Brexit deal

[The Red Baron]

No surprise from Flint that.
Only Labour new recruit tonight.

The problem is "no deal" remains the default.
Even when the HoC votes it out tomorrow, that does not bind the EU.

They are only going to extend if there is a new proposal to discuss.
So it is either Norway+, or a coming general election or Ref2.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/12/theresa-may-mps-crisis-deal-delay-brexit

1) No numbers for Ref2, at present.
2) Toxic Treeza steps down and a new leader takes over and seeks a GE mandate?
3) Or we drift on to the end of March and crash out without a deal?

Lets see if Norway+ comes out of the fog, eh!

That's a pretty good summary of where we are. I think when May goes to the EU she will be told she can have an extension, but only a lengthy one, to allow time for a General Election or another Referendum.

I don't think there is enough support in the current HoC for another Referendum. There might be following a General Election though.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Our emotional spasm in a nutshell.

A Kantor poll a couple of days ago.

Q. How important is it for you that after Brexit there is no right for EU citizens to live in the UK?
Important 46%
Not important 34%

Q. How important is it for you that, after Brexit, UK citizens have the right to live in the EU?
Important 56%
Not important 24%


You know what? Anyone who talks about respecting The Will of The People can f**k right off, because the Will of The People is batshit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You'll have heard a lot of piss and wind recently about how threatening to leave with No Deal is a brilliant negotiating strategy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47551266

If we leave with No Deal, we plan to unilaterally introduce a situation where 92% of our imports from outside the EU have no tariffs. Currently, the figure is 56%.

This isn't really a choice.

We have to keep most EU trade tariff-free because it would be catastrophic to impose tariffs. Our economy is built around free trade with Europe.

But WTO rules (you'll have heard Rees-Mogg saying they're something to embrace) say that we cannot have zero tariffs with Europe and different tariffs with the rest of the world.

So, think about that.

Remember that the rest of the world will not be doing that for our exports to them.

When we do that, and then go to China, USA, Japan, India, Canada, Australia etc and ask for trade deals, what do you think they are going to say? Could it be, "Why do we need a deal? We've got a fantastic situation with you, because you let us export to you tariff-free, but we can still out tariffs on your exports to us to protect our own manufacturers."

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well. As I was saying.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1105762653794910208

Peston's usually more than 30 minutes behind me. He's on form this morning.

[Boomstick]

Our emotional spasm in a nutshell.

A Kantor poll a couple of days ago.

Q. How important is it for you that after Brexit there is no right for EU citizens to live in the UK?
Important 46%
Not important 34%

Q. How important is it for you that, after Brexit, UK citizens have the right to live in the EU?
Important 56%
Not important 24%


You know what? Anyone who talks about respecting The Will of The People can f**k right off, because the Will of The People is batshit.

Ah, you'd prefer a socialist dictator?
That's always worked well hasn't it?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Thanks BS for once again demonstrating that yawning chasm between Input and Output where most of us have logical analysis.

You:
Input: Whatever
Output: Blah, blah, blah, tired and idiotic communism, lefty, socialist insult.

What I would like (and it's a shame I have to spell it out, but I'm used to it by now) is a national debate where people are encouraged by politicians to f**king grow up and make some hard choices. Instead of what we've had for three years from Brexiters, which is that you can have everything you want, with sprinkles on top.

[DonnyOsmond]

Our emotional spasm in a nutshell.

A Kantor poll a couple of days ago.

Q. How important is it for you that after Brexit there is no right for EU citizens to live in the UK?
Important 46%
Not important 34%

Q. How important is it for you that, after Brexit, UK citizens have the right to live in the EU?
Important 56%
Not important 24%


You know what? Anyone who talks about respecting The Will of The People can f**k right off, because the Will of The People is batshit.

Have your cake and eat it.

[Boomstick]

Thanks BS for once again demonstrating that yawning chasm between Input and Output where most of us have logical analysis.

You:
Input: Whatever
Output: Blah, blah, blah, tired and idiotic communism, lefty, socialist insult.

What I would like (and it's a shame I have to spell it out, but I'm used to it by now) is a national debate where people are encouraged by politicians to f**king grow up and make some hard choices. Instead of what we've had for three years from Brexiters, which is that you can have everything you want, with sprinkles on top.

🎣

[BillyStubbsTears]

Very good! Well done!

So is that all that Brexiters have left in the tank now? Baiting the other side?

How are those party plan for 29 March coming along?

[Boomstick]

Whenever we leave, it's gonna be sweet seeing remainers pissing and bleeting about it.
There's still a very good chance that will be 29th March.

