' rights post-Brexit''

''The prime minister made a pledge to stick to EU protections such as guarantees of paid holiday, maternity and paternity rights and time off in between shifts. But an examination of her past statements on workers’ rights reveals that she repeatedly attacked the then Labour government’s decision to sign up to the EU’s social chapter when the Conservatives were in opposition''

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/nov/07/doubts-cast-on-theresa-mays-pledge-to-protect-workers-rights-post-brexit

Sydney we live in a Democracy once we are free of the shackles enforced on us by the Twits in Brussels we can choose our own destiny,if The Maybot does not live up to our expectations we can vote Her party out of power which is what happened in 1997 sadly the alternative leaves much to be desired at the moment, but we can all live in hope that it will sort itself out in the not too distant future!

This kind of post always makes me laugh. The vast majority of laws past we actually have happily voted with the EU to bring in. Were then looking at copying and pasting these same rules going forward. Then you have companies in the US that when Brexit happens are hoping to influence changes in our laws on animal welfare and food standards for the worse.

[DonnyOsmond]

Wow, tusk, wow.
The childish ramblings of a desparate man, trying to hold together a failing political empire.

29th of March is gonna be sweet.

It's true though? No Brexiteer has ever offered a solution or any ideas to the problem. They're all in hiding and ready to moan when it doesn't go their way.

[SydneyRover]

I thought May had promised to maintain workers rights a couple of years ago? So having been exposed as not protecting workers rights she want to legislate to protect rights that should already be protected.

What is to stop a Conservative party in the future trashing this, nothing, without the protection of the EU workers will be in a weakened state subjected to greedy employers forcing wages and conditions down once again.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/06/may-to-woo-labour-with-law-giving-uk-workers-same-rights-as-in-eu

Back in 2016

''Doubts cast on Theresa May's pledge to protect workers' rights post-Brexit''

''The prime minister made a pledge to stick to EU protections such as guarantees of paid holiday, maternity and paternity rights and time off in between shifts. But an examination of her past statements on workers’ rights reveals that she repeatedly attacked the then Labour government’s decision to sign up to the EU’s social chapter when the Conservatives were in opposition''

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/nov/07/doubts-cast-on-theresa-mays-pledge-to-protect-workers-rights-post-brexit

Sydney we live in a Democracy once we are free of the shackles enforced on us by the Twits in Brussels we can choose our own destiny,if The Maybot does not live up to our expectations we can vote Her party out of power which is what happened in 1997 sadly the alternative leaves much to be desired at the moment, but we can all live in hope that it will sort itself out in the not too distant future!

This kind of post always makes me laugh. The vast majority of laws past we actually have happily voted with the EU to bring in. Were then looking at copying and pasting these same rules going forward. Then you have companies in the US that when Brexit happens are hoping to influence changes in our laws on animal welfare and food standards for the worse.

As a postscript May should not have to woo anyone to proclaim workers rights, workers rights should be written in stone as a non  negotiable part of our society.

[Donnywolf]

Wow, tusk, wow.
The childish ramblings of a desparate man, trying to hold together a failing political empire.

29th of March is gonna be sweet.

It's true though? No Brexiteer has ever offered a solution or any ideas to the problem. They're all in hiding and ready to moan when it doesn't go their way.

Dont forget they DID have plans initially - like how much they would give the NHS - where they kindly painted it on a Bus for us all to see

How they would reclaim all our Borders and "curb" the immigration

How they would make us great again

How doing a Trade deal would be "as easy as sliced bread" ( Dr Weasel oops Fox )

Wonder what happened between then and now ? As you say they have turned into Chameleons and vanished or like Gove have morphed into something different while keeping his own future "alive"

[BillyStubbsTears]

Good to see Corbyn sticking firm to Labour party policy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

For the record, Labour's agreed policy at conference last year was.

Should Parliament vote down a Tory Brexit deal or the talks end in no-deal, Conference believes this would constitute a loss of confidence in the Government. In these circumstances, the best outcome for the country is an immediate General Election that can sweep the Tories from power.

If we cannot get a general election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote. If the Government is confident in negotiating a deal that working people, our economy and communities will benefit from they should not be afraid to put that deal to the public.

Corbyn's letter last night drives a coach and horses through that second paragraph.

Odd isn't it? Corbyn has spent his life pushing the Bennite idea that Labour members should determine policy, and that Labour leaders should follow that policy. Surely, he didn't mean that only applies when Labour's members vehemently disagree with HIM?

[SydneyRover]

Good to see Corbyn sticking firm to Labour party policy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

For the record, Labour's agreed policy at conference last year was.

Should Parliament vote down a Tory Brexit deal or the talks end in no-deal, Conference believes this would constitute a loss of confidence in the Government. In these circumstances, the best outcome for the country is an immediate General Election that can sweep the Tories from power.

If we cannot get a general election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote. If the Government is confident in negotiating a deal that working people, our economy and communities will benefit from they should not be afraid to put that deal to the public.

Corbyn's letter last night drives a coach and horses through that second paragraph.

Odd isn't it? Corbyn has spent his life pushing the Bennite idea that Labour members should determine policy, and that Labour leaders should follow that policy. Surely, he didn't mean that only applies when Labour's members vehemently disagree with HIM?

