Brexit deal

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I think there is every chance of that.  A lot of minds should be focussed now that this may well be the least chance ever for a deal, particularly with a potential eye on an election.

I tend to agree with Nick Robinson's (BBC) points on twitter win-win for Johnson, deal and he delivers his 31st promise, no deal and he tells voters "look not my fault, I did a deal, they voted it down".

[IDM]

He is legally bound to seek an extension if there isn’t a deal in place, under the Benn act, isn’t he.?

I still believe he wants no deal, otherwise why did he try to shut down parliament to prevent them trying to block no deal.?

If the EU or parliament doesn’t agree this deal, and if the Benn Act is followed, but there are no alternative deals, what can we do.?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

He is legally bound to seek an extension if there isn’t a deal in place, under the Benn act, isn’t he.?

I still believe he wants no deal, otherwise why did he try to shut down parliament to prevent them trying to block no deal.?

If the EU or parliament doesn’t agree this deal, and if the Benn Act is followed, but there are no alternative deals, what can we do.?

The EU could say no (unlikely).
General election (likely).
Referendum (potentially).

I can't quite figure out why such the big change in him, did they realise they couldn't just do what they wanted?  Afterall BJ is all about himself he won't want to lose power.  Was it genuinely all in the plan all along perhaps?

[BillyStubbsTears]

It reads to me like a compromise, some wins, some not.  It feels like a fairly sensible deal on the face of it no?

So why was Johnson dead set against this 12 and 4 months ago. What's changed since then?

DUP have now said that they're not voting for this deal. So it comes down to a dozen or so Labour MPs like Hoey, Mann and Flint.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It reads to me like a compromise, some wins, some not.  It feels like a fairly sensible deal on the face of it no?

So why was Johnson dead set against this 12 and 4 months ago. What's changed since then?

DUP have now said that they're not voting for this deal. So it comes down to a dozen or so Labour MPs like Hoey, Mann and Flint.

Million € question....

I'd say power, power, power.

Juncker has just given him a big boost though saying no extension.  If the EU say that it's a done deal.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Juncker doesn't have the authority to make that decision. If the deal is voted down on Saturday, there is no way on earth the EU wouldn't agree to an extension.

[DonnyOsmond]

It reads to me like a compromise, some wins, some not.  It feels like a fairly sensible deal on the face of it no?

So why was Johnson dead set against this 12 and 4 months ago. What's changed since then?

DUP have now said that they're not voting for this deal. So it comes down to a dozen or so Labour MPs like Hoey, Mann and Flint.

Million € question....

I'd say power, power, power.

Juncker has just given him a big boost though saying no extension.  If the EU say that it's a done deal.

We've gone from them wanting to threaten the EU with no deal to threatening our own MPs with no deal.

[Not Now Kato]

It reads to me like a compromise, some wins, some not.  It feels like a fairly sensible deal on the face of it no?

So why was Johnson dead set against this 12 and 4 months ago. What's changed since then?

DUP have now said that they're not voting for this deal. So it comes down to a dozen or so Labour MPs like Hoey, Mann and Flint.

Million € question....

I'd say power, power, power.

Juncker has just given him a big boost though saying no extension.  If the EU say that it's a done deal.

More rubbish from the Daily Mail perhaps?  Juncker doesn't have the authority to do that.

[keith79]

Dont the EU have to approve  an extension? What happens if they say no it needs to be sorted by the 31st

[IDM]

If they say no, and the Benn Act precludes no deal, then they either need to find another deal before 31 Oct or revoke article 50..

[DonnyOsmond]

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1184834973662175234?s=19

Wtf

[selby]

  IDM, the So called Ben act has no jurisdiction on the EU, if they say it is this deal or no deal,   and bear in mind they are happy with the agreement because it suits them, they will threaten the no deal as an alternative and throw their mates to the Lions.
  The EU industrialists are thoroughly fed up and starting to make waves, The EU threat to the city has dissipated, and was a non starter anyway.
   It is beginning to look as though Boso and his advisory have completely out manoeuvred the opposition and is just letting them back themselves into a corner  screaming and shouting.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Juncker doesn't have the authority to make that decision. If the deal is voted down on Saturday, there is no way on earth the EU wouldn't agree to an extension.

Yes he doesn't, very hard to know who has and hasn't so rely on the press.

The numbers are actually quite tight in parliament, even without the DUP if he can convince all of the current Tories and independent Tories he doesn't need that many from Labour.

[Glyn_Wigley]

  IDM, the So called Ben act has no jurisdiction on the EU, if they say it is this deal or no deal,   and bear in mind they are happy with the agreement because it suits them, they will threaten the no deal as an alternative and throw their mates to the Lions.
  The EU industrialists are thoroughly fed up and starting to make waves, The EU threat to the city has dissipated, and was a non starter anyway.
   It is beginning to look as though Boso and his advisory have completely out manoeuvred the opposition and is just letting them back themselves into a corner  screaming and shouting.

So when Parliament votes against this deal, it'll be because Boris has outmanoeuvred them..?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Juncker doesn't have the authority to make that decision. If the deal is voted down on Saturday, there is no way on earth the EU wouldn't agree to an extension.

Yes he doesn't, very hard to know who has and hasn't so rely on the press.

The numbers are actually quite tight in parliament, even without the DUP if he can convince all of the current Tories and independent Tories he doesn't need that many from Labour.

If he's without the DUP he'll also be without several of the ERG who have always said they'll only support a deal that the DUP also supports.

