Brexit deal

[Sprotyrover]

How 'free' are Free Trade Deals.

Excerpts from a new book Privatized Planet: Free Trade as a Weapon Against Democracy, Healthcare and the Environment and interview with it's author Prof Tim Coles

First of all, we should remember that ‘free trade’ is a propaganda term. Often the texts of ‘free trade’ deals consist of articles designed to privilege foreign (mainly US) corporations over domestic ones (‘national treatment’), to privatize public services under the pretext that public ownership is a hindrance to corporate competition, and allow for arbitration, meaning that corporations can sue governments (‘investor-state dispute settlements’).

Not much is ‘free’ in these arrangements. Notice also that my summary says little about trade; such deals are more concerned with investor-rights protections and undermining international labour and health and safety laws.

While FTAs benefit corporations, Coles continued, “the biggest loser is society at large"

these misleadingly-named investor-rights arrangements, negotiated in secret, apparently in violation of international law, profit the CEOs and shareholders of transnational, often US-based, corporations.

The biggest loser is society at large, including workers who risk lower pay and compromised health and safety, governments who have the threat of corporate lawsuits hanging over them, and the environment which suffers from corporate plunder. They also feed far-right narratives: that ‘globalists’ and ‘immigrants’ are ruining our lives.

Brexit is like jumping out of the frying pan of a neoliberal EU into the furnace of ultra-neoliberal ‘free trade’ deals.

The people who understand this, like Nigel Farage (the alleged ‘conservative nationalists’) are skilled at manipulating significant numbers of working-class people who, quite rightly, feel undermined by the EU and its ‘liberal internationalist’ supporters. The hard- and far-right parties do not attack international capitalism, which is the real root-cause of workers’ misery. They and their followers are happy to blame the most vulnerable elements of society, who are themselves also victims of neoliberalism.

https://www.thecanary.co/feature/2019/08/02/academic-warns-of-a-furnace-of-ultra-neoliberal-free-trade-deals-after-brexit/

(anyone who doesn't like The Canary please feel free to ignore all of the above)

Cheers Wilts please state at top of post that it's from the Canary to save some of us fellow posters time!

[Boomstick]

Well THERE'S a surprise.

That liar Dominic Raab caught out lying through his lying teeth.

He claims he made it abundantly clear in the Ref campaign that No Deal might happen.

The BBC fact checkers have found no evidence of that actually happening.

As I keep asking the full-on Brexiteers here: ever think you've been had?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836

Absolutely not, I voted with the full knowledge that we may leave on wto terms and be able to trade with the rest of the planet

This is head-banging against the wall stupidity.

As Glyn says, we already trade with the rest of the world. What "leaving on WTO rules" means is that we'd still be able to go on trading with the rest of the world as we do now except for our trade with the EU and our trade with every country in the world that the EU has a trade deal with, all of which will be harder and more expensive.

But hey! We'll have taken back control eh? The control to make decisions to make ourselves poorer and more isolated, so that's all good.

Aye, it's about sovereignty and immigration for me.

About time you stopped bleeting on about the economy, and have the spine admit it has nothing to do with it for you, its purely your ideology

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sovereignty to do what?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Screw the economy of course.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Read this Telegraph front page.

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1157922054294900736/photo/1

Stop and think what it means.

Boris Johnson's senior adviser is saying that if the UK's ultimate Sovereign body votes to bring down the Govt if it tries to go for No Deal, and a General Election is called because the Govt has collapsed, they will push No Deal through anyway.

This is precisely how democracies collapse folks. Right in front of your eyes. Politicians and their arsehole greasers who think they are above the usual constraints, saying "f**k you" to the processes that hold the country together.

[wilts rover]

It is also not true.

If Parliament votes No Confidence in this government then MP's have 14 days to see if another government could have the confidence of the HoC.

This caretaker government, either led by Corbyn or someone else, could then ask the EU for a further Brexit extension whilst a General Election or 2nd Referendum (or both) is set up.

So by my calculations MP's can stop a No Deal up until 17th October.

[BillyStubbsTears]

True Wilts, but putting Corbyn in No10, even in those circumstances and just for a couple of days would mean the end of any Tory MP's career.

