Brexit deal

[BillyStubbsTears]

If we, collectively, can't do better than this stupidity of the likes of Widdecombe...if we actually support it and allow it to represent us, we entirely deserve the future that's coming.

What a national embarrassment.

I was away with work yesterday. Stayed in a cheapish hotel. Got talking over breakfast with a middle aged German bloke who has come to the UK to visit his daughter at the end of her academic year at a UK university.

He was incredulous at what we are doing. Genuinely baffled and sad for us. Couldn't believe that a Britain that (his words) is a perfect example of hard-headed common sense is allowing itself to be represented and guided and deeply damaged by these clowns.

It's like were walking drugged into this. A Brecit that will cement Johnson as PM and put money into the pockets of spivs, while giving the rest of us a poorer and harsher and less respected future.

[idler]

She wouldn't have been out of place in League of Gentleman with yesterday's speech.
You can't believe anybody would consider it anything than utter drivel, posture and posing.

[selby]

  If Margaret  Thatcher had made the same speech the BBC and the Tory press would have lauded it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby.

Margaret Thatcher was a sane, rational and competent politician.

Ann Widdecombe is a batshit nut job.

God knows how much I disliked Thatcher's policies, but she would never have made a speech like that. It shows how far down the slide we've gone where you are supporting and justifying that idiocy from Widdecombe.

[SydneyRover]

Selby.

Margaret Thatcher was a sane, rational and competent politician.

Ann Widdecombe is a batshit nut job.

God knows how much I disliked Thatcher's policies, but she would never have made a speech like that. It shows how far down the slide we've gone where you are supporting and justifying that idiocy from Widdecombe.

One hopes that she is unwell, at least there would be the possibility of a recovery.

[selby]

  Billy I am not supporting it at all, just pointing out that the politics of Thatchers time would have responded differently in my opinion, given the same stand off on Brexit that is now the case.
  Strong anti EU talk would have been much more acceptable in Thatchers time in power, its just a generational thing. The younger generations are much more touchy and  easily offended, when it suits them that is.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yeah, but Thatcher would no have allowed the lunatics to take over the asylum and drive us into this stupidity.

This is all the doing of a few dozen right wing nut job politicians. There was never a drive in the country for this until those politicians started stoking it up. For their own aims.

[DevilMayCry]

What does the world think of Boris Johnson?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zotVME8jdaI

[SydneyRover]

What does the world think of Boris Johnson?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zotVME8jdaI

Boris the mini trump, May was an idiot appointing a fool as foreign secretary and boris didn't let anyone down he reminds me of an alpaca but not as smart.

[SydneyRover]

The really smart people in the race for PM are the business interests behind Mark Textor and Lynton Crosby as they are getting what they want via their stooge boris and boris is paying Textor and Crosby to get elected, neat aye?

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way Selby. You can scour the records all you like for "Strong anti-EU talk" back in the 80s,comparing the EU to slave masters, colonialists or the USSR as people routinely do today. Go on. I challenge you.

No. It's not about people today being snowflakes who get upset at "tough talk". It's about a debasing of language and a radicalisation of ideas on the Right, by a small group of politicians who are playing YOU to help THEM. And you are willingly going along with it. And turning a blind eye to how they have poisoned our debate.

[SydneyRover]

''Ex-MI6 chief: UK going through 'political nervous breakdown'

Sir John Sawers says Brexit has left country divided and damaged its global reputation''

This is why he has a knighthood and why he's paid so much yeah?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/06/ex-mi6-chief-uk-going-through-political-nervous-breakdown

[DevilMayCry]

Labour back second referendum - and peers resign whip over ‘anti-semitism'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtWMuRRVGKY

[SydneyRover]

It's good that there are some sensible people with influence to stop a complete disaster, from there we could possibly turn this mess around.

''I’ll take you to court to block a no-deal Brexit, Gina Miller tells Boris Johnson''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/14/gina-miller-legal-action-block-no-deal-brexit-boris-johnson

[BillyStubbsTears]

Another prominent Brexit Party member barely on nodding terms with the truth.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1151165049706299392

A bit of context. She worked for Cambridge Analytica on the Kenyan election, in which they poured misinformation into the social media streams of people who'd been profiled through their Facebook usage as being susceptible to being misled by lies about the Opposition (sound familiar).

She's now a BP MEP.

Several journalists have said she worked for CA and have been threatened with legal action by her for libel.

Turns out she must have just forgotten that she DID work for CA. Easy done I suppose. Seems like BP folk regularly forget stuff they've done before.

[SydneyRover]

Another prominent Brexit Party member barely on nodding terms with the truth.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1151165049706299392

A bit of context. She worked for Cambridge Analytica on the Kenyan election, in which they poured misinformation into the social media streams of people who'd been profiled through their Facebook usage as being susceptible to being misled by lies about the Opposition (sound familiar).

