Brexit deal

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, Johnson was reported to be "visibly shaken" after a briefing by senior civil servants on the consequences of No Deal.

He was told there was a likelihood of civil unrest because of problems in securing basics like life saving drugs and chemicals to ensure we have clean water.

Tell you what. If he's only just found this out, he f**king well wants visibly shaking. He wants f**king shaking till it f**king shakes some bas**rd sense into him.

Absolute fear mongering b*llocks.

Says BS, who clearly knows more about this than professionals who have been working on the consequences for 6-12 months

You know what? I wish we could insulate the grown ups from the effects of No Deal and let you soft lads have it to yourselves. Own it like you deserve to do.

But you won't have to experience it. Because the grown ups will make sure it doesn't happen. And you lot will go on whining about how you've been betrayed, like little kids stopped from drinking bleach by their parents.

[Bentley Bullet]

You sure about that?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Glyn. He knows the square root of f**k all about this.

If we leave with No Deal, the Irish border becomes a border between two entirely different, and unco-ordinated economic systems. Of COURSE there will be checks on both sides, otherwise the integrity of both the British economic system and the EU system are compromised. How do you enforce British standards if you have no way of stopping stuff coming in from a market that you have elected to leave?

I've just driven from France into Switzerland. Switzerland is far more integrated into the EU than we would be in the case of No Deal. But we were stopped at the border checkpoint and asked about our journey. Passports shown.

Picture that in Crossmaglen...

[Bentley Bullet]

What do you mean if we leave with no deal? You just said the grown-ups will make sure it doesn't happen! Make your mind up!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Go to bed BB. You get stupifyingly boring around this time of night.

[Bentley Bullet]

And you talk contradictory b*llocks.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just go to bed.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, have you ever thought of entering the PvO tournament? I'm sure you'd find it much easier to get a forecast right, and much less important if you don't. Go on, I challenge you. Who knows, maybe your entry might open the floodgates to some of your disciples.

I won't hold my breath!

[Boomstick]

Meanwhile, Johnson was reported to be "visibly shaken" after a briefing by senior civil servants on the consequences of No Deal.

He was told there was a likelihood of civil unrest because of problems in securing basics like life saving drugs and chemicals to ensure we have clean water.

Tell you what. If he's only just found this out, he f**king well wants visibly shaking. He wants f**king shaking till it f**king shakes some bas**rd sense into him.

Absolute fear mongering b*llocks.

Says BS, who clearly knows more about this than professionals who have been working on the consequences for 6-12 months

You know what? I wish we could insulate the grown ups from the effects of No Deal and let you soft lads have it to yourselves. Own it like you deserve to do.

But you won't have to experience it. Because the grown ups will make sure it doesn't happen. And you lot will go on whining about how you've been betrayed, like little kids stopped from drinking bleach by their parents.

You got a link to whoever reported that the pm was visibly shaken?

[SydneyRover]

https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/cfx8i1/boris_johnson_left_visibly_shaken_after_being/

https://ukmagazine2019.blogspot.com/2019/07/boris-johnson-left-visibly-shaken-after.html

https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1152837877539246080

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/boris-johnsons-hard-brexit-challenge/news-story/b5981dd40e68e040042b489a1dd9

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/no-deal-brexit-these-are-the-governments-priority-imports/

http://www.northhertsforeurope.org.uk/no-deal-brexit-what-might-the-consequences-be-july-2019/

He could well have been visibly shaking with laughter at all those that support him.

[SydneyRover]

''Leave Ireland alone! US politicians slap Johnson with Brexit warning
IRISH-AMERICAN politicians and business leaders have expressed concern over a hard border being thrown up on the island of Ireland, which would endanger the Good Friday Agreement''

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1159802/brexit-news-irish-americans-good-friday-agreement-hard-border

''Boris Johnson rattles Irish peace, but his arrogance may backfire with Irish reunification''

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/465404-ireland-johnson-brexit-border/

Boris the champion shows the world how to reward voters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOivzoRc0I8

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Meanwhile, Johnson was reported to be "visibly shaken" after a briefing by senior civil servants on the consequences of No Deal.