I can see the possibility of a Popular Front emerging that puts someone else into No 10. Ken Clarke or Dominic Grieve or Yvette Cooper, say.

But. It needs a lot of very quick movement by a lot of MPs from a lot of different parties.

[wilts rover]

Yes that's the talk Billy, Keir Starmer was another name mentioned. We have mentioned it before, and I am sure we will again, but it seems at the moment that come the Autumn the fate of the country will hinge on the decisions that a dozen Tory MP's make - career or country?

I didn't read the Telegraph article - like you I only saw the headline. Have you read it and does it say what we have said here? Or is now actually printing propaganda as 'news'?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've only read the text that's readable on that image. And of course the Telegraph is the journal of the Tory party, so it's possible it's just repeating Cummings's claims to stiffen the sinews of the True Believers.

Point is though that the senior adviser to the PM is advocating f**king all over the democratic processes that underpin how our country is run. And no-one seems to bat an eyelid.

Strange days indeed.

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPIGq_eiRBU

[SydneyRover]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPIGq_eiRBU

Thanks Glyn this interview with Jonathon Powell one of the most senior and experienced negotiators and diplomats in the world puts paid to the idea that Johnson can breathe any life into Stormont as Powell points out having discussions with and being dependent on the DUP to be in government is not an impartial position making genuine negotiations impossible.

 He also points out that Johnson's precondition that the EU must give up the backstop before any negotiations means that johnson will have to back down or there will be no negotiations, that his position of trying to scare the EU into renegotiations will never work as there is no alternative to the backstop and that Ireland would have to revert to the original backstop and be in a CU alone with a border in the Irish sea.

No-deal means hard border, deal means staying in the CU, come on then all you brexit brains watch the video and then give us your answers how will you sort it out?

Or will it be the usual cop-out, I don't open links, I don't do debates unless I'm right, I don't read those newspapers, I don't have an answer so I'll ignore the post.





 

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It is a difficult one though isn't it.  Do you take a no deal or do you constantly delay and push for a general election which sees numerous Brexit party MP's taking seats?

[SydneyRover]

It is a difficult one though isn't it.  Do you take a no deal or do you constantly delay and push for a general election which sees numerous Brexit party MP's taking seats?

Almost everything has been tried by the government except genuine cross party negotiations so unless they do and I can't really see boris entertaining that then a general election will be the only outcome which may or may not resolve anything. As has been said by many no-deal is financial and political suicide for all except maybe farage if he could field and win enough seats.

[Glyn_Wigley]

It is a difficult one though isn't it.  Do you take a no deal or do you constantly delay and push for a general election which sees numerous Brexit party MP's taking seats?

Or the Norway option pushed so hard at the time of the Referendum that would do away with the need for a backstop?

[Dutch Uncle]

Just to throw something else into this.

Did anyone else see the BBC's Beyond 100 Days last week (30 July)?

https://archive.org/details/BBCNEWS_20190730_180000_Beyond_100_Days

The  interview at about 7:43 p.m. was with a former US senator who is part of a committee set up to 'Protect the Good Friday Agreement'. The gist was that there are so many 'Irish' Americans worried about a hard border, including members of the 'Ways and Means Committee'. This committee will be required to accept any trade deal the UK makes with the US, and it is likely (according to the interviewee at least) to block any such deal in the event of a no deal Brexit and a hard border.

Very scary to hear such things from the basket we look to be putting all our eggs in. 

[Dutch Uncle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPIGq_eiRBU

This 6 minute interview is spot on. Everyone should watch it, especially anyone who might actually be negotiating with the EU and Ireland.

[bobjimwilly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPIGq_eiRBU

This 6 minute interview is spot on. Everyone should watch it, especially anyone who might actually be negotiating with the EU and Ireland.

If only we had a government run by people who listen to logic and reason...

[albie]

A scenario plan of the possibles before Oct 31;
http://www.democraticaudit.com/2019/08/05/is-it-too-late-to-stop-a-no-deal-brexit/

Cummings seems set on making the default stick.....wait and see on whether the rebel Tories have enough backbone to risk their careers and noses in the trough.

What to do about the likes of Mann and Flint is the Labour dilemma?

