Brexit deal

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Jesus wept.

It now turns out that she's asked for an extension to 30 June, after being told by Juncker that the choices were a) extension to 23 May (before the European elections) or b) Extension into 2020 to give us time to sort out shit out.

Is she actually clinically insane?

Don't forget that Labour also believe the end of June is the date to extend to.....

Interesting point on France though, that may give us effectively 9 days to have a deal or leave on no deal regardless of what parliament says....

[tommy toes]

  I'm beginning to actually believe a lot of you take pleasure in the uk's predicament just so you can lambast the Tory's and May..Which I believe is Labours plan as well in the forlorn hope they can get a GE..
   personally I don't give 2 hoots what the EU want..I want what's best for the UK..

Too right they are. The remainers are responsible for the position we are in. As soon as the referendum result was announced they have done their utmost to undermine the government and sabotage every move made in their attempts to thwart Brexit. The amusing thing would be to see the outcome of their activities resulting in the default of a no deal Brexit. That really would be worth buying tickets to see.

I sometimes wonder if you are just a WUM Axholme.
You must realise by now that it is Tory MP's in the ERG who are the shiit stirrers. It's them who've consistently undermined TM while she has tried everything to appease them while ignoring what's best for the country in all this.

[MachoMadness]

He's a Millwall fan who posts every day on the off-topic forum of a football club in the league below his. Yes, he's a WUM.

[Boomstick]

You know what? It's a sad statement on where discussion has got to when a smart bloke like Wing Co thinks that any of us are taking pleasure in seeing our country humiliate itself like this, and run the risk of stumbling into economic catastrophe.

Isn't it possible for intelligent, honest  people to disagree without being seen as simply wanting to win an argument?

Intelligent and honest people can disagree, but intelligent honest people give alternatives too.
You lot don't, just moan and criticise and don't come up with realistic alternatives.

[MachoMadness]

You know what? It's a sad statement on where discussion has got to when a smart bloke like Wing Co thinks that any of us are taking pleasure in seeing our country humiliate itself like this, and run the risk of stumbling into economic catastrophe.

Isn't it possible for intelligent, honest  people to disagree without being seen as simply wanting to win an argument?

Intelligent and honest people can disagree, but intelligent honest people give alternatives too.
You lot don't, just moan and criticise and don't come up with realistic alternatives.

Soft Brexit as part of a customs union
Revoke article 50 for a period until we know what the f**k is happening, then invoke it again
Second referendum in light of illegal foreign money pumped into the leave campaign, nobody knowing what the f**k is going on, a clearer idea of the facts now, etc etc

All of these ideas have been put forward repeatedly since the vote. The only reason they aren't "realistic" is because the hard-right lunatics running the country won't listen to them.

[Axholme Lion]

You know what? It's a sad statement on where discussion has got to when a smart bloke like Wing Co thinks that any of us are taking pleasure in seeing our country humiliate itself like this, and run the risk of stumbling into economic catastrophe.

Isn't it possible for intelligent, honest  people to disagree without being seen as simply wanting to win an argument?

Intelligent and honest people can disagree, but intelligent honest people give alternatives too.
You lot don't, just moan and criticise and don't come up with realistic alternatives.

Soft Brexit as part of a customs union
Revoke article 50 for a period until we know what the f**k is happening, then invoke it again
Second referendum in light of illegal foreign money pumped into the leave campaign, nobody knowing what the f**k is going on, a clearer idea of the facts now, etc etc

All of these ideas have been put forward repeatedly since the vote. The only reason they aren't "realistic" is because the hard-right lunatics running the country won't listen to them.

Doesn't a customs union prevent us from striking up trade deals with the rest of the world though thereby shackling us to the EU forever?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

All largely irrelevant given the EU seem to have said May passes a deal next week or no extension.  They also won't open up the WA so no deal is getting far too bloody close!

[wilts rover]

Rumours that May has called a meeting with Corbyn and other party leaders at 6.00pm and will then give a statement to the nation at 8.00pm. What's she going to discuss and say?

Pass her deal on condition it goes for a referrendum? If it fails she will call a GE?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

With her anything is possible. If her past speeches are to go by she won't say a lot.

[GazLaz]

Rumours that May has called a meeting with Corbyn and other party leaders at 6.00pm and will then give a statement to the nation at 8.00pm. What's she going to discuss and say?

Pass her deal on condition it goes for a referrendum? If it fails she will call a GE?

She will just ask them to vote for her deal... again.

[MachoMadness]

Hasn't Bercow already ruled out MV3 on May's deal?

[DonnyOsmond]

You know what? It's a sad statement on where discussion has got to when a smart bloke like Wing Co thinks that any of us are taking pleasure in seeing our country humiliate itself like this, and run the risk of stumbling into economic catastrophe.

Isn't it possible for intelligent, honest  people to disagree without being seen as simply wanting to win an argument?

Intelligent and honest people can disagree, but intelligent honest people give alternatives too.
You lot don't, just moan and criticise and don't come up with realistic alternatives.

Soft Brexit as part of a customs union
Revoke article 50 for a period until we know what the f**k is happening, then invoke it again
Second referendum in light of illegal foreign money pumped into the leave campaign, nobody knowing what the f**k is going on, a clearer idea of the facts now, etc etc

All of these ideas have been put forward repeatedly since the vote. The only reason they aren't "realistic" is because the hard-right lunatics running the country won't listen to them.

Doesn't a customs union prevent us from striking up trade deals with the rest of the world though thereby shackling us to the EU forever?

No. That's the single market isn't it?

Personally I would prefer to stay in but if we are leaving then in 2016 we should have invested in training people and production, austerity ruins a successful Brexit. We should then leave with something similar to Norway, which Mays red lines ruins any chance of.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You know what? It's a sad statement on where discussion has got to when a smart bloke like Wing Co thinks that any of us are taking pleasure in seeing our country humiliate itself like this, and run the risk of stumbling into economic catastrophe.

Isn't it possible for intelligent, honest  people to disagree without being seen as simply wanting to win an argument?

Intelligent and honest people can disagree, but intelligent honest people give alternatives too.
You lot don't, just moan and criticise and don't come up with realistic alternatives.

This is a gem. I think I'm going to print it out and frame it.

I assume you've not bothered reading g the 70 pages on this thread or the 100 and odd on the other one where the pros and cons of everything from No Deal to Ref2 have been discussed to exhaustion? You see that as just moaning and criticising?

Here's the summary:
No Deal. Total freedom for us to do whatever we want trade wise and politically. But the consequence being that we have a long, slow hit to our economy over the long term, and an unknown immediate hard and sharp hit. No one suggests we can come out net positive for a generation or more. Crisis in NI. Absolutely not what anyone on the Leave side was proposing in 2016. Supported now only by people on the Far Right.

May's deal: Sorts out the Irish problem short term by tying us into the CU. Possibility of us leaving if a technical solution to NI is found in the future, but no-one knows what that is. Supported by centrist Tories. Opposed by everyone else. Still results in a long slow economic hit.

Norway+ deal: Keeps us in the SM and CU. We leave the political aspects of the EU  Minimises the economic hit. Proposed loudly and frequently by Farage in 2016. Now apparently it's a betrayal of Brexit. Possibly supported by Labour and a group of other MPs

Ref 2: Puts the question back to the people with a proper understanding of the issues,and multiple options. Difficult to implement given the number of politicians who have upped the ante by calling it a betrayal of democracy.

There you go. Take your pick. Discuss any of the above like an adult.

Or just complain that everyone who disagrees with you is a moaning traitor. Your choice.

[Ldr]

norway plus please BST

[DonnyOsmond]

Reckon Norway+ would get through?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Aye. I reckon that's probably the closest to the centre of gravity of the population's opinions.

Trouble is, the majority of the Tory party is dead set against it because they consider it to hamper Britain's ability to strike independent deals. And Corbyn is dead set against it because SM membership (he claims) would block the path to the Socialist Utopia.

And, whilst it would be the least economically damaging Brexit, it would still leave us with the relationship with the EU that some Norwegians call "Pay, Obey, No Say."

Which is why, on balance, I don't support it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Speculation that May is going to speak to the Nation at 8pm, to say that she will bring her deal back next week, and if it's defeated she will call a General Election.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Speculation that May is going to speak to the Nation at 8pm, to say that she will bring her deal back next week, and if it's defeated she will call a General Election.

If she did that I'd love to see the faces of the DUP. Do they vote against and stick to their principles or do they abandon those selfsame principles and vote in favour purely to try and cling on to the Magic Money Tree that would disappear after a General Election..?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Speculation that May is going to speak to the Nation at 8pm, to say that she will bring her deal back next week, and if it's defeated she will call a General Election.

Which is what Corbyn wanted so he will be delighted. Even more so if May is leader as I cant see how she gets the Tories back in or that they would let her.  Wouldn't they all have to agree with her to allow a general election?  In fact isn't a no confidence vote more likely than her winning a general election vote?

Amazingly Corbyn walked out of the meeting with may and opposition leaders because he didn't like who else was there.  What a chap he is...

[The Red Baron]

Unbelievable!

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1108448464462114818

[Glyn_Wigley]

Unbelievable!

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1108448464462114818

Pathetic. Student politics all over.

[Filo]

Speculation that May is going to speak to the Nation at 8pm, to say that she will bring her deal back next week, and if it's defeated she will call a General Election.

It will be just another few turns of the hamster wheel, whichever side you’re on it doesn’t matter this Country is truly f**ked!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Unbelievable!

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1108448464462114818

If that is true, in the middle of a crisis of this magnitude, it is beyond belief.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The line now is that May WON'T say anything about a GE when she speaks to the cameras at 20:15. Sounds for all the world like her office has been flying a kite to see what the response would be.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well, I've long believed that we get the politicians we deserve.

We don't deserve anything better than these two f**king idiots.
https://mobile.twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1108452803851227136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1108452803851227136&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Flive%2Fuk-politics-parliaments-47614151

[Glyn_Wigley]

May wants an all-party meeting but won't to listen to anybody.

Corbyn has said he wants to build an all-party consensus but won't talk to everybody.

What a fecking disgrace.

[Filo]

Send the tanks in

[Donnywolf]

Replying to BST #2082 above I would say let May have her deal as long as the People get a straight vote after that

Mays Deal v Remain that would sort it out for now (temporarily anyway)

[DonnyOsmond]

It'll be the same b*llocks as last time. I want to give the UK people the Brexit they voted for, etc.

[wilts rover]

Speculation that May is going to speak to the Nation at 8pm, to say that she will bring her deal back next week, and if it's defeated she will call a General Election.

I'm sure someone posted that earlier.....

Speculation now that she will just take the opportunity to appeal to us, the great British public, to put pressure on our MP's to back her deal. This is the great British public of whom only 12% support it.

Useless fact. If she appears at a podium with the PM's crest on it - its a statement on behalf of the country and she is not resigning nor calling a GE. If there is no crest on the podium she is appearing as leader of the Tory party and will be calling a GE.