Brexit deal

[IDM]

TRB
God knows I've no axe to grind for the SNP but they voted FOR CM2.0

I stand corrected. Anyway, shit will get real next week when the French veto our request for another extension. At least it will concentrate minds. No Deal or Revoke.

It’s going to be no deal, the PM wanted to compromise without changing anything, not sure how that works? And the French have aleays hated us

Didn’t parliament vote last week to take the possibility of no deal off the table.?

[Bentley Bullet]

Sydney,  I didn't reply to your post yesterday because I'm among the majority of people who have a life away from reading the views of third division off-topic football forum's Brexit experts.

You talk about the concerted efforts to get people to vote leave but fail to mention the BBC remain bias and the government sent leaflets to every household warning them to vote remain, along with the scaremongering and lies of the Prime minister of the time and his side-kick. That played a large part in getting people to vote remain. It certainly did me.

Now then, on the subject of ignoring questions and changing the subject, where's the answer to my question regarding the silly poll you keep updating on? How many people told them to f**k off?

Everyone knows that no one knows what the outcome will be, except for those who think they know.

[The Red Baron]

If it comes down to it, Parliament will vote to revoke rather than allowing no deal. That will be the end of both main parties, so as the old saying goes, "it's an ill wind..."

[Boomstick]

Steve, if we are poore as a country prescribed drugs will be hit.

If you believe the doom and gloom merchants on here Idler, but I don't. Come on mate, you're a similar age to me. When we were kids, we were on rations, but we got by.

This country went through 2 World Wars, and still managed to put food on the table. Does anybody honestly think we're all going to starve because of a bunch of w*nkers each side of the Channel?

Thing is, we had a united 'British Bulldog' attitude back then. Nowadays, we have a 'Britain Surrendering Together' element among us.

If we were all united in BB virtues instead of the BST element we'd have frightened the shit out of the EU.

Spot on!

[bpoolrover]

Whether you're a Remainer or Leaver, I hope none of you will ever again vote for any member of this appalling Parliament. They are the most venal, corrupt bunch of politicians we have ever had to suffer. I'm not being partisan - for me the ERG are as bad as the likes of Soubry and Grieve who stood for election on a pledge to honour the referendum results, and have then spent every waking hour trying to overturn it.

Personally I favour something along the lines of Common Market 2.0. I'm relaxed about being in the Single Market and a Customs Union. So long as we're out of the  "political" EU we can't be forced into the Euro or an EU Army. So I'm a Soft Brexit man, but I think the behaviour of MPs, with their posturing and grandstanding has been appalling.

The crowning thing for me was that the appalling Cooper Bill was passed by the vote of an MP who has just been released from prison for Perverting the course of justice, and is wearing an electronic tag. This is a Parliament of crooks. I'd love to put them all behind bars.

I have a wide group of friends who vote tories and labour and the majority say they will vote if a second referendum but will never vote in a general election again, they might not keep to that but it seems many people feel the same

Well, if they get a government after an election they don't vote in that f*cks them over they'll have no right to complain about it will they?

what about if they voted for something and won then didn’t get what they voted for?

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

Plot spoiler. They won't.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Whether you're a Remainer or Leaver, I hope none of you will ever again vote for any member of this appalling Parliament. They are the most venal, corrupt bunch of politicians we have ever had to suffer. I'm not being partisan - for me the ERG are as bad as the likes of Soubry and Grieve who stood for election on a pledge to honour the referendum results, and have then spent every waking hour trying to overturn it.

Personally I favour something along the lines of Common Market 2.0. I'm relaxed about being in the Single Market and a Customs Union. So long as we're out of the  "political" EU we can't be forced into the Euro or an EU Army. So I'm a Soft Brexit man, but I think the behaviour of MPs, with their posturing and grandstanding has been appalling.

The crowning thing for me was that the appalling Cooper Bill was passed by the vote of an MP who has just been released from prison for Perverting the course of justice, and is wearing an electronic tag. This is a Parliament of crooks. I'd love to put them all behind bars.

I have a wide group of friends who vote tories and labour and the majority say they will vote if a second referendum but will never vote in a general election again, they might not keep to that but it seems many people feel the same

Well, if they get a government after an election they don't vote in that f*cks them over they'll have no right to complain about it will they?

what about if they voted for something and won then didn’t get what they voted for?