He was told there was a likelihood of civil unrest because of problems in securing basics like life saving drugs and chemicals to ensure we have clean water.

Tell you what. If he's only just found this out, he f**king well wants visibly shaking. He wants f**king shaking till it f**king shakes some bas**rd sense into him.

Absolute fear mongering b*llocks.

What's going to happen at the Irish border when No Deal happens then?

Nothing.  Only the eu can enforce something happening if uk says no.

Eh? It'll be a hard border, it has to be.

Here's a question - why?  Is it not the case that actually a bit of radical thinking could throw up a different suggestion?  Norther Ireland don't want it, the rest of the UK doesn't want it, the ROI doesn't want it, so why actually have it?  Ah again, the notion of protecting the EU...  It only has to be there if people actually want it.

[SydneyRover]

Meanwhile, Johnson was reported to be "visibly shaken" after a briefing by senior civil servants on the consequences of No Deal.

He was told there was a likelihood of civil unrest because of problems in securing basics like life saving drugs and chemicals to ensure we have clean water.

Tell you what. If he's only just found this out, he f**king well wants visibly shaking. He wants f**king shaking till it f**king shakes some bas**rd sense into him.

Absolute fear mongering b*llocks.

What's going to happen at the Irish border when No Deal happens then?

Nothing.  Only the eu can enforce something happening if uk says no.

Eh? It'll be a hard border, it has to be.

Here's a question - why?  Is it not the case that actually a bit of radical thinking could throw up a different suggestion?  Norther Ireland don't want it, the rest of the UK doesn't want it, the ROI doesn't want it, so why actually have it?  Ah again, the notion of protecting the EU...  It only has to be there if people actually want it.

I'll jump in BFYP and assume/hope you're referring to the backstop, why? no reason, reunite the two bits of Ireland.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP.

But RoI wants to be in the EU, SM and CU. Which WE are currently in.

It is us, the UK that is insisting it is going to leave the EU, SM and CU. It is OUR decision to change the status quo. Therefore, if we want to have a frictionless border with RoI (and by extension, with the whole of the CU) there is an imperative on us to propose a realistic way that this can be implemented.

It's not enough to say "Let's wish the border away." If we were to leave (happy BB?) then the border would exist as a matter of fact. Just as a border does between any two different economic sovereign areas. If you want that border to vanish, you have to find a mechanism to make it vanish.

Norway and Switzerland do that by having systems that are so closely aligned with the EU that there's effectively no difference.

We, the UK, have unilaterally decided that an approach like that is not acceptable to us. (Strictly speaking, a small cabal of Tory MPs has decided that - opinion polls say that a large majority of the population would accept Switzerland/Norway type arrangements, but that's now considered to be a betrayal of Brexit...strange days we live in.)

So, having rejected the grown up solutions, it's up to us to propose a workable alternative.

Johnson just blathers on in hand waving, Latin-quoting style about technological solutions.  Which is brilliant, except there aren't any.

The EU suggested a solution which was to keep NI in the CU, which would eliminate the problem with the Irish border. But the Tories and DUP said that was unacceptable to treat NI differently to GB.

So the EU suggested that the whole UK stays in the CU while the magic technological solution is found (the backstop). But the right wing Tories say this is utterly unacceptable.

So...

Well it's a right f**king mess isn't it? And anyone blaming it on the EU either has an agenda or has been asleep for three years.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Meanwhile, Johnson was reported to be "visibly shaken" after a briefing by senior civil servants on the consequences of No Deal.

He was told there was a likelihood of civil unrest because of problems in securing basics like life saving drugs and chemicals to ensure we have clean water.

Tell you what. If he's only just found this out, he f**king well wants visibly shaking. He wants f**king shaking till it f**king shakes some bas**rd sense into him.

Absolute fear mongering b*llocks.

What's going to happen at the Irish border when No Deal happens then?

Nothing.  Only the eu can enforce something happening if uk says no.

Eh? It'll be a hard border, it has to be.

Here's a question - why?  Is it not the case that actually a bit of radical thinking could throw up a different suggestion?  Norther Ireland don't want it, the rest of the UK doesn't want it, the ROI doesn't want it, so why actually have it?  Ah again, the notion of protecting the EU...  It only has to be there if people actually want it.

