Brexit deal

[RedJ]

Well, well, well. I missed this little gem three years back.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017.amp

How could you have missed that? I've posted links to or at least referenced this on every Brexit thread so far, I'd say a few times as well.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What May is offering to the whole of Y&H is 1/3rd of what the EU was about to plough into South Yorkshire alone, every year for the next 7 years.

Still. We took back control, eh?

[BillyStubbsTears]

RedJ

What I'd missed was his specific comment on a 52-48 result.

[RedJ]

Aye, that's the reason I kept bringing it up when people go on about accepting the result.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Apologies for missing that RedJ

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

What May is offering to the whole of Y&H is 1/3rd of what the EU was about to plough into South Yorkshire alone, every year for the next 7 years.

Still. We took back control, eh?

The question is, is this it or is there more to come?  That's a defining question that can be spun by any party.....

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well BFYP, there's been sod all invested in SY by this Govt for the past 9 years. You reckon they are going to find 70 times the amount they announced last night? Cos that's what it would take to match what we were about to get in EU structural funds.

[Glyn_Wigley]

What May is offering to the whole of Y&H is 1/3rd of what the EU was about to plough into South Yorkshire alone, every year for the next 7 years.

Still. We took back control, eh?

The question is, is this it or is there more to come?  That's a defining question that can be spun by any party.....

The bigger question is can anybody trust a word of any of her promises in the slightest going on her current record?

[Donnywolf]

Latest Poll of Labour voters in Yorkshire says that 82% of them as against 18% would vote Remain in a second Referendum if they get the chance
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/politics/labour-voters-across-yorkshire-overwhelmingly-back-corbyn-on-supporting-a-people-s-vote-1-9628464?fbclid=IwAR0Yokjc3cQ_EWdJNdvfPJO90X-z69dqlI4pyMgvAatzX8XqsG9u2edHiXQ

Theresa May will stick to her line I suppose and say whenever I knock on peoples doors they just say one thing (NO not that) - please just get on with it. I have seen no great evidence of people actually even talking about a second vote
* Never mind "Flinty" will still be in the 18%. Donny probably wont get any of the Bribe money either as she is already on the Leave side so doesnt need inducements to Vote for Mobots deal

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It would be interesting to see what the same results would be across all voters. Polling one party is meaningless.

BST I somewhat agree with you. Funding for this area could be better.  But when it does come it is often focussed on the wrong things.

[Donnywolf]

Mrs Wolfie has it covered. According to her we should have a Vote to see if we want a Second vote !

[wilts rover]

That's a valid point BFYP.

It is however totally irelevant when put up against Billy's earlier point that if you are not going to get the money in the first place - then it's pointless worrying about if it's being spent in the right way or not.

May has promised £1.7 billion spread over 7 years for the whole of the north.

The EU would have spent E13 billion in the same period
https://cpmr.org/cohesion/cpmr-analysis-uk-to-lose-e13bn-regional-funding-post-brexit/20525/

That's not spin. It's fact.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

I agree. But that's secondary. The important thing is spending.

Basic economics shows that in a depressed economy, spending Govt money is THE way to kick start things. It sounds stupid but it doesn't actually matter what you spend it on. The key is to get people working, get money in their pockets and get them spending. The effect of that is to lift the entire economy.

Of course it's even better if you spend that on infrastructure or education that lays the foundation for future prosperity.

There is absolutely no excuse for not spending on HS3 for example. Or electrifying the route from Leeds to Sheffield and the Midlands. Or a link from ECML to Donny airport. It's utterly, boneheadedly stupid that the Govt isn't investing in that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bang on Wilts. The £197m for the whole of Y&H over 7 years is, frankly, insulting. Less that a fiver per person per year.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BFYP

I agree. But that's secondary. The important thing is spending.

Basic economics shows that in a depressed economy, spending Govt money is THE way to kick start things. It sounds stupid but it doesn't actually matter what you spend it on. The key is to get people working, get money in their pockets and get them spending. The effect of that is to lift the entire economy.

Of course it's even better if you spend that on infrastructure or education that lays the foundation for future prosperity.

There is absolutely no excuse for not spending on HS3 for example. Or electrifying the route from Leeds to Sheffield and the Midlands. Or a link from ECML to Donny airport. It's utterly, boneheadedly stupid that the Govt isn't investing in that.

I don't agree that leaving the EU and the spending reduction have to be linked though, it is government choice that is rightly criticised and should become a much bigger election issue next time round.

As for the second point, scrap HS2 at least past Birmingham, upgrade the Midland line and build HS3 or at least something better trans-pennine.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

So you think that after we've left the EU, taken a significant and long term hit to the economy, and become much poorer than we other wise would have been, a Govt that has shown zero interest in investing in the North will invest in the North?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BFYP

So you think that after we've left the EU, taken a significant and long term hit to the economy, and become much poorer than we other wise would have been, a Govt that has shown zero interest in investing in the North will invest in the North?

No I do not, but they should do this is my point...