[Axholme Lion]

Whenever we leave, it's gonna be sweet seeing remainers pissing and bleeting about it.
There's still a very good chance that will be 29th March.

Well it will be their own fault. They had the chance of a deal and rejected it.

[DonnyOsmond]

Are you two Russian bots?

[MachoMadness]

It seems Malthouse is the new bit of nonsense for Mogg and his disaster capitalist friends to distract us with while they push through no deal and make millions. Malthouse is nonsense. It's like me unilaterally voting for a £300k a week pay rise. It's nonsense that the EU won't agree to, and they know it.

[Axholme Lion]

Are you two Russian bots?

No. Just normal voters who would like to see the traitors in parliament carry out the will of the people rather than fulfil their own agenda.

[DonnyOsmond]

Are you two Russian bots?

No. Just normal voters who would like to see the traitors in parliament carry out the will of the people rather than fulfil their own agenda.

How do we know the will of the people hasn't changed in two years? MPs changed their minds in the space of a few weeks, so who says that 4% lead hasn't changed in over 2 years? And before you say do we keep just having vote after vote, Theresa has had vote after vote and it'll break the impasse. There is a majority against No Deal and we will see it tonight. No sensible person wants us to actually leave with no deal, they just want it on the table as a bargaining chip.

[MachoMadness]

Interesting that the traitors in Parliament aren't the ones backing a campaign that was illegally funded by a malicious foreign power in order to line their own pockets. See, to me, that's the textbook definition of treason.

[Axholme Lion]

Are you two Russian bots?

No. Just normal voters who would like to see the traitors in parliament carry out the will of the people rather than fulfil their own agenda.

How do we know the will of the people hasn't changed in two years? MPs changed their minds in the space of a few weeks, so who says that 4% lead hasn't changed in over 2 years? And before you say do we keep just having vote after vote, Theresa has had vote after vote and it'll break the impasse. There is a majority against No Deal and we will see it tonight. No sensible person wants us to actually leave with no deal, they just want it on the table as a bargaining chip.

It interesting that on this forum which most of it's members are based in a very pro Brexit area are mainly remainers, however most of my mates in London which was a remain area are the polar opposite and are very much staunch Brexit.
What this situation clearly shows is that many MPs are totally out of touch with their constituents and come the day of the next election supporters of all parties/Brexit or remain opinion should remember if their MP acted in their interests.

[DonnyOsmond]

Are you two Russian bots?

No. Just normal voters who would like to see the traitors in parliament carry out the will of the people rather than fulfil their own agenda.

How do we know the will of the people hasn't changed in two years? MPs changed their minds in the space of a few weeks, so who says that 4% lead hasn't changed in over 2 years? And before you say do we keep just having vote after vote, Theresa has had vote after vote and it'll break the impasse. There is a majority against No Deal and we will see it tonight. No sensible person wants us to actually leave with no deal, they just want it on the table as a bargaining chip.

It interesting that on this forum which most of it's members are based in a very pro Brexit area are mainly remainers, however most of my mates in London which was a remain area are the polar opposite and are very much staunch Brexit.
What this situation clearly shows is that many MPs are totally out of touch with their constituents and come the day of the next election supporters of all parties/Brexit or remain opinion should remember if their MP acted in their interests.

There's a correlation between intelligence and whether you voted Brexit. People on here who can string two sentences together more than likely voted/want to remain. The people that can't spell their own name and aren't on here more than likely voted to leave. The education in our area had clearly let us down over the years.

[wing commander]

   it's all getting a bit tiresome isn't it..i really don't know what the answer is..These pages are full of arguments and reasoning but the reality is people have there own opinions that wont be changed now..
   Billy spends a lot of time on here explaining his well thought out thoughts on socialism but will it change my mind on it?? No because I personally don't believe it's sustainable without getting into huge debt and I've yet to see it work well enough to convince me..But I believe in democracy so if it transpires that left wing Labour get in then that's how the cooky crumbles...
   On Brexit we have May's plan that obviously wont get the backing of Parliament no matter how many times it's rolled out to vote on.On the other side weve Labours soft brexit which the EU would jump at but also will never get voted through because In reality it's a brexit in name only and the tory's would never go for that never mind the ERG...
   A no deal will be voted off today and rightly so (something most agree on) so that leaves a extension to article 50 the most likely scenario,but to what end??? it'snot as if we are even close to agreeing so what will 6 weeks help?? Plus the EU are not forced to accept that either unless they have a idea why we want one and to what end...
  The first referendum was a floored process,neither side knew the full facts on both sides of the argument,so maybe it's time I changed my mind and agree to a proper peoples vote again.However this time the ballot paper need to give more information other than a simple stay or go..So when its voted for this time there is a clear instruction on what the country wants..