Why? Those precious WTO rules that hard Brexiteers shout so loudly that they want to have. The island of Ireland will have two separate Customs territories on it, and movements between the two  have to be controlled. If not, it's smuggler's paradise in both directions. The EU will definitely protect it's own Custom area and so will the UK, regardless of how many people don't want a hard border.

The Janet And John version is here:

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-are-the-options-for-the-irish-border-after-brexit

[selby]

  I see the currency guys are cashing in on the dumplings a bit this morning. The market makers have had the best of times skimming off for the last three years.

[SydneyRover]

  I see the currency guys are cashing in on the dumplings a bit this morning. The market makers have had the best of times skimming off for the last three years.

Buy gal washers while they're cheap and cash them in if tories decide to do what's best for the UK.

[SydneyRover]

This from a man that knows the party and it's people inside out.

Give it up for Dominic Cummings tada.

“People think, and by the way I think most people are right: ‘The Tory party is run by people who basically don’t care about people like me.’'

“That is what most people in the country have thought about the Tory party for decades. I know a lot of Tory MPs and I am sad to say the public is basically correct. Tory MPs largely do not care about these poorer people. They don’t care about the NHS. And the public has kind of cottoned on to that.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/30/dominic-cummings-tories-do-not-care-about-poor-people-or-the-nhs

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

This from a man that knows the party and it's people inside out.

Give it up for Dominic Cummings tada.

“People think, and by the way I think most people are right: ‘The Tory party is run by people who basically don’t care about people like me.’'

“That is what most people in the country have thought about the Tory party for decades. I know a lot of Tory MPs and I am sad to say the public is basically correct. Tory MPs largely do not care about these poorer people. They don’t care about the NHS. And the public has kind of cottoned on to that.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/30/dominic-cummings-tories-do-not-care-about-poor-people-or-the-nhs

I would disagree on that, if they didn't care they wouldn't have done the living wage increases and lower level tax cuts.

Having said that you can always make these accusations.  As a higher level tax payer what will the labour party offer you?  Is it not about trying to appease all parts of the spectrum in some form or is that unachievable?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

What Labour had offered ever since the Great Crash, is sensible, textbook economics that would have seen our economy growing significantly faster than it has done, and as a result, the whole cou try being significantly wealthier.

What we've actually had is a decade of the most boneheadedly stupid self-inflicted economic damage.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well THERE'S a surprise.

That liar Dominic Raab caught out lying through his lying teeth.

He claims he made it abundantly clear in the Ref campaign that No Deal might happen.

The BBC fact checkers have found no evidence of that actually happening.

As I keep asking the full-on Brexiteers here: ever think you've been had?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836

[foxbat]

Brexit a project of the rich right for the rich right by the right right. Using the support of poorer people in one of the greatest cons of modern times.

E.g. hedge fund mogul Crispin Odley. He's donated £863k to pro-Brexit campaigns & made £220m in 2016 betting against the £. Now he's funding Boris Johnson, getting his say on Brexit. Why aren't the British people? It's time for a #PeoplesVote.

[selby]

Brexit is the finish of the Labour Party, as a power it is very nearly dead.

[Boomstick]

Well THERE'S a surprise.

That liar Dominic Raab caught out lying through his lying teeth.

He claims he made it abundantly clear in the Ref campaign that No Deal might happen.

The BBC fact checkers have found no evidence of that actually happening.

As I keep asking the full-on Brexiteers here: ever think you've been had?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836

Absolutely not, I voted with the full knowledge that we may leave on wto terms and be able to trade with the rest of the planet

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well THERE'S a surprise.

That liar Dominic Raab caught out lying through his lying teeth.

He claims he made it abundantly clear in the Ref campaign that No Deal might happen.

The BBC fact checkers have found no evidence of that actually happening.

As I keep asking the full-on Brexiteers here: ever think you've been had?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836

Absolutely not, I voted with the full knowledge that we may leave on wto terms and be able to trade with the rest of the planet

We already trade with the rest of the world, we always have. It's the terms on which we do it that's going to change. And not for the better.

