Brexit deal

[BillyStubbsTears]

Straight to Hell?
Ever Fallen in Love with a Brexit You Shouldn't Have Fallen In Love With?
It's (not) Gonna Happen?

By the way, I strongly recommend this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0004vyd/storyville-brexit-behind-closed-doors-part-1
Eye-opening, informative and (as  someone who is proud to be British) shaming.

Surely the ultimate Brexit soundtrack is Hotel California by The Eagles.


"You can check out any time you like, but you can never Leave."

Au contraire.

You can check out any time you want but you might not get the leaving package that Nigel and Boris promised you.

I've never been an Eagles fan, but every time I see Farage, "You can't hide your lyin' eyes" plays in my head.

[scawsby steve]

Straight to Hell?
Ever Fallen in Love with a Brexit You Shouldn't Have Fallen In Love With?
It's (not) Gonna Happen?

By the way, I strongly recommend this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0004vyd/storyville-brexit-behind-closed-doors-part-1
Eye-opening, informative and (as  someone who is proud to be British) shaming.

Surely the ultimate Brexit soundtrack is Hotel California by The Eagles.


"You can check out any time you like, but you can never Leave."

Au contraire.

You can check out any time you want but you might not get the leaving package that Nigel and Boris promised you.

I've never been an Eagles fan, but every time I see Farage, "You can't hide your lyin' eyes" plays in my head.

Very good Billy, and probably very true, but tell me one single politician in the whole wide world who isn't a liar.

Honest people don't go into politics.

[Bentley Bullet]

Billy's a bit of a Desperado these days.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS

All politicians have to duck and dive and dissemble and evade. Because if they were 100% truthful all the time, they would get slaughtered. That is the fault of society that is too immature to deal with complexity and accept that all politicians have to compromise and can't please everyone all the time.

There are politicians that reflect every type of person, but if you genuinely, genuinely think that none of them are honest,then I despair.

The idea that has taken hold, that all politicians in this country are venal, self-serving liars is one of THE most dangerous threats to the country at the moment.

The reason is, that is enough people are jaundiced and assume that they are ALL lying bas**rds, the real lying bas**rds are let off the hook.

And that's precisely what's happened in recent years.

Farage is the poster boy for it in this country. Trump in America. They hurl abuse on ALL politicians and convince people that they are all liars. Then their own lies get buried.

Farage wrote the executive summary to the UKIP 2010 manifesto. He lead the launch of it. Then when people pointed out that it was utter batshit (they wanted to pass laws to make train companies paint their trains in pre-nationalisation colours, to make all taxi drivers have to wear uniforms, and to give millionaires tax cuts of greater than 20%) Farage sat across the table from an interviewer and said "I had nothing to do with that document."

After the 2016 vote, he said in an interview "I never said there'd be £350m/week for the NHS."

During the campaign, he frequently said we should have a relationship with the EU like Norway. After it, he said that a Norway deal would be a humiliation.

THAT is dishonesty. He does it week after week. Hiding in plain sight. Accepted, because folk like you lazily assume that they are all as bad.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Billy's a bit of a Desperado these days.

Going to be One of Those Nights is it?

[Bentley Bullet]

Not if you come to your senses.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I bow to your better knowledge of the back catalogue of the fullest band in history.

Me?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D-JlmvtAHhnc&ved=2ahUKEwjxpOjUq5HiAhWaXRUIHe3eA5IQwqsBegQIAhAF&usg=AOvVaw3xPu1rThjkSpV1Z4FbETXC

[scawsby steve]

SS

All politicians have to duck and dive and dissemble and evade. Because if they were 100% truthful all the time, they would get slaughtered. That is the fault of society that is too immature to deal with complexity and accept that all politicians have to compromise and can't please everyone all the time.

There are politicians that reflect every type of person, but if you genuinely, genuinely think that none of them are honest,then I despair.

The idea that has taken hold, that all politicians in this country are venal, self-serving liars is one of THE most dangerous threats to the country at the moment.

The reason is, that is enough people are jaundiced and assume that they are ALL lying bas**rds, the real lying bas**rds are let off the hook.

And that's precisely what's happened in recent years.

Farage is the poster boy for it in this country. Trump in America. They hurl abuse on ALL politicians and convince people that they are all liars. Then their own lies get buried.