[RedJ]

BFYP

So you think that after we've left the EU, taken a significant and long term hit to the economy, and become much poorer than we other wise would have been, a Govt that has shown zero interest in investing in the North will invest in the North?

No I do not, but they should do this is my point...

Ah, well that settles it...

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

They never will, because they do not understand textbook undergraduate economics.

The Tory party has allowed a particular strain of ideology to trump one of the most fundamental, and well-established concepts in economics. They are obsessed with the idea of shrinking the role of the State. They have been for half a century or so, since the extreme free market nutters at the Institute of Economic Affairs (funded by...well, who knows..they refuse to publish the information) took control of Tory party economic ideology.

The Tory party now, as a matter of principle, refuses to countenance the possibility that the State has a beneficial role to play in the  economic well-being of the country. That was the principle behind the utter madness of Austerity in the depths of the worst slump since the 1930s.

That is why we've had the worst recovery from recession for 200 years.

That is why there is so much frustration that t**ts like Farage were able to capitalise on.

That is why we've had the self-harm of Brexit.

There's not a chance in a million that the Tory party as currently constituted will come back to sense and realise what Government could and should be doing to develop our country. It's deeply ironic. Labour has a Marxist Chancellor who understands how the capitalist economy works, far better than the people who are supposed to be the party of capitalism.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Phew! The political collossus that is Chris Grayling fights back.

Forget the shambolic handling of the Brexit cross-channel freight issue, or the probation system disaster that he over saw. Now he's going to single-handedly take on and conquer the biggest threat to civilisation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47456004

[BillyStubbsTears]

This one smells fishier than Grimsby in a heatwave.

https://twitter.com/DeidreBrock/status/1103287091813863425

[wilts rover]

Just to confirm that Brexit has sent everything completely mad in British politics, it's being reported in the press that the committed markist and anti-capitalist danger to British society, Jeremy Corbyn has had constructive talks with the bloke who came up with many of the right wing policies he despises, Oliver Letwin, advisor to Thatcher, architect of the poll tax and advocate of NHS privatisation among other causes.

I am now going to check again that those reports are true and we haven't yet landed on 1st April....

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's not April 1st Wilts. That's after March 29th. We'll be eating the Internet then cos there'll be nowt in the shops.

[Donnywolf]

Phew! The political collossus that is Chris Grayling fights back.

Forget the shambolic handling of the Brexit cross-channel freight issue, or the probation system disaster that he over saw. Now he's going to single-handedly take on and conquer the biggest threat to civilisation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47456004

While he has to defend the fact then the longer trains due to assist in alleviating "overcrowding" on Leeds to Mcr as part of the Northern Powerhouse wont now be introduced till 2021

The Trains will be ready (they will have to be as the Pacers surely will have fallen apart) but they cant be used because Leeds Platform lengthening project is (fanfare) duh duh duh derrrrrrrrrrrrr is nowhere near ready and wont be done for then

[Not Now Kato]

This one smells fishier than Grimsby in a heatwave.

https://twitter.com/DeidreBrock/status/1103287091813863425

Indeed.  Saw that live yesterday.  Deidre was clearly adamant that the Minister for the Constitution had NOT written to her and thus intimated that either TM was lying or that she'd been lied to.  Whichever, a sad reflection on our current government and the sorry mess that Brexit has turned out to be.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Line I heard was that she HAD had a reply, but it was all boilerplate evasion and didn't address the specific questions.

Which are, to remind folk, that a company which has regularly boasted of being able to (illegally) harvest social media data to (illegally) send micro-targetted lies to people judged to be susceptible in order to (illegally) affect election results and which was (illegally) paid to do all that in the Brexit campaign by the Leave side has been invited into Downing Street for discussions. And the PM refuses point blank to explain why. Even though she is duty bound to explain to Parliament why her officials meet with external visitors.

This stinks to high heaven.

[RedJ]

And we're just over three weeks away from the exit date and we still haven't got a f**king clue what's going on.

[Not Now Kato]

[The Red Baron]

A theory about the meaningful votes next week that is doing the rounds.

On Tuesday May's Deal is rejected again, though not as heavily as last time. On Wednesday No Deal is overwhelmingly rejected - only the ERG and a few mavericks will vote in favour. On Thursday the Government allows a free vote on the extension to Article 50 and it passes.

May then goes cap in hand to Brussels and the EU "reluctantly" agrees to an extension of four weeks. In early April there is another Meaningful Vote on May's Deal but May spells it out - either vote for it or it is Leave with No Deal as the EU won't extend further.

Sounds plausible to me. The only thing that could change that scenario is if a large majority of MPs swung behind a Second Referendum and an extension of up to two years. But I can't see that happening. Supporters of the Second Referendum in the HoC are vocal enough, but when you count them up, there's not that many.

[The Red Baron]

... And if May should pull that off, because if she manages to make her deal and No Deal the only possible outcomes, her's will pass, she will soon announce she is standing down once the Tories have chosen her successor.