That might depend on whether their vote was only advisory and not binding.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool

As I keep on saying. In 2016, you didn't vote for a THING. You voted for a blanket term that covered a multitude of things.

So, you question should be, what if they voted for someTHINGS and didn't get the specific thing they thought they were voting for?

[The Red Baron]

TRB

Plot spoiler. They won't.

You mean the extension? I think the  "flextension" that Donald Tusk proposed is the best we can hope for.

I hope they won't go for the end of June, which May wants. That just smacks of can-kicking.

[SydneyRover]

Sydney,  I didn't reply to your post yesterday because I'm among the majority of people who have a life away from reading the views of third division off-topic football forum's Brexit experts.

You talk about the concerted efforts to get people to vote leave but fail to mention the BBC remain bias and the government sent leaflets to every household warning them to vote remain, along with the scaremongering and lies of the Prime minister of the time and his side-kick. That played a large part in getting people to vote remain. It certainly did me.

Now then, on the subject of ignoring questions and changing the subject, where's the answer to my question regarding the silly poll you keep updating on? How many people told them to f**k off?

Everyone knows that no one knows what the outcome will be, except for those who think they know.

We all know this is another reply avoiding the question, as for the leaflets, are they dishonest? and the BBC bias please post some links to show us what you mean.

As for your for other life you seem to still spend time spend here and still never seem to answer a direct question, same as Theresa May really.

[Bentley Bullet]

Us? Who's Us? The BST Party?

[SydneyRover]

Us? Who's Us? The BST Party?

Here again bb, answer any questions?

A shambles on which the sun never sets: how the world sees Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/06/a-shambles-on-which-the-sun-never-sets-h

 6,067,049 signatures

[Bentley Bullet]

Siderney, I have answered every question put to me in this thread. The answer to some of them has been "I don't know" because unlike you I don't pretend to know all the answers to everything. If you can't be arsed to find them I can't be arsed to repeat them.

The leaflets expressed the thoughts of Cameron and Osborne, who misled us about an instant recession, mass unemployment, pension reductions and punishment budgets. Cameron also lied about leading the country whatever the result of the referendum only to resign the next day. The leaflets cost more than 9 million quid of taxpayers money. More than half of voters who were against its content had to fund it!

Now then, on the subject of avoiding answering questions, perhaps you can at last answer mine.

1) who's 'we' and 'us',

2) How many people when asked to vote in the silly poll you keep updating told them to f**k off?

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1114516511702564864

Jesus, f**king, wept.

"We didn't realise Brexit was going to be rather complicated."

This from a Govt whose ministers have said they didn't realise how important Dover-Calais was to our trade, and they didn't realise that there were a lot of sectarian problems in Northern Ireland.

Good to know we're being governed by the brightest and best, eh?

[SydneyRover]

Siderney, I have answered every question put to me in this thread. The answer to some of them has been "I don't know" because unlike you I don't pretend to know all the answers to everything. If you can't be arsed to find them I can't be arsed to repeat them.

The leaflets expressed the thoughts of Cameron and Osborne, who misled us about an instant recession, mass unemployment, pension reductions and punishment budgets. Cameron also lied about leading the country whatever the result of the referendum only to resign the next day. The leaflets cost more than 9 million quid of taxpayers money. More than half of voters who were against its content had to fund it!

Now then, on the subject of avoiding answering questions, perhaps you can at last answer mine.

1) who's 'we' and 'us',

2) How many people when asked to vote in the silly poll you keep updating told them to f**k off?

Hi Benterly, the "us and we" are everyone or almost everyone on the forum that is involved in the debate, it's not unreasonable when direct questions are asked that intelligent answers are given, no?

As for ''How many people when asked to vote in the silly poll you keep updating told them to f**k off?''

It's an on-line poll hosted by a government website so no-one actually gets asked, those that are interested go to the site and vote.

These are the questions I put to you the other day, not difficult but interesting to know where you stand on a couple of things.

The main point of contention of those that voted to remain in Europe, apart from the majority of experts in many fields telling us we would be better off in, and the huge positive for all that there has been no war within the EU and it's unlikely that an outside country would want to take that option because we consist of 28 United countries is that ........ (deep breath) ................. there has been a concerted effort to poison the well, to stir up trouble within the UK to get people to vote leave, This is an undeniable fact and most reasonable people would/could see that it played a large part in getting the No vote up.

Do you agree with this or not?