[IDM]

  IDM, the So called Ben act has no jurisdiction on the EU, if they say it is this deal or no deal,   and bear in mind they are happy with the agreement because it suits them, they will threaten the no deal as an alternative and throw their mates to the Lions.
  The EU industrialists are thoroughly fed up and starting to make waves, The EU threat to the city has dissipated, and was a non starter anyway.
   It is beginning to look as though Boso and his advisory have completely out manoeuvred the opposition and is just letting them back themselves into a corner  screaming and shouting.

So...

Parliament rejects the deal..
BJ is forced to ask for an extension..
The EU says no extension, no new deal
Parliament debates no deal, rejects no deal.
The only option then is revoking article 50..

[selby]

The opposition parties are toast in any future election if they follow that line, and they know it. self preservation and greed will now come to the fore.
 They have set their sights on a deal for too long, adding that they respect the outcome of the referendum publically even in the last few weeks thinking that Bojo was not interested in a deal. he was lying when saying he wanted a deal, they would back a deal if it were offered, we want to work to a deal, there should be a cross party committee to get a deal, anything but no deal, now the covers are off, they want nothing less than staying in the EU against the electorates wishes.
  Most better look in the vacancies column come the next election.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Interesting discussion on R4 earlier.

Suggesting Johnson knows damn well Parliament won't pass his deal because he knows the DUP can't support it. So he's doing this as positioning for the Election. "I've tried my best but Parliament won't play ball."

That's the only way you can make sense out of him turning 180 degrees on all the red lines he said he'd never break.

But he may have overplayed his hand here, now Labour are saying they'll whip to vote for Ref2.

On Saturday, if the deal gets voted down, it's looking very much like there'll be the numbers to vote for Ref2 straight after.

Interesting couple of days coming up.

[i_ateallthepies]

Just how? How can anyone even for a second consider voting for him? How little self-respect must you have to allow yourself to be bullshitted like this and still support him?

It reads to me like a compromise, some wins, some not.  It feels like a fairly sensible deal on the face of it no?

[Ldr]

  IDM, the So called Ben act has no jurisdiction on the EU, if they say it is this deal or no deal,   and bear in mind they are happy with the agreement because it suits them, they will threaten the no deal as an alternative and throw their mates to the Lions.
  The EU industrialists are thoroughly fed up and starting to make waves, The EU threat to the city has dissipated, and was a non starter anyway.
   It is beginning to look as though Boso and his advisory have completely out manoeuvred the opposition and is just letting them back themselves into a corner  screaming and shouting.

So...

Parliament rejects the deal..
BJ is forced to ask for an extension..
The EU says no extension, no new deal
Parliament debates no deal, rejects no deal.
The only option then is revoking article 50..

Still wrong, default legal position is to leave 31st, Benn act requires pm to seek extension if the deal is not passed by parliament or a no deal brexit is not approved by parliament by Saturday. If EU do not agree to an extension we leave with no deal

[selby]

Billy, that is the first time I have thought you are grasping at straws.

[IDM]

  IDM, the So called Ben act has no jurisdiction on the EU, if they say it is this deal or no deal,   and bear in mind they are happy with the agreement because it suits them, they will threaten the no deal as an alternative and throw their mates to the Lions.
  The EU industrialists are thoroughly fed up and starting to make waves, The EU threat to the city has dissipated, and was a non starter anyway.
   It is beginning to look as though Boso and his advisory have completely out manoeuvred the opposition and is just letting them back themselves into a corner  screaming and shouting.

So...

Parliament rejects the deal..
BJ is forced to ask for an extension..
The EU says no extension, no new deal
Parliament debates no deal, rejects no deal.
The only option then is revoking article 50..

Still wrong, default legal position is to leave 31st, Benn act requires pm to seek extension if the deal is not passed by parliament or a no deal brexit is not approved by parliament by Saturday. If EU do not agree to an extension we leave with no deal

You think Parliament will allow that.?

[Ldr]

If the EU reject an extension parliament has no choice

[scawsby steve]

  IDM, the So called Ben act has no jurisdiction on the EU, if they say it is this deal or no deal,   and bear in mind they are happy with the agreement because it suits them, they will threaten the no deal as an alternative and throw their mates to the Lions.
  The EU industrialists are thoroughly fed up and starting to make waves, The EU threat to the city has dissipated, and was a non starter anyway.
   It is beginning to look as though Boso and his advisory have completely out manoeuvred the opposition and is just letting them back themselves into a corner  screaming and shouting.

So...

Parliament rejects the deal..
BJ is forced to ask for an extension..
The EU says no extension, no new deal
Parliament debates no deal, rejects no deal.
The only option then is revoking article 50..

Still wrong, default legal position is to leave 31st, Benn act requires pm to seek extension if the deal is not passed by parliament or a no deal brexit is not approved by parliament by Saturday. If EU do not agree to an extension we leave with no deal

You think Parliament will allow that.?

How can they stop it? Some of you are starting to sound desperate now.

[DonnyOsmond]

I'd consider it. Any deal is better than no deal.

[wilts rover]

I'd consider it. Any deal is better than no deal.

You are Boris Johnson and I claim my used kipper/pork pie/bit of everest that collapsed in 2014....

[Glyn_Wigley]

If the EU reject an extension parliament has no choice

It has the choice to vote to revoke.

[SydneyRover]

So the big red bus such a favourite with johnson looks like it's going to back over him?

''EU leaves door open to Brexit extension, in blow to Boris Johnson

Member states decline to follow Jean-Claude Juncker, who ‘ruled out’ further delay''

looks like junker didn't have the authority after all aye, who got that correct?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/17/boris-johnson-and-eu-reach-brexit-deal-without-dup-backing

[DonnyOsmond]

I'd consider it. Any deal is better than no deal.

You are Boris Johnson and I claim my used kipper/pork pie/bit of everest that collapsed in 2014....

Anyone with half a brain knows stopping everything including medicