Brexit deal

[BillyStubbsTears]

No mate all I’ve seen on fb is the link shared and people from Japan USA all over signing it when I would guess most don’t care, so getting 2 million people signing a petition means very little, on many of the posts there saying let’s make this the biggest petition ever so anyone and everyone is doing it

You can download the figures, there's 2 million worth of British based people then a few thousand from other countries, so if a Brit is abroad should they not be allowed to sign it?

There's a handful of fakes on there from people trying to discredit it.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1108790319603245056?s=19

of course they should have a say but as i signed it with no post code and it took me less than a minute it becomes pointless as i could create hundreds of emails and sign it hundreds of times

Yes. You COULD. And a very small number of people HAVE. But unless it is an incredibly well coordinated effort, the overwhelming majority haven't.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's a bit like being on a hamster wheel isn't it?  Same facts pointed out over and over and over again, then ignored.

AL.
I'll say it again. Nigel Farage and many others said repeatedly during the 2016 campaign that we should look at the relationship Norway had with the EU.

I'd accept that as a compromise. It's not what I want but I would accept it. It would mean us leaving the EU. It would honour the 2016 result.

Would you accept that deal?

I wouldn't be happy, but then again you wouldn't. If it was that or nothing then I would accept it in the interests of bringing the nation together and honouring the referendum result.

Right. We're finding common ground then.

What a shame that the PM didn't think of this 2 years ago, rather than interpreting a very small majority in a bad flawed vote as meaning that the country wanted a very hard Brexit.

[The Red Baron]

Interesting from Robert Peston.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-22/eu-leaders-want-rid-of-brexit-poison/

[Axholme Lion]

It's a bit like being on a hamster wheel isn't it?  Same facts pointed out over and over and over again, then ignored.

AL.
I'll say it again. Nigel Farage and many others said repeatedly during the 2016 campaign that we should look at the relationship Norway had with the EU.

I'd accept that as a compromise. It's not what I want but I would accept it. It would mean us leaving the EU. It would honour the 2016 result.

Would you accept that deal?

I wouldn't be happy, but then again you wouldn't. If it was that or nothing then I would accept it in the interests of bringing the nation together and honouring the referendum result.

Right. We're finding common ground then.

What a shame that the PM didn't think of this 2 years ago, rather than interpreting a very small majority in a bad flawed vote as meaning that the country wanted a very hard Brexit.

Maybe we should stand for parliament? 

[Not Now Kato]

AL

Actually I sympathize with and understand much of what you have said. The world is changing at breakneck speed, econicalky, technically and culturally. I understand that some people wish for a day when they felt more in control.

The problem is that you very understandable wish was weaponised by a bunch of the most unscrupulous politicians you will ever see, and used as part of their war to control the right wing of politics.

You don't believe me?

You know when Boris Johnson came out all guns blazing for Leave? Thumping the table and shouting Take Back Control?

You know before he did that, he'd written an equally strident speech in favour of Remain? He'd spent two weeks debating whether supporting Leave or Remain would be best for his career.

You've been played mate. They've taken your grievances and used them to make you vote for something that will make your kids worse off.

Of course I understand the Bojo and his ilk don't give a monkeys about the likes of us, but other than taking to the streets with an AK47 how else can things be changed other than vote for something that will really make a difference?

The difference being that you voted to give more power to the people who are already pissing you off? Nice one.

But the people in parliament aren't going to be there for ever though are they, and I would suggest that after the next GE that many of them won't be?

But you don't know that, and even then you can only affect the re-election of one MP anyway. But you still decided to give them more of the power you think they're abusing.

So what do you suggest I should do other than take part in an armed uprising? All I have is one vote which I have used.
Whatever the outcome of this, half the country is going to be pissed off. I suppose we could cut the country in half and all the remainers live in one half and brexiters in the other half which leaves the EU. It would probably be easier to sort than what has gone before.

On a separate note, am I correct in believing that after 2022 all EU members have to join the Euro currency?