She's now a BP MEP.

Several journalists have said she worked for CA and have been threatened with legal action by her for libel.

Turns out she must have just forgotten that she DID work for CA. Easy done I suppose. Seems like BP folk regularly forget stuff they've done before.

I would be pretty pissed off if I had received any of this shit (not that I have ever been a member of fb) because what it says about those that have received it is that they are gullible and uninformed.

''gullible
/ˈɡʌləb(ə)l/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: gullible

    easily persuaded to believe something; credulous.
    "an attempt to persuade a gullible public to spend their money"
    synonyms:   credulous, over-trusting, over-trustful, trustful, easily deceived/led, easily taken in, exploitable, dupable, deceivable, impressionable, unsuspecting, unsuspicious, unwary, unguarded, unsceptical, ingenuous, naive, innocent, simple, inexperienced, unworldly, green, as green as grass, childlike, ignorant; More
    foolish, silly;
    informalwet behind the ears, born yesterday
    "the swindler preyed upon gullible old women"
   

[SydneyRover]

''No-deal Brexit 'would send UK into recession', forecasters fear - business''

But apparently they have released this forecast before speaking to the brains trust on the Viking Chat Forum.

''A new healthcheck on Britain’s economy is expected to warn today that a no-deal Brexit would plunge the country into recession.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (the fiscal watchdog) will outline how the UK economy would suffer if Britain fell out of the EU without a deal.

Under the OBR’s no-deal scenario, the UK economy would contract in 2020, and end up 3% smaller in five years time.

The warning will come in the OBR’s new Fiscal Risks Report for 2019, released today. This is a serious, weighty report, looking at the strength and weaknesses of the UK public finances, and the threats which could undermine them in the future''

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2019/jul/18/no-deal-brexit-uk-recession-obr-fiscal-risks-retail-sales-business.

[Bentley Bullet]

''No-deal Brexit 'would send UK into recession', forecasters fear - business''

But apparently they have released this forecast before speaking to the brains trust on the Viking Chat Forum.

''A new healthcheck on Britain’s economy is expected to warn today that a no-deal Brexit would plunge the country into recession.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (the fiscal watchdog) will outline how the UK economy would suffer if Britain fell out of the EU without a deal.

Under the OBR’s no-deal scenario, the UK economy would contract in 2020, and end up 3% smaller in five years time.

The warning will come in the OBR’s new Fiscal Risks Report for 2019, released today. This is a serious, weighty report, looking at the strength and weaknesses of the UK public finances, and the threats which could undermine them in the future''

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2019/jul/18/no-deal-brexit-uk-recession-obr-fiscal-risks-retail-sales-business.

You mean they haven't even consulted you? How stupid of them!

[SydneyRover]

perverse
/pəˈvəːs/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: perverse

    1.
    showing a deliberate and obstinate desire to behave in a way that is unreasonable or unacceptable.
    "Kate's perverse decision not to cooperate held good"
    synonyms:   awkward, contrary, difficult, unreasonable, uncooperative, unhelpful, obstructive, disobliging, unaccommodating, troublesome, tiresome, annoying, vexatious, obstreperous, disobedient, unmanageable, uncontrollable, recalcitrant, refractory, rebellious; More
    wilful, headstrong, self-willed, capricious, wayward, cross-grained, stubborn, obstinate, obdurate, pertinacious, mulish, pig-headed, bull-headed, intractable, intransigent, inflexible;
    thrawn;
    informalcussed;
    informalbloody-minded, bolshie, stroppy;
    informalbalky;
    archaicfroward, contumacious;
    rarecontrarious
    "he is being deliberately perverse"
    antonyms:   accommodating, cooperative
    2.
    contrary to the accepted or expected standard or practice.
    "in two general elections the outcome was quite perverse"
    synonyms:   illogical, irrational, unreasonable, contradictory, wrong, wrong-headed, incorrect, irregular, inappropriate, unorthodox; informalbackasswards
    "juries often come up with a verdict that is manifestly perverse"
    antonyms:   reasonable
        Law
        (of a verdict) against the weight of evidence or the direction of the judge on a point of law.
   

[Bentley Bullet]

I don't think the forecasters are quite that bad, but you'd have thought they would have consulted you, I agree.

[MachoMadness]

Interesting how much the goalposts have shifted on Brexit. At first it was going to be the greatest thing ever, ushering in a great new era for Britain. There'd be a smile on the face of every child and money in everyone's pockets. Now we have Boris Johnson on stage waving a fish about and saying we will still have drinking water and planes will still fly. And people are still fired up about the whole thing. Truly strange times.

[SydneyRover]

Interesting how much the goalposts have shifted on Brexit. At first it was going to be the greatest thing ever, ushering in a great new era for Britain. There'd be a smile on the face of every child and money in everyone's pockets. Now we have Boris Johnson on stage waving a fish about and saying we will still have drinking water and planes will still fly. And people are still fired up about the whole thing. Truly strange times.

Truly strange people MM

[SydneyRover]

'''Like Corporal Jones ... running around like idiots' - European commissioner ridicules UK's Brexit negotiators

Tonight the BBC is showing a Panorama programme made by Nick Robinson exploring why the Brexit talks failed. Among the people he interviewed was Frans Timmermans, the first vice president of the European commission.

As Politico Europe reports, Timmermans said that before the negotiations started the EU assumed that the British team would be “brilliant” because of the professionalism of their civil service. But the EU quickly realised this was not the case, Timmermans said. He went on:

And then the first time I saw public utterances by David Davis and I saw him not coming [to Brussels], not negotiating, grandstanding elsewhere I thought: ‘Oh my God, they haven’t got a plan, they haven’t got a plan’.

That was really shocking frankly, because the damage if you don’t have a plan — you know, we see it — time’s running out and you don’t have a plan, it’s like Lance Corporal Jones — you know, ‘Don’t panic, don’t panic’, running around like idiots''

Frans Timmermans, what would he know?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_Timmermans#Honours_and_decorations

[Glyn_Wigley]

When all the civil servants in the Brexit Department had to be almost forcibly seconded from other departments (because no-one wanted to go there) and those seconded had no knowledge of the matter at hand because they came from departments dealing with other specialisms, it didn't bode well for the professionalism immediately expected of them. There was no way on God's Earth they would be anywhere up to speed on the intricacies of EU Law and International Trade. Perhaps too much was relied on the EU falling over themselves to give us everything we wanted because 'they need us more than we need them'?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Argh!

The architects of this shit storm knew and know damn well that the EU wasn't going to fall over themselves to give us everything we wanted. It's not difficult to see that, and Farage, Johnson, Davis, Gove, Rees-Mogg etc are anything but stupid.

They KNOW that we're not going to get a deal that is better than staying in. But it was never, ever about what was good for the country.

Period.

You have to understand that if you're going to see the logic.

The entire Brexit process has been about a fight for the heart and soul of the Right wing in British politics. It's been won hands down by the far-right and we're about to get a PM who has sold whatever soul he had to the Farageist. Those of you who claim to be left wing and have supported Brexit, that's what you've done.

[selby]

  The most interesting outcome being played out at the moment is how both the left leaning parties in the USA and Britain, the Democrats and the Labour party are losing popularity, and in some ways credibility.
   The labour party is falling apart, losing voters every month, and falling further behind. With any past leadership and common sense policies they would be romping it, but the career politicians that front them now, straight out of university, with no life experience, smug attitudes, and political correctness coming out of their ears are just a turn off.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The only good thing about it being Johnson that's sold his soul to Farage and the ERG is that's he's just as likely to welsh on them as he has everybody else who aren't any use to him personally any more.

[Glyn_Wigley]

  The most interesting outcome being played out at the moment is how both the left leaning parties in the USA and Britain, the Democrats and the Labour party are losing popularity, and in some ways credibility.
   The labour party is falling apart, losing voters every month, and falling further behind. With any past leadership and common sense policies they would be romping it, but the career politicians that front them now, straight out of university, with no life experience, smug attitudes, and political correctness coming out of their ears are just a turn off.

In Labour's case it's nothing to do with Brexit, its internal due to the uselessness of the leadership.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby.

Do you ever leave the house? Those opinions about Labour politicians are years out of date.

There are many things you can have a pop at Labour politicians for, but lack of life experience is hardly one of them.

Yes, Corbyn has been a life-long politician or activist, but most of the rest of the Shadow Cabinet had extensive careers outside politics.

John McDonnell worked for a trades union for a decade.
Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Andy McDonald each worked for over 20 years as solicitors/barristers. Richard Burgon did for over a decade.
Dianne Abbott was a civil servant and a researcher for Thames Television and GMTV.
Angela Rayner worked as a care assistant.
Nia Griffiths and Margaret Greenwood had long careers as teachers.

I don't know where you get these stereotypes from.

Granted, the next PM has done shite all other than be sacked from a series of journalist jobs, but there you go.

[wilts rover]

  The most interesting outcome being played out at the moment is how both the left leaning parties in the USA and Britain, the Democrats and the Labour party are losing popularity, and in some ways credibility.
   The labour party is falling apart, losing voters every month, and falling further behind. With any past leadership and common sense policies they would be romping it, but the career politicians that front them now, straight out of university, with no life experience, smug attitudes, and political correctness coming out of their ears are just a turn off.

Well I suppose if you ignore the Survation poll at the weekend that gave Labour a 6 point lead and most US polls then you are correct.

Which Labour politicians are you referring to btw?