Brexit deal

[DonnyOsmond]

Just a thought though.

I'm in Holland at the moment. Do you reckon THEY think of themselves as a proud nation?

Probably not because Holland isn't a nation.

[wilts rover]

There is a train of thought like that Filo - MP's will rule out everything else so in the end they go back to May's deal.

They haven't yet announced how the indicative votes will work - or if they are actually having them. I think a lot depends on if the government are bringing them forward or if parliament is going to take over.

Personally I think it will be some form of CM2.0 subject to it being ratified by the public in a confirmatory vote/2nd Ref.

[wilts rover]

Economists have regularly said the U.K. would be better off under the tories than labour, so going by that bst, why would you vote labour and make yourself poorer? Yes you will find ones that say otherwise but the markets and the majority say different?

They have also regularly said that the UK is one of the most unequal countries in the developed world and voting Tory will benefit the wealthy and increase income inequality. So I guess it depends on whether or not you think making a small number of people a lot richer or a lot of people a lot less poorer is the country being 'better off'.

https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk
https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2019/feb/26/uk-income-inequality-benefits-income-ons
https://fullfact.org/economy/fifty-years-income-inequality/

[BillyStubbsTears]

Why do we have a different outlook?

[Axholme Lion]

Why do we have a different outlook?

I think we have due to being an island race and separated from Europe, we're seperate and different, and also being a former Imperial super power regardless of the rights or wrongs about it consider ourselves a bigger fish than the likes of Luxembourg or Poland. I'm not saying it's a right or wrong way of seeing things, i'm just saying that is the way many, certainly of my generation feel. As I say don't shoot me down because I know it's not the pc way of looking at things but that's why I think we have a different outlook.

[BillyStubbsTears]

But you DO realise that a) Holland used to be an Imperial power. France used to be an Imperial power. Spain and Portugal used to be Imperial powers.

That was generations ago. None of us will be Imperial powers again. Isn't it time to look to our futures rather than our pasts?

[Axholme Lion]

But you DO realise that a) Holland used to be an Imperial power. France used to be an Imperial power. Spain and Portugal used to be Imperial powers.

That was generations ago. None of us will be Imperial powers again. Isn't it time to look to our futures rather than our pasts?

Yes they did have Empires but nothing to match the size and spread of ours. Of course I see that was many years ago and the world has changed. It's just my opinion of why we see ourselves differently and also being an island nation makes a lot of difference.

[DonnyOsmond]

Axholme, not sure if you've said but out of interest what is your preferred Brexit?

[The Red Baron]

When the indicative votes happen (probably next week) one option I expect to be roundly defeated is the Second Referendum. I don't think MPs now trust people to vote the way they want.

I have a feeling that if anything commands a majority it will be Norway-plus or "Common Market 2.0." Whether either will be acceptable to EU is a moot point, as it may involve amending the WA. However before we adopt either it would be good to understand how much they differ from EU membership (other than the fact we won't have a vote in any EU decisions).

The best way of testing would be a Referendum. Whatever Parliament and the EU agrees to vs. Remain. I think that is very unlikely to be allowed by either party. So those well-intentioned folk who are marching today in London are wasting their time and energy.

Maybe I’m not reading things right here, and I’m not sure who the indicative votes will work, but does anyone think thisis a cynical ploy to split the votes against the PM’s deal?

I think the original plan was to table MV3 on Monday. Various amendments asking for different approaches would be tabled and voted on.

Now though May has all but admitted her deal is dead in the water. It won't come back but either the Government or some backbenchers will table a neutral but amendable motion.

May's Deal might come back for MV3 later, but only if all the alternatives are defeated, which is not impossible. Although the Government will be under pressure to allow Free Votes on the options, Labour may well whip. If Corbyn whips against the Second Referendum, we'll see several more Independents by the end of next week.

[Axholme Lion]

Axholme, not sure if you've said but out of interest what is your preferred Brexit?

I would like a no deal WTO departure. I've been on here quite often as pantomime villain for the remainers just to stir things up. If you have too many people on one forum that all have the same views it just becomes an echo chamber of the same opinions. However BST did bring up a good point the other day where he asked that as a committed remainer in the interest of moving forward he could grudgingly accept a Norway option and could I? My reply being that if it helped to get us forward build a bridge between both camps I could accept it.

[The Red Baron]

It's House Of Cards on steroids..


https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/cabinet-ministers-are-plotting-to-oust-theresa-may-as-her

[Glyn_Wigley]

It's House Of Cards on steroids..


https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/cabinet-ministers-are-plotting-to-oust-theresa-may-as-her

If she thinks she has to call an election with her deal as the front-and-centre policy on which the campaign is all based on...does she really think the ERG and all the other Tory MPs who've continually voted against it will campaign saying they'll support it? It'd be an even more disastrous campaign than the last one - especially as May won't be able to hide from debates like she did last time because a PM who won't go out there and tubthump for her own keystone policy is going to look an even bigger coward than she did last time.