Corbyn says for labor support: the changes to the political declaration must include:

    A “permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union”, including a say in future trade deals.

    Close alignment with the single market, underpinned by “shared institutions”.

    “Dynamic alignment on rights and protections”, so that UK standards do not fall behind those of the EU.

    Clear commitments on future UK participation in EU agencies and funding programmes.

    Unambiguous agreements on future security arrangements, such as use of the European arrest warrant.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/06/corbyn-lays-out-labours-terms-for-backing-may-on-brexit

[Glyn_Wigley]

Good to see Corbyn sticking firm to Labour party policy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

For the record, Labour's agreed policy at conference last year was.

Should Parliament vote down a Tory Brexit deal or the talks end in no-deal, Conference believes this would constitute a loss of confidence in the Government. In these circumstances, the best outcome for the country is an immediate General Election that can sweep the Tories from power.

If we cannot get a general election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote. If the Government is confident in negotiating a deal that working people, our economy and communities will benefit from they should not be afraid to put that deal to the public.

Corbyn's letter last night drives a coach and horses through that second paragraph.

Odd isn't it? Corbyn has spent his life pushing the Bennite idea that Labour members should determine policy, and that Labour leaders should follow that policy. Surely, he didn't mean that only applies when Labour's members vehemently disagree with HIM?

I'd have said that Corbyn's letter is one of those options ion the table.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes Glyn, but it's interesting that he can't bring himself to so much as mention the one option specifically named in that resolution.

Meanwhile...https://mobile.twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1093244208750587905

As I've been saying for 2 years, Corbyn's nightmare is when he has to decide what he actually stands for on Brexit. The polling strength of  Labour over the past 2 years (such as it is, and it's not much when against The Worst Govt In History) has been based on a con. It's been based on Corbyn's prevarication allowing both Leave and Remain Labour supporters to think that he's on their side.

This was always a fragile position. When Labour finally comes out one way or another, they lose support. It's just that if they come out in favour of facilitating Brexiters (and let's be grown up - we all KNOW that's what Corbyn has wanted for 40 years) the loss of support will be devastating. As bad as the Iraq War for New Labour. As bad as Tuition Fees for the LDs.

A reight bleeding mess.

[The Red Baron]

Wow, tusk, wow.
The childish ramblings of a desparate man, trying to hold together a failing political empire.

29th of March is gonna be sweet.

Funny how you didn't notice the insults he gave the Remainers.

I did. He seems to have given up on them, which probably explains his frustration. That said, I don't think Tusk's remarks were wise. The temperature hardly needs raising, and he's allowed the Brexiteers to say "I told you so."

[The Red Baron]

Good to see Corbyn sticking firm to Labour party policy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

For the record, Labour's agreed policy at conference last year was.

Should Parliament vote down a Tory Brexit deal or the talks end in no-deal, Conference believes this would constitute a loss of confidence in the Government. In these circumstances, the best outcome for the country is an immediate General Election that can sweep the Tories from power.

If we cannot get a general election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote. If the Government is confident in negotiating a deal that working people, our economy and communities will benefit from they should not be afraid to put that deal to the public.

Corbyn's letter last night drives a coach and horses through that second paragraph.

Odd isn't it? Corbyn has spent his life pushing the Bennite idea that Labour members should determine policy, and that Labour leaders should follow that policy. Surely, he didn't mean that only applies when Labour's members vehemently disagree with HIM?

One of Keir Starmer's lieutenants has now said that if May fails to respond to Corbyn's proposal they will push for a second vote. Clarification, maybe, but you have to wonder why Corbyn's letter didn't include that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

As I said, we're looking at this and judging what he should and shouldn't say from the UK end of a very long telescope.

It's not all about us...

[The Red Baron]

I think Corbyn's intervention means Tusk's remarks will soon be forgotten. He seems to have upset his Remainers while not satisfying those who want Norway-Plus.

[BillyStubbsTears]

As I also say TRB, there are days I wonder if Corbyn is a long term plant by the Tories to destroy the Labour party.

Back in December, a YG poll said Labour support drops from 36% to 22% if they support Brexit in a GE. A couple of days later, Corbyn writes a piece in the papers saying he wants a GE and he would campaign supporting Brexit.

Last week, the TSSA had polling done which they passed onto Momentum. It said that supporting Leave would be as bad for Labour as the Iraq War. A few days later, Corbyn writes a letter to May offering a process by which Labour will facilitate Leave.

It's utterly perverse.

But if course, those who have drunk the Holy Water of the Church of the Blessed St Jeremy are certain it's a brilliantly conceived plan to...

...well it doesn't matter what it's designed to do. It's Jeremy's idea therefore it must be infallible.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Pretty grim report by the Bank of England today.

GDP is 1.5% lower now than they had predicted it would be by now, back in early 2016.

And that anemic growth that we have had is rapidly slowing. Growth in 2019 is predicted to be the lowest since the Great Recession.

1/4 chance of a recession, even if we have a sensible, orderly Brexit. That prospect goes up significantly with No Deal.