If you do agree then the next step logical would be to support those that want the country to have a legitimate vote where everyone fully understands what they are voting for and what is at stake.

If you don't agree it would be good for you to explain to me and the forum, (not that you have to of course as I stated in an earlier post most leavers faced with direct questions ignore them or change the subject) in common sense terms why not. This is an open question to anyone on the forum leave or not.

 6,067,926 signatures

[Bentley Bullet]

Hi Siderney. I think in a one on to one situation such as this, 'us' and 'we' are terms of weakness used by people seeking the security of back up. I personally don't use the terms.  I get my strength from personal opinion. Perhaps that's why I don't always feel the need to show links to strengthen my case.

Regarding your question that I've answered over and over again, no, I don't agree with it. It fails to mention for instance the one-sided government propaganda leaflet which proved to be written by liars and forced on everybody.

Regarding your 'next step logic', no, I don't agree with it. I believe in democracy and that means democratic votes should stand. Maybe there shouldn't have been a vote in the first place, but there was and It wasn't the result of the vote at fault, it was the way it has been handled by people in power taking undemocratic liberties in attempts to make it fail. The real sad bit is over 6 million of the public agree there should be a revote. Not a vast amount for another one-sided propaganda poll that only records positive response, but it does signify 6+ million misguided people.

[idler]

BB surely the leave side could organise a petition if they wished to show that there are millions that still want to leave.
I voted leave but expected a negotiation process that would keep us trading with our nearest neighbours not the bitter farce that has unfolded.

[SydneyRover]

Hi Siderney. I think in a one on to one situation such as this, 'us' and 'we' are terms of weakness used by people seeking the security of back up. I personally don't use the terms.  I get my strength from personal opinion. Perhaps that's why I don't always feel the need to show links to strengthen my case.

Regarding your question that I've answered over and over again, no, I don't agree with it. It fails to mention for instance the one-sided government propaganda leaflet which proved to be written by liars and forced on everybody.

Regarding your 'next step logic', no, I don't agree with it. I believe in democracy and that means democratic votes should stand. Maybe there shouldn't have been a vote in the first place, but there was and It wasn't the result of the vote at fault, it was the way it has been handled by people in power taking undemocratic liberties in attempts to make it fail. The real sad bit is over 6 million of the public agree there should be a revote. Not a vast amount for another one-sided propaganda poll that only records positive response, but it does signify 6+ million misguided people.

I never think posting on an open forum is a strictly 1-1 situation, I think that's why it's called a forum rather than email.
You are entitled to use whatever terms you wish and so is everyone else, I think you are somehow using this as support for your own thinking and do no agree.
Which parts of the ''leaflet'' do you disagree with and why or are you parroting what someone else has said?
If the leaflet was lies as you say plus all the illegal foreign money on fb does that not strengthen the case for a second vote? it means most of the people that voted were lied to.
You say that ''but there was and It wasn't the result of the vote at fault, it was the way it has been handled by people in power taking undemocratic liberties in attempts to make it fail'' it is not clear what you mean here could explain?
6m + wanting to revoke A50 not one of them told anyone to f**k-off.
Your argument here and other comments about bulldog spirit or similar appear to be a mishmash of built up resentment which is difficult to fathom.

regards Syderney

 6,068,173 signatures

[Bentley Bullet]

"Parroting what someone else has said"? Apologies if you are joking there, but aren't YOU the one that posts link after link after link after link after link in order to parrot what someone else has said?

You just clutch at straws. You talk about the illegal foreign money forcing people to vote leave, and before that story came out you raged about some other story you could jump on the bandwagon of.

It reminds me of Ricky Gervais's Office episode of the annual quiz competition.

If you don't know what I mean, watch it.

[SydneyRover]

"Parroting what someone else has said"? Apologies if you are joking there, but aren't YOU the one that posts link after link after link after link after link in order to parrot what someone else has said?

You just clutch at straws. You talk about the illegal foreign money forcing people to vote leave, and before that story came out you raged about some other story you could jump on the bandwagon of.

It reminds me of Ricky Gervais's Office episode of the annual quiz competition.

If you don't know what I mean, watch it.

Reread this last post of yours and then you'll understand why I think you're frustrated and have built up resentment for what reasons I'm unsure but may be that you are having difficulty in expressing yourself. Remaining calm is always best, in my opinion.