[foxbat]

The price of food and drink will "go through the roof" if the UK leaves the EU without a deal,
 a new study suggests.

Sorry to sound selfish, but I don't want my food prices to skyrocket just so that a small handful of extremely wealthy people can avoid paying their taxes. #StopBrexit

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well THERE'S a surprise.

That liar Dominic Raab caught out lying through his lying teeth.

He claims he made it abundantly clear in the Ref campaign that No Deal might happen.

The BBC fact checkers have found no evidence of that actually happening.

As I keep asking the full-on Brexiteers here: ever think you've been had?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836

Absolutely not, I voted with the full knowledge that we may leave on wto terms and be able to trade with the rest of the planet

This is head-banging against the wall stupidity.

As Glyn says, we already trade with the rest of the world. What "leaving on WTO rules" means is that we'd still be able to go on trading with the rest of the world as we do now except for our trade with the EU and our trade with every country in the world that the EU has a trade deal with, all of which will be harder and more expensive.

But hey! We'll have taken back control eh? The control to make decisions to make ourselves poorer and more isolated, so that's all good.

[Sprotyrover]

The price of food and drink will "go through the roof" if the UK leaves the EU without a deal,
 a new study suggests.

Sorry to sound selfish, but I don't want my food prices to skyrocket just so that a small handful of extremely wealthy people can avoid paying their taxes. #StopBrexit

Oh bugger does that mean we'll will have to buy our meat from Australia and New Zealand again? When we went into Europe The price of Lamb Trebbled, something to do with susidizing inept Farmers all over Europe I recall.

[SydneyRover]

You may need a bigger bra if you eat a lot of this Sproty.

''Australian meat industry leaders are heavily lobbying their government to put pressure on Britain to accept products currently banned under EU law after Brexit.

Among the meat products suggested for export to the UK are hormone-treated beef and “burnt goat heads”.

Ministers from both countries met last week to discuss the future of their trading relationship, amid concerns that the Australian government could force the UK to lower food standards''

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-meat-banned-eu-australia-beef-liam-fox-dit-friends-of-the-earth-a8475006.html

[wilts rover]

How 'free' are Free Trade Deals.

Excerpts from a new book Privatized Planet: Free Trade as a Weapon Against Democracy, Healthcare and the Environment and interview with it's author Prof Tim Coles

First of all, we should remember that ‘free trade’ is a propaganda term. Often the texts of ‘free trade’ deals consist of articles designed to privilege foreign (mainly US) corporations over domestic ones (‘national treatment’), to privatize public services under the pretext that public ownership is a hindrance to corporate competition, and allow for arbitration, meaning that corporations can sue governments (‘investor-state dispute settlements’).

Not much is ‘free’ in these arrangements. Notice also that my summary says little about trade; such deals are more concerned with investor-rights protections and undermining international labour and health and safety laws.

While FTAs benefit corporations, Coles continued, “the biggest loser is society at large"

these misleadingly-named investor-rights arrangements, negotiated in secret, apparently in violation of international law, profit the CEOs and shareholders of transnational, often US-based, corporations.

The biggest loser is society at large, including workers who risk lower pay and compromised health and safety, governments who have the threat of corporate lawsuits hanging over them, and the environment which suffers from corporate plunder. They also feed far-right narratives: that ‘globalists’ and ‘immigrants’ are ruining our lives.

Brexit is like jumping out of the frying pan of a neoliberal EU into the furnace of ultra-neoliberal ‘free trade’ deals.

The people who understand this, like Nigel Farage (the alleged ‘conservative nationalists’) are skilled at manipulating significant numbers of working-class people who, quite rightly, feel undermined by the EU and its ‘liberal internationalist’ supporters. The hard- and far-right parties do not attack international capitalism, which is the real root-cause of workers’ misery. They and their followers are happy to blame the most vulnerable elements of society, who are themselves also victims of neoliberalism.

https://www.thecanary.co/feature/2019/08/02/academic-warns-of-a-furnace-of-ultra-neoliberal-free-trade-deals-after-brexit/

(anyone who doesn't like The Canary please feel free to ignore all of the above)