[The Red Baron]

May might want to call a General Election on her deal, but I can't see many Tory MPs supporting that. It would be turkeys voting for Christmas. Probably about the only thing that could result in a Labour majority Government.

I hazard a guess she'll have to at least announce she's going once a successor is chosen. Otherwise half her Cabinet will walk out.

[BillyStubbsTears]

AL

If I piece together your argument correctly then, you are saying that, because we ruled India before you were born, you decided to vote to make us poorer.

[Glyn_Wigley]

AL

If I piece together your argument correctly then, you are saying that, because we ruled India before you were born, you decided to vote to make us poorer.

He's already said he voted the way he did because he wanted to stick it to a political elite who doesn't represent him or people like him, by taking power away from the EU and giving it to them. That'll show 'em.

[roversdude]

Maybe meaningless but the petition is past 4.5million

[bpoolrover]

17 million have already signed up to leave that’s 13 million more or does that not count

[bpoolrover]

If you look at the protests today most of the signs were for unions or against the tories nothing to do with brexit

[SydneyRover]

Forget the stream of lies inaccuracies and most if not all economic financial experts and journo's telling us we'll be much worse off financially and the poorest will wear the brunt of it as with Austerity (UK to date has already lost 180 billion) if we leave the EU ..............

What do you want, what would it take to stay and don't squib and say sovereignty or that you just want to leave please explain, just for the record.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

An interesting point on the March, decent numbers but not even the amount in London who voted remain. Stats eh?  Interesting someone said s general election would see labour win. They'd have to seriously go for a vote on Europe or back remain. Do we think under Corbyn that will happen? Where was he at the protest today? It's about the first protest he hasn't spoke at. Tom Watson was for labour and he got booed....

As for May she should go she is the biggest problem. God knows who you replace her with though.

[bobjimwilly]

 the only comment you have on the March is "decent numbers"? 1 million f**king people turned up! The biggest protest in decades along with the biggest online government petition - the people need to be asked again as the majority has clearly switched

[wilts rover]

I find the petition fascinating - nearly 5 million signatures now - especially the map that tells you the area the signatures have come from. And where they haven't.

https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584

There is also a site where you can view it by constituency. 33% in Bristol West the highest - 2% in Walsall the lowest.

https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584

If you think that shows the majority have clearly switched - that's fine.

If you think it shows the country is still just as divided as ever - then you are seeing it the same as I am.

[DonnyOsmond]

17 million have already signed up to leave that’s 13 million more or does that not count

You're so 2016. The leave petition has 450,000.

[DonnyOsmond]

If you look at the protests today most of the signs were for unions or against the tories nothing to do with brexit

So dense. It was literally the people's vote march.

[SydneyRover]

I find the petition fascinating - nearly 5 million signatures now - especially the map that tells you the area the signatures have come from. And where they haven't.

https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584

There is also a site where you can view it by constituency. 33% in Bristol West the highest - 2% in Walsall the lowest.

https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584

If you think that shows the majority have clearly switched - that's fine.

If you think it shows the country is still just as divided as ever - then you are seeing it the same as I am.

What the march and the petition show is the passion of those not wanting to trash the country and the numbers can be compared to past events to gauge to extrapolate the real mood, politicians can ignore it at their own peril, Blair is still an outsider.

[DonnyOsmond]

Wonder why the areas that receive the most EU funding are the biggest area for Leavers? Under 5% of the constituency for our areas for the petition.

[foxbat]

They were cleverly played by the Brexit elite and identified as people being more desperate and more likely to buy into a fantasy where they would magically become better off. By repeating the anti EU lies over and over again ( in the manner Trump ) a group of multi millionares have sought to impoverish the country so they can avoid the EU directive coming in April and keep their stash off shore and not pay any tax like the plebs. It also gives them the chance to make huge chunks of cash as ' disaster capitalists '.
Places like Doncaster would be left to rot.
Probably been p1ssing themselves laughing since the
 ' Frauderendum '.

[SydneyRover]

If you look at the protests today most of the signs were for unions or against the tories nothing to do with brexit

Incorrect but what do facts matter the leave lobby have used lies inaccuracies and illegal methods the whole way I'm not aiming these comments directly at you bpool but it makes it hard to move forward if those mistakes are not acknowledged.

As for unions they are not some strain of exotic alien they are working people working together to try and get their fair share of the spoils as they are entitled to do, meagre as they are.

 5,313,835 signatures


Three old white men walked into a bar in Harrogate, another brexit meeting?

[DonnyOsmond]

17 million by April 12th?

[Axholme Lion]

AL

If I piece together your argument correctly then, you are saying that, because we ruled India before you were born, you decided to vote to make us poorer.

No. I was saying that many Brits have a different view of the world and our place in it than many europeans and that could be as reason why.