Only 50% of firms are prepared for No Deal. Of those, being "prepared" means doing what they can to mitigate the worst of the effects.

There you go lads. That's what you've foisted on the country.

Congratu-f**king-lations.

[Pancho Regan]

I might be wrong but I feel that hopes of a second referendum are dwindling by the day.

I just don't see it happening now.

[wing commander]

Pretty grim report by the Bank of England today.

GDP is 1.5% lower now than they had predicted it would be by now, back in early 2016.

And that anemic growth that we have had is rapidly slowing. Growth in 2019 is predicted to be the lowest since the Great Recession.

1/4 chance of a recession, even if we have a sensible, orderly Brexit. That prospect goes up significantly with No Deal.

Only 50% of firms are prepared for No Deal. Of those, being "prepared" means doing what they can to mitigate the worst of the effects.

There you go lads. That's what you've foisted on the country.

Congratu-f**king-lations.

   Of course you could counter that argument by looking at the other eu economy's..Germany has today reduced it's growth forcast by 45%,a massive amount..A latest Poll in France indicates 40% would now back leave if they had a refendum tomorrow,which is also a massive jump...
   We can all taylor figures to suit our views bst

[The Red Baron]

I might be wrong but I feel that hopes of a second referendum are dwindling by the day.

I just don't see it happening now.

I've thought so ever since Corbyn lost his No-Confidence vote the other week. That was the moment for the Labour Front Bench to swing behind Ref2, on the basis there wasn't going to be a General Election any time soon.

Although I think from a practical point of view there would be no consensus about what should go on the ballot paper.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wing Co

Aye but that misses a rather large point.

For 2.5 years since the vote, the rest of the world has enjoyed a boom while our growth has stagnated. They've all been getting richer while we stood still.

That was never going to go on forever. Booms never do. Now here comes the global slowdown and it's going to hit us just like it'll hit everyone else. Except harder, because we haven't had the proceeds of the boom to cushion the effect.

It's all out there. Established fact.  No one is lifting your shirt over this.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wing I

Here you go by the way. This is what has happened to European economies over the past few years.



We've averaged about 1% lower growth than the EU since 2016, having been in better shape than them before that.

1% lower GDP growth for 3 years means that we have already lost £60bn of growth. And for every year that we don't pick up, we'll lose a further £30bn.

You're a business man. Don't those numbers appal you?

[albie]

BST,

The point about the 5 conditions letter from Corbyn to May is that it is strategic.

The goal is political, to either break the logjam, or demonstrate before the next meaningful vote that the HoC must take control from May.

May cannot meet the terms with her current deal, and to change her position to do so means she must face down the ERG.

See it as a move in the chess game to create a new range of options next round.

[Donnywolf]

Why do people (MPs mainly) insist on calling the 2016 Referendum "extremely decisive" or " it produced a large majority" or even worse " it was the largest democratic excerise the UK has ever undertaken and 17'4 million people voted overwhelmingly to Leave"

OK so Remain won but those criteria above go nowhere near the reality.

The Vote was divisive - the Vote was close. Thats my take and I have never changed my mind

[SydneyRover]

Wing I

Here you go by the way. This is what has happened to European economies over the past few years.



We've averaged about 1% lower growth than the EU since 2016, having been in better shape than them before that.

1% lower GDP growth for 3 years means that we have already lost £60bn of growth. And for every year that we don't pick up, we'll lose a further £30bn.

You're a business man. Don't those numbers appal you?

"Forget new trade deals – Britain’s struggling to keep the ones it has''

Anyone still labouring under the misapprehension that the UK will in any way shape or form be better off following brexit should  tell us how that could possibly happen, there is no light at the end of the tunnel, there is no pot of gold, there are no rewards, just about everything in everyone's lives will be affected-for the worse. The house of cards is on fire.

As the deadline rushes up and reality bites and the truth is revealed absolute chaos.

“Global Britain” advocates often fail to acknowledge the long list of countries the UK already has free trade agreements (FTAs) with, by virtue of its EU membership. The EU’s trade partners include Turkey, Israel, Morocco, South Korea, South Africa, Chile, Mexico and, more recently, Canada and Japan

And these agreements matter to British business: up to 15% of UK exports are to countries the EU already has a trade agreement with. It is of little surprise that the Brexit priority for most British businesses – after securing a deep relationship with the UK’s most important trading partner, the EU – is not future free trade agreements with the US, New Zealand and others, but replacing those that already exist''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/07/trade-deals-britain-liam-fox-brexit

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie
Yeah. I'll buy that. I've seen that argument doing the rounds.

Big problem for Labour though, is the message it is sending to its supporters and members, most of whom are very much against Brexit. Corbyn's approval ratings are dropping through the floor and are now at levels which are lower than Hague, Major or Brown had at their lowest points. That's not entirely due to Brexiters (Salisbury and anti-Semitism played a part too) but his appearance of going in a different direction on Brexiters than his members and party supporters is becoming crippling. See that TSSA poll for example.

The image of him being a Brexiters facilitator is getting hard baked. It's a very serious problem going forward. Even if he truly is playing a very sophisticated game here (which, frankly, I doubt).