Thank you for your prompt reply, Syderney

 6,068,225 signatures and climbing.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

Plot spoiler. They won't.

You mean the extension? I think the  "flextension" that Donald Tusk proposed is the best we can hope for.

I hope they won't go for the end of June, which May wants. That just smacks of can-kicking.

I meant that neither the French nor anyone else will veto it.

[Bentley Bullet]

Syderney, your perception of my disposition is about as good as your concept of one-sided propaganda polls that only count positive responses.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Worth 11 mins of your time if you're genuinely interested in how our democracy is being stolen.

https://www.zdf.de/politik/frontal-21/drahtzieher-des-brexits-english-version-100.html

And listen to Farage's response. "No-one is interested."

This is how it happens folks. It happens because ordinary people are too bored to do anything about it.

[Glyn_Wigley]

It looks like even Peter Oborne has changed his mind. (Perhaps someone should tell Liz Truss that it does happen!)

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-was-strong-brexiteer-now-we-must-swallow-our-pride-and-think-again/

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've said for years that, although I'm at the other end of the political spectrum, I have nothing but respect for Peter Oborne's approach to each and every problem he deals with. I often come to a different conclusion to him, but he starts from the position of establishing facts and concepts, and draws his conclusions from those. He doesn't decide what he believes then sticks his head between his legs, refusing to engage with difficult contrary facts.

So it's eye opening to read that from him. He's been an ardent and strident Brexiteer for many years. But he's enough of a grown up to see that it's time to look at the absolute shambles that this has led us into.

And THIS, is the most sensible and thoughtful response I've yet seen to the "it's all about the principle" childish b*llocks that gets trotted out with depressing regularity.

I respect those who say yes, all this is worth it to pursue a dream of independence. It is a noble dream. I share it. It is founded on Britain’s historic role as a proud nation that has repeatedly fought for freedom and liberty. I, too, am conscious of our magnificent history. In the 18th century we stood against the Bourbon dream of European hegemony. We liberated Europe from the Napoleonic domination of continental Europe at the start of the 19th century. And faced up to Nazi Germany in 1940.

But this is not 1939 or the Battle of Waterloo in 1815. History gets made and remade all the time. The European Union is not a dictatorship, as contemptuous of national identity as Napoleonic France. Nor can it be compared to Nazi Germany – a foolish analogy which has become an ugly cliché and displays an unforgivable failure to understand the true horror of recent European history. Nor is it any longer a socialist project as envisaged by Jacques Delors, let alone an evil empire, as some have characterised it.

Of course our looming privations and national isolation would be thoroughly worthwhile if we were confronting such a continental menace. Let others call us ridiculous: we would have a duty to stand alone. But is such language appropriate in a century when all our EU partners are democracies, and none poses the remotest threat of taking up arms against us?

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is good int it?

https://mobile.twitter.com/theresa_may/status/1114891046025084931?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-4271620539573117560.ampproject.net%2F1903281741200%2Fframe.html

As we enter the most politically fraught week since Suez, May has been off down the market, listen to folk shouting, "Oi! Treezah! Wot's 'appenin' wi' that there Brexit then, eh?"

Then making shite selfie videos.

[selby]

  Glyn, lots have changed their minds,I would vote out if there was ever a sell out and another vote.
  I know quite a few more people who would do the same.

[SydneyRover]

Syderney, your perception of my disposition is about as good as your concept of one-sided propaganda polls that only count positive responses.

Disposition dat position, apart from being annoyed at Cameron as many of us are with those from the Bellenden club, forget the past few votes and the next one for a moment, forget all the division and argument, tell me in simple term for yes I'm a simple man what is it you want from Brexit give me a vision from the "man in the street'' what are you hoping to get from a "win" Mr Benterley.

 6,069,258 signatures (60 times more than required for a parliamentary debate)

[Bentley Bullet]

In simple terms, I hope what we democratically voted for turns out to be a good decision and the country eventually flourishes.

What do you hope for Syderney?

[SydneyRover]

In simple terms, I hope what we democratically voted for turns out to be a good decision and the country eventually flourishes.

What do you hope for Syderney?

I did hope that for once you would give an answer that actually meant something rather than flowery terms that don't tell me or anyone else anything. 

I hope that the country pulls back from the precipice and that regional Britain would continue to receive EU funding, more than it ever did from London-centric government.

 6,069,319 signatures more than brexitcon