[SydneyRover]

Headline: Wine prices could be slashed in UK in a year if Boris Johnson strikes bold post-Brexit trade deal with Australia.

Reality: Currently the tariffs on wines imported from Australia and New Zealand into the UK work out at around 10-12p added to a bottle of still wine and 22p on sparkling wine and hopes a trade deal can be struck quickly-like all the others the UK has signed recently?

The political pygmies are still at it, George Brandis praising a known liar and racist.

''In an interview with Politico he said he was a "unashamed fan" of Boris and was hugely positive about signing a quick trade deal with Britain, too.

"My advice to the U.K. government is to be bold and not be afraid of free trade agreements," he said.

He hopes such a deal can be reached "before the end of 2020" or even earlier, pointing to the speed at which they've done similar deals before.

"It only took 15 months for Australia to complete our very very ambitious FTA that is with the U.S. some 15 years ago.
"The political will to do it is there.”

Be patient with this video you could learn a lot about metadata from the great man.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=George+Brandis+Metadata

[Glyn_Wigley]

Headline: Wine prices could be slashed in UK in a year if Boris Johnson strikes bold post-Brexit trade deal with Australia.

Reality: Currently the tariffs on wines imported from Australia and New Zealand into the UK work out at around 10-12p added to a bottle of still wine and 22p on sparkling wine and hopes a trade deal can be struck quickly-like all the others the UK has signed recently?

The political pygmies are still at it, George Brandis praising a known liar and racist.

''In an interview with Politico he said he was a "unashamed fan" of Boris and was hugely positive about signing a quick trade deal with Britain, too.

"My advice to the U.K. government is to be bold and not be afraid of free trade agreements," he said.

He hopes such a deal can be reached "before the end of 2020" or even earlier, pointing to the speed at which they've done similar deals before.

"It only took 15 months for Australia to complete our very very ambitious FTA that is with the U.S. some 15 years ago.
"The political will to do it is there.”

Be patient with this video you could learn a lot about metadata from the great man.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=George+Brandis+Metadata

How's Boris going to slash the Excise Duty on wine from Australia then? That's much, much more than 10p a bottle. Sheesh.

[SydneyRover]

With no-deal or a poor deal Glyn VAT will be the concern for most as it could easily go up 50% or more to cover the losses from trade overall?

[Glyn_Wigley]

With no-deal or a poor deal Glyn VAT will be the concern for most as it could easily go up 50% or more to cover the losses from trade overall?

VAT is an EU tax that's mandatory for all member states. It could be replaced with something else after Brexit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's very, very unlikely that a Tory Govt would replace VAT. Thatcher, Major and Cameron all increased it.

It's the tax of choice for right-wingers because it is disproportionately paid by poorer people, whereas income and inheritance tax are disproportionately paid by rich people.

[Bentley Bullet]

Wasn't the introduction of VAT a condition of the UK joining the EEC in 1973?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Aye. At 10%. And it basically replaced a Purchase Tax we'd had since the War.

I'm not against a sales tax per se. Pretty much every developed economy has one. It helps control consumption.

But in the UK,it was introduced at 10% by Heath. Reduced to 8% under Wilson. Increased to 15% by Thatcher and 17.5% by Major, reduced to 15% under Brown and increased to 20% under Cameron.

Draw your own conclusions.

[Bentley Bullet]

10%

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes, I've corrected it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see this little shite is stirring the pot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49251257

What, precisely, are the EU supposed to negotiate with us that they haven't spent the past 30 months negotiating?

This is the plan though. Have no f**king plan whatsoever for negotiations, blame the EU for not negotiating, then call an election and assume there'll be enough Pavlov Dog anti-EU votes to get them in.

[Bentley Bullet]

The EU has a minimum VAT rate of 15% for its member countries, so Jezza's generosity wouldn't be allowed to compare to that of Heath or Wilson even if he got into power.

[wilts rover]

"We hold all the cards"
"We hold all the card"
"We old are the card"
"We ol dare the card"
"We o dare the cad”
"We odare thu cad"
"We dare thucad"
"We are thuckad"
"We are thucked"
"We are f**ked”

Shamelessly stolen from this bloke https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1158781096684871680