Nope I think us and Denmark(?) had opt outs.

Thanks. Was not too sure about that but I seemed to remember reading something about it somewhere.

Yes, it was just another of those lies papers like the Daily Mail put out to con the public. We always had an opt out of joining the Euro.  In fact, we had the best 'deal' of any country in the EU - but then, the right wing owned media don't want you to know that, they'd rather have you believe that the EU want us to give up our 3 pin plugs, buy straight cucumbers, brew lager not bitter, and hundreds of other out and out lies that they've populated over the years.

[Axholme Lion]

AL

Actually I sympathize with and understand much of what you have said. The world is changing at breakneck speed, econicalky, technically and culturally. I understand that some people wish for a day when they felt more in control.

The problem is that you very understandable wish was weaponised by a bunch of the most unscrupulous politicians you will ever see, and used as part of their war to control the right wing of politics.

You don't believe me?

You know when Boris Johnson came out all guns blazing for Leave? Thumping the table and shouting Take Back Control?

You know before he did that, he'd written an equally strident speech in favour of Remain? He'd spent two weeks debating whether supporting Leave or Remain would be best for his career.

You've been played mate. They've taken your grievances and used them to make you vote for something that will make your kids worse off.

Of course I understand the Bojo and his ilk don't give a monkeys about the likes of us, but other than taking to the streets with an AK47 how else can things be changed other than vote for something that will really make a difference?

The difference being that you voted to give more power to the people who are already pissing you off? Nice one.

But the people in parliament aren't going to be there for ever though are they, and I would suggest that after the next GE that many of them won't be?

But you don't know that, and even then you can only affect the re-election of one MP anyway. But you still decided to give them more of the power you think they're abusing.

So what do you suggest I should do other than take part in an armed uprising? All I have is one vote which I have used.
Whatever the outcome of this, half the country is going to be pissed off. I suppose we could cut the country in half and all the remainers live in one half and brexiters in the other half which leaves the EU. It would probably be easier to sort than what has gone before.

On a separate note, am I correct in believing that after 2022 all EU members have to join the Euro currency?

Nope I think us and Denmark(?) had opt outs.

Thanks. Was not too sure about that but I seemed to remember reading something about it somewhere.

Yes, it was just another of those lies papers like the Daily Mail put out to con the public. We always had an opt out of joining the Euro.  In fact, we had the best 'deal' of any country in the EU - but then, the right wing owned media don't want you to know that, they'd rather have you believe that the EU want us to give up our 3 pin plugs, buy straight cucumbers, brew lager not bitter, and hundreds of other out and out lies that they've populated over the years.

Would we still have the opt out if it turned out that we were to remain? I suppose we would as our membership would have never been broken.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

My problem with that is the inability to independently strike our own trade deals and that is something that is important.

Going forwards politically people have to commit to something soon, it is not that difficult to make a decision.  The tories and labour appear to have then not then have then change etc and it is achieving nothing.

[Axholme Lion]

My problem with that is the inability to independently strike our own trade deals and that is something that is important.

Going forwards politically people have to commit to something soon, it is not that difficult to make a decision.  The tories and labour appear to have then not then have then change etc and it is achieving nothing.

That would be my main gripe with it too, but I was answering the question from BST which was if he could accept Norway with his pro EU views could I as a pro Brexit person accept it if this was the only way forward of achieving anything and both sides giving something to meet in the middle.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You know how I boringly keep harping on about how the Leave leaders treat their supporters like they are idiots?

Look at what they tweeted yesterday about the petition.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1108733305493614593

They compared where people come from who have signed the petition, compared to where folk come from who signed the petition for No Deal earlier in the year.

Impressive point isn't it? Support for No Deal was all over the country. Support for the Revoke petition is, as they say, just in Brighton , London and Oxbridge.

The unspoken subtext? It's the wogs, the puffs and the snooty bas**rds who are supporting this latest petition. Whereas people like YOU supported the No Deal one.