Farage wrote the executive summary to the UKIP 2010 manifesto. He lead the launch of it. Then when people pointed out that it was utter batshit (they wanted to pass laws to make train companies paint their trains in pre-nationalisation colours, to make all taxi drivers have to wear uniforms, and to give millionaires tax cuts of greater than 20%) Farage sat across the table from an interviewer and said "I had nothing to do with that document."

After the 2016 vote, he said in an interview "I never said there'd be £350m/week for the NHS."

During the campaign, he frequently said we should have a relationship with the EU like Norway. After it, he said that a Norway deal would be a humiliation.

THAT is dishonesty. He does it week after week. Hiding in plain sight. Accepted, because folk like you lazily assume that they are all as bad.

And that honest, cuddly old guy Vince Cable introduced a foul-mouthed slogan that basically told 17.4 million people to f*ck off; but it's not true to say that all politicians are as bad as each other.

Either I'm being cynical here, or you're being naive. I think I know what most people would think.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.

we were talking about dishonesty. Is Cable being dishonest?

[Bentley Bullet]

He might have connections.

[scawsby steve]

SS.

we were talking about dishonesty. Is Cable being dishonest?

If he claims to be a democrat, and then promotes a slogan like that, that defies democracy in every possible way, then yes, he's being dishonest.

Go back and read the words on that slogan.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS
I've read it. It wouldn't have been my choice of words. But describing g that as dishonest is a weird stretching of meaning. And I have no problem with anyone forcefully pointing out that Brexit is a massive mistake and that the Leave campaign was riddled with lies, claims that have been shown to be false and criminal activity. It's certainly enough to make ME swear.

[SydneyRover]

SS

All politicians have to duck and dive and dissemble and evade. Because if they were 100% truthful all the time, they would get slaughtered. That is the fault of society that is too immature to deal with complexity and accept that all politicians have to compromise and can't please everyone all the time.

There are politicians that reflect every type of person, but if you genuinely, genuinely think that none of them are honest,then I despair.

The idea that has taken hold, that all politicians in this country are venal, self-serving liars is one of THE most dangerous threats to the country at the moment.

The reason is, that is enough people are jaundiced and assume that they are ALL lying bas**rds, the real lying bas**rds are let off the hook.

And that's precisely what's happened in recent years.

Farage is the poster boy for it in this country. Trump in America. They hurl abuse on ALL politicians and convince people that they are all liars. Then their own lies get buried.

Farage wrote the executive summary to the UKIP 2010 manifesto. He lead the launch of it. Then when people pointed out that it was utter batshit (they wanted to pass laws to make train companies paint their trains in pre-nationalisation colours, to make all taxi drivers have to wear uniforms, and to give millionaires tax cuts of greater than 20%) Farage sat across the table from an interviewer and said "I had nothing to do with that document."

After the 2016 vote, he said in an interview "I never said there'd be £350m/week for the NHS."

During the campaign, he frequently said we should have a relationship with the EU like Norway. After it, he said that a Norway deal would be a humiliation.

THAT is dishonesty. He does it week after week. Hiding in plain sight. Accepted, because folk like you lazily assume that they are all as bad.

And that honest, cuddly old guy Vince Cable introduced a foul-mouthed slogan that basically told 17.4 million people to f*ck off; but it's not true to say that all politicians are as bad as each other.

Either I'm being cynical here, or you're being naive. I think I know what most people would think.

And you have never used a similar or worse SS? sounds like a bit of faux indignation?

''One of the early references is Wycliffe's Bible (1382), Leviticus xxii, 24: "Al beeste, that ... kitt and taken awey the ballokes is, ye shulen not offre to the Lord ..." (any beast that is cut and taken away the b*llocks, you shall not offer to the Lord, i.e. castrated animals are not suitable as sacrifices)''

"b*llocks" /ˈbɒləks/ is a word of Middle English origin, meaning "testicles". The word is often used figuratively in colloquial British English and Hiberno-English as a noun to mean "nonsense", an expletive following a minor accident or misfortune, or an adjective to mean "poor quality" or "useless". Similarly, common phrases like "b*llocks to this!" and "That's a load of old b*llocks" generally indicate contempt for a certain task, subject or opinion. Conversely, the word also figures in idiomatic phrases such as "the dog's b*llocks" or more simply "the b*llocks" (as opposed to just "b*llocks"), which will refer to something which is admired, approved of or well-respected.[A]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/b*llocks

[Bentley Bullet]

Can't argue with that Sidney. You're clearly better at talking b*llocks than I am.