[Axholme Lion]

Are you two Russian bots?

No. Just normal voters who would like to see the traitors in parliament carry out the will of the people rather than fulfil their own agenda.

How do we know the will of the people hasn't changed in two years? MPs changed their minds in the space of a few weeks, so who says that 4% lead hasn't changed in over 2 years? And before you say do we keep just having vote after vote, Theresa has had vote after vote and it'll break the impasse. There is a majority against No Deal and we will see it tonight. No sensible person wants us to actually leave with no deal, they just want it on the table as a bargaining chip.

It interesting that on this forum which most of it's members are based in a very pro Brexit area are mainly remainers, however most of my mates in London which was a remain area are the polar opposite and are very much staunch Brexit.
What this situation clearly shows is that many MPs are totally out of touch with their constituents and come the day of the next election supporters of all parties/Brexit or remain opinion should remember if their MP acted in their interests.

There's a correlation between intelligence and whether you voted Brexit. People on here who can string two sentences together more than likely voted/want to remain. The people that can't spell their own name and aren't on here more than likely voted to leave. The education in our area had clearly let us down over the years.

Are you one of these people that thinks people who went to university should get two votes because you're better than the rest of us?

[Boomstick]

He's basically saying poorer working class people have less intelligence than more affluent middle class people.
The irony is that on another thread, he would argue against this.

Typical remoaner, twisting the facts to suit their weak and failing viewpoints.

[Axholme Lion]

He's basically saying poorer working class people have less intelligence than more affluent middle class people.
The irony is that on another thread, he would argue against this.

Typical remoaner, twisting the facts to suit their weak and failing viewpoints.

I'm proud to be working class. I never went to university as we couldn't afford anything like that, but it never stopped me picking up a book to widen my knowledge. The middle classes really get up my wick looking down their nose at Mr Average when most of what they have is handed down by mummy and daddy.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Are you two Russian bots?

No. Just normal voters who would like to see the traitors in parliament carry out the will of the people rather than fulfil their own agenda.

How do we know the will of the people hasn't changed in two years? MPs changed their minds in the space of a few weeks, so who says that 4% lead hasn't changed in over 2 years? And before you say do we keep just having vote after vote, Theresa has had vote after vote and it'll break the impasse. There is a majority against No Deal and we will see it tonight. No sensible person wants us to actually leave with no deal, they just want it on the table as a bargaining chip.

It interesting that on this forum which most of it's members are based in a very pro Brexit area are mainly remainers, however most of my mates in London which was a remain area are the polar opposite and are very much staunch Brexit.
What this situation clearly shows is that many MPs are totally out of touch with their constituents and come the day of the next election supporters of all parties/Brexit or remain opinion should remember if their MP acted in their interests.

So you think that Teresa May should have voted in the Commons the same way her constituents voted in the referendum. I'd have loved to have watched that happen for the past two years. Entertainment Gold.

[The Red Baron]

See my posting of 7th March. I don't think May accepts her deal is dead. If, as I expect, the EU27 play hard-ball over an extension, she will bring it back and say it's my deal or No Deal.

[BillyStubbsTears]

He's basically saying poorer working class people have less intelligence than more affluent middle class people.
The irony is that on another thread, he would argue against this.

Typical remoaner, twisting the facts to suit their weak and failing viewpoints.

I'm proud to be working class. I never went to university as we couldn't afford anything like that, but it never stopped me picking up a book to widen my knowledge. The middle classes really get up my wick looking down their nose at Mr Average when most of what they have is handed down by mummy and daddy.

But you side with Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Remind me again what the definition of Treason is.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1105795719720505345

Not that Treason would be unusual from Banks and Farage.

See, my memory's not what it was, but I'm sure the aim of Leave was for the UK to take back control as a sovereign nation, and not be held to ransom by foreign bas**rds.

By the way. Here's a thing. Salvini has also been negotiating with Putin for Kremlin money. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

[The Red Baron]

Spelman-Dromey amendment passed. So No Deal is ruled out, at least as far as the HoC is concerned.

[MachoMadness]

You couldn't make it up. Cue Brexiters on this thread completely ignoring that point and focusing on that time a Remainer said something mean to them once so the whole thing is justified.

No-deal Brexit is provisionally off the table now, at least, although by a worryingly fine margin.

[The Red Baron]

Malthouse Compromise amendment heavily defeated. The EU didn't have any interest in it, so it wouldn't have offered a solution.

[The Red Baron]

Apparently the Government is now telling Tory MPs to vote against its own amended motion!