Except...

Look at the scales that they have chosen for the two maps.

And then look at the reply from Steven Bernard immediately below the Leave.EU tweet.

Like I keep saying. The leaders of Leave think you are f**king idiots who can be persuaded by this sort of mendacious b*llocks. And the Kremlin pay them to do it.

[bpoolrover]

No mate all I’ve seen on fb is the link shared and people from Japan USA all over signing it when I would guess most don’t care, so getting 2 million people signing a petition means very little, on many of the posts there saying let’s make this the biggest petition ever so anyone and everyone is doing it

You can download the figures, there's 2 million worth of British based people then a few thousand from other countries, so if a Brit is abroad should they not be allowed to sign it?

There's a handful of fakes on there from people trying to discredit it.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1108790319603245056?s=19

of course they should have a say but as i signed it with no post code and it took me less than a minute it becomes pointless as i could create hundreds of emails and sign it hundreds of times

Yes. You COULD. And a very small number of people HAVE. But unless it is an incredibly well coordinated effort, the overwhelming majority haven't.

How do you know lol

[RedJ]

Jesus wept.

[foxbat]

Manchester for Europe  🇪🇺‏ @Mcr4EU · 14m14 minutes ago 


 More
 
























just one example that proves Brexit lying again

Manchester for Europe  🇪🇺‏ @Mcr4EU · 16m minutes ago


Ooh look @MaryRobinson01 5946 of your constituents have signed the petition to #RevokeArt50 already!

( Cheadle MP , talked nothing but sh1te about the 'benefits' of leaving )

[i_ateallthepies]

My problem with that is the inability to independently strike our own trade deals and that is something that is important.

Going forwards politically people have to commit to something soon, it is not that difficult to make a decision.  The tories and labour appear to have then not then have then change etc and it is achieving nothing.

BFYP, in a negotiation which party holds the aces, the strong one or the weak one?  So, as a stand alone nation a fraction the size of the EU how do you reckon we would make trade deals better than those we already have being part of the EU?  Not complicated is it.

[foxbat]

and if you really think ' mad f@ck ' Trump will do anything other
than  @rserape this country , you are very much mistaken.

[wilts rover]

My problem with that is the inability to independently strike our own trade deals and that is something that is important.

Going forwards politically people have to commit to something soon, it is not that difficult to make a decision.  The tories and labour appear to have then not then have then change etc and it is achieving nothing.

BFYP, in a negotiation which party holds the aces, the strong one or the weak one?  So, as a stand alone nation a fraction the size of the EU how do you reckon we would make trade deals better than those we already have being part of the EU?  Not complicated is it.

That's correct pies - look at South Korea as a prime example.

We currently have a trade deal with them via the deal they did with the EU. However they have refused to roll this over after we have left because they believe they can extract more concessions from the UK.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/a-uk-korea-trade-agreement-liam-we-have-three-problems/

[DonnyOsmond]

https://twitter.com/DaftLimmy/status/1108759153013637121?s=19

[The Red Baron]

Looks like MV3 won't happen next week. Indicative votes instead, whether Government-sponsored or arranged by MPs themselves.

I would be amused if none of them got a majority, but it wouldn't help us much.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-22/pm-may-cancel-third-meaningful-vote/

[Glyn_Wigley]

Looks like MV3 won't happen next week. Indicative votes instead, whether Government-sponsored or arranged by MPs themselves.

I would be amused if none of them got a majority, but it wouldn't help us much.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-22/pm-may-cancel-third-meaningful-vote/

So much for the 'Plan A will succeed' mantra she repeatedly gave the EU leaders YESTERDAY when refusing to answer their question as to what her plan was if her deal didn't get through Parliament. They must be tearing their hair out at having to deal with this living embodiment of 'a complete waste of time'.

[Mr1Croft]

 

My problem with that is the inability to independently strike our own trade deals and that is something that is important.