[SydneyRover]

Can't argue with that Sidney. You're clearly better at talking b*llocks than I am.

Too right BB you can't flaunt what you aint got.

[Bentley Bullet]

If Theresa May can get away with it I'm sure I can.

[The Red Baron]

Changing the subject slightly, I got my Postal Voting form today. On the ballot paper you can only vote for one party. I thought it was first and second preference?

It's certainly going to force those who want to vote for a committed Remain party to vote tactically. Change UK, the Greens and the Lib Dems are all standing. The pro-Leave vote can only really go one of two ways- the Brexit Party or UKIP.

West Midlands returns 7 MEPs. In 2014 there were three Kippers, two Tories and two Labour. I would think the three UKIP seats would go to Brexit, Labour and the Tories will hold one each. One Tory seat will probably go to the Lib Dems and Labour will either just hang on to the other seat or that will go to Brexit.

So, 3-4 Brexit, 1-2 Labour, 1 Tory, 1 LD.

[The Red Baron]

PS. I have to say that despite the number of parties I'm minded to abstain or spoil my ballot. No-one is offering the kind of Brexit I would prefer, I.e. Norway-plus.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB
Strange isn't it? Farage was all over that sort of Brexit in 2016. I wonder what led to his honest and principled change of mind. Straight after the vote.

[The Red Baron]

TRB
Strange isn't it? Farage was all over that sort of Brexit in 2016. I wonder what led to his honest and principled change of mind. Straight after the vote.

Mr. Putin or Mr. Trump presumably. Anyway, the lead candidate for the Brexit party in the West Midlands is Rupert Lowe, former chairman of Southampton FC and an ocean-going bell-end.

If Labour or the Tories came out for Norway-plus, I'd vote for them. But the Single Market is anathema to the Corbynites, who want to be able to nationalise anything that moves and a Customs Union is anathema to the Tories, who think we can get better trade deals outside the EU umbrella.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

You're being far too understanding of Farage. He"changed his mind" because he's a lying shite. He never wanted a Norway style deal, but saying "Wouldn't it be great if we had a deal like Norway" enabled him to neutralise the argument that leaving the EU would be economically harmful.

He's an unprincipled, treacherous liar. It's horrifying how many people are blind to it.

[scawsby steve]

TRB

You're being far too understanding of Farage. He"changed his mind" because he's a lying shite. He never wanted a Norway style deal, but saying "Wouldn't it be great if we had a deal like Norway" enabled him to neutralise the argument that leaving the EU would be economically harmful.

He's an unprincipled, treacherous liar. It's horrifying how many people are blind to it.

OK Billy; time for a reality check, especially as you seem to think that regarding ALL politicians as liars and cheats is just lazy thinking. Cast your mind back to 2010 when Nick Clegg and his cronies, including the wonderful Vince Cable, disgusted their supporters all over the country by getting into bed with the detestable Tory Party and reneging  on their manifesto promises, none more so than the scrapping of student tuition fees. The fact that they took cushy well paid jobs in David Cameron's cabinet just made the whole thing even more sleazy.

These are the guys that you are portraying as whiter than white, and that the only bad guy in the mix is Nigel Farage. I think you'll find a lot of people disagreeing with you on May 23rd.

You're a very intelligent guy Billy, but there are times when your partisanship prevents you from looking at the bigger picture.

[wilts rover]

Fascinating poll data. Corbyns' strategy of compromise appears to be working in that Labour is the largest vote share for those who voted Remain in 2016 whilst also being 2nd choice for Leavers. No doubt who is 1st choice for Leavers tho.

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1127265494468386816

[Boomstick]

Michael O’Leary, Chief Executive of Ryanair after arriving in a hotel in Manchester went to the bar and asked for a pint of Guinness.

The barman said, "That will be £1 please, Mr. O’Leary."

Taken aback, O'Leary replied, "That's very cheap," and handed over his money.

"We do try to stay ahead of the competition", said the barman. "We have the cheapest beer in England".

"That is remarkable value", Michael comments.

"I see you don't have a glass, you'll need one of ours. That will be £3 please."

O'Leary scowled, but paid up. He took his drink and walked towards a seat.

"Ah, you want to sit down?" said the barman. "That'll be an extra £2. If you'd pre-booked it would have cost £1."

O'Leary swore to himself, but paid up.

"I see you've brought your laptop" added the barman. "That wasn't pre-booked either, that's another £3."

O'Leary was so incensed and his face was red with rage.
"I've had enough! I insist on speaking to a manager!"

"Here is his e-mail address, or if you wish, you can contact him between 9.00 am and 9.01am every morning, Monday to Tuesday. Calls are free, unless answered, then there is a charge of only £1 per second".

"I will never use this bar again".

"OK but do remember, we are the only hotel in England selling pints for £1."


Let's get out of that f**king corrupt club.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Right.

I've just watched 2001: A Space Odyssey with the kids. They've just seen the most incomprehensible final 20 minutes of any film in history.

And that was easy to absorb compared to trying to figure out what the f**king hell BS is on about.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS

You might want to have a look back through the archives and see what I was saying about the LDs in 2010.

I'll Precis it for you. I said that the LDs, renegeing on their key policies to climb I to bed with the Tories was the greatest con of voters in a century. I said it would make them unelectable as a serious contender for a generation, and deservedly so.

I was correct. Their supporters left them in droves.

But. There is a very important aspect to this. The LDs changed policy because they (wrongly) convinced themselves that they had to compromise to make sure we had a stable coalition Govt to bring us out of the Great Recession. They didn't lie to the electorate about what they believed before the election in 2010. They campaigned passionately for what they believed in. They then made a very difficult realpolitik decision, and made the wrong decision, demonstrably because it all but destroyed them.

Farage is a totally different case. He never backed a Norway style deal. But he used Norway as an example time and time again in 2016. Because Norway is a rich country outside the EU. So that gave the impression that we could be rich-ER outside the EU.

He never believed that. Not for a moment. He wanted and wants us out of the EU and not tied in to its institutions (like Norway is) at all. Which is why he NOW says that anyone supporting a Norway style deal (which I would, reluctantly) is betraying the vote.

THAT is what an unprincipled liar does. But the irony is that when HE does it the idiots who support him think even more of him.

I don't doubt that millions are going to vote for him the week after next. What I doubt is their ability (or willingness) to see his deception for the frightening thing that it is.

Sleepwalking into a f**king nightmare.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts.

If Labour being in 21% in that poll is evidence of Corbyn being right, I hope to God he's never wrong.

Sorry. Silly me. The possibility of him being wrong doesn't exist, does it?

[Bentley Bullet]

Thing is Billy, Farage has gone far beyond a third division off-topic football forum to put his case across and seems to have convinced a vast amount of voters. I'm sure he isn't aware of your potentially libellous accusations against him because I'm sure he has bigger fish to fry.

If you don't think that is the case, and you want to express your hatred of him somewhere where he might hear you, why don't you? That way your view might make more than an iota of difference.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
You think I don't?

Potentially libellous my arse. Everything I've ever said about him, here and elsewhere is supported by facts. Evidence of what himself has said, or of what others have proven.

Do you normally interact with people who base their ideas on piss and wind?

In this particular case, the concept of anyone suggesting that it is libellous to call Farage a lying, devious shite over the Norway issue is beyond farcical. You don't have to dig very far to find the massive disconnect between what the lying, devious shite said before the Referendum and what the lying,devious shite says now.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DfNCwcTu9U6U&ved=0ahUKEwjE25-qwZTiAhVfThUIHRqXAQwQo7QBCCYwAA&usg=AOvVaw0-TWOLTkSURJQpFsko7zz5

Or then there was his visit to see Assange in the Ecuadorean embassy. A couple of days before Wikileaks leaked some hacked e-mails (hacked by the Russian IRA) that were massively helpful to Trump. He was stopped on the steps of the embassy by someone who asked him what he'd been doing there and his answer was that he couldn't remember. That's right. He couldn't remember as he came out of the door. So I'll call him a lying devious shite over that one as well.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, I'm sure you don't. If you did you wouldn't have time to express your potentially libellous accusations on a third division off-topic football forum.