Going forwards politically people have to commit to something soon, it is not that difficult to make a decision.  The tories and labour appear to have then not then have then change etc and it is achieving nothing.

The simple fact is we will never be able to strike any independent trade deal better than the ones we enjoyed as part of the EU.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Crofty

Precisely. That much is blindingly obvious.

Which makes you wonder why some many Tory grandees are insisting that black is white on that matter.

Could it be that OUR deals that made us poorer are preferable to the dirty EU deals that make us richer.

[bpoolrover]

Economists have regularly said the U.K. would be better off under the tories than labour, so going by that bst, why would you vote labour and make yourself poorer? Yes you will find ones that say otherwise but the markets and the majority say different?

[Ldr]

That's the hypocrisy of some in this thread. In party voting principles are more important than wealth. In the Brexit debate wealth is everything to them

[BillyStubbsTears]

Economists have regularly said the U.K. would be better off under the tories than labour, so going by that bst, why would you vote labour and make yourself poorer? Yes you will find ones that say otherwise but the markets and the majority say different?

Do you want to point me in the direction of some of those economists?

[Axholme Lion]

That's the hypocrisy of some in this thread. In party voting principles are more important than wealth. In the Brexit debate wealth is everything to them

Money isn't everything. Unfortunately short term materialism is rife in the UK ( not digging anyone out on here btw ). For me this vote was never, ever about money and wealth. Laugh at me if like but the pride of nationhood was first for me.

[The Red Baron]

When the indicative votes happen (probably next week) one option I expect to be roundly defeated is the Second Referendum. I don't think MPs now trust people to vote the way they want.

I have a feeling that if anything commands a majority it will be Norway-plus or "Common Market 2.0." Whether either will be acceptable to EU is a moot point, as it may involve amending the WA. However before we adopt either it would be good to understand how much they differ from EU membership (other than the fact we won't have a vote in any EU decisions).

The best way of testing would be a Referendum. Whatever Parliament and the EU agrees to vs. Remain. I think that is very unlikely to be allowed by either party. So those well-intentioned folk who are marching today in London are wasting their time and energy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

That's the hypocrisy of some in this thread. In party voting principles are more important than wealth. In the Brexit debate wealth is everything to them

Money isn't everything. Unfortunately short term materialism is rife in the UK ( not digging anyone out on here btw ). For me this vote was never, ever about money and wealth. Laugh at me if like but the pride of nationhood was first for me.

Well we're certainly showing the world what a proud nation we are.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just a thought though.

I'm in Holland at the moment. Do you reckon THEY think of themselves as a proud nation?

[Filo]

When the indicative votes happen (probably next week) one option I expect to be roundly defeated is the Second Referendum. I don't think MPs now trust people to vote the way they want.

I have a feeling that if anything commands a majority it will be Norway-plus or "Common Market 2.0." Whether either will be acceptable to EU is a moot point, as it may involve amending the WA. However before we adopt either it would be good to understand how much they differ from EU membership (other than the fact we won't have a vote in any EU decisions).

The best way of testing would be a Referendum. Whatever Parliament and the EU agrees to vs. Remain. I think that is very unlikely to be allowed by either party. So those well-intentioned folk who are marching today in London are wasting their time and energy.

Maybe I’m not reading things right here, and I’m not sure who the indicative votes will work, but does anyone think thisis a cynical ploy to split the votes against the PM’s deal?

[Not Now Kato]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/22/secret-cabinet-office-document-reveals-chaotic-planning-for-no-deal-brexit
 
This is our incompetent governments planning for No Deal.  If it were a disaster movie it would be compelling, but as it's reality...................

[Axholme Lion]

Just a thought though.

I'm in Holland at the moment. Do you reckon THEY think of themselves as a proud nation?

I'm sure they do, and rightly so,but we do or did have a different outlook on these matters than those on the continent of Europe. Maybe the younger generation aren't really bothered about such things but it is important to me, despite as you say the absolute mess that politicians of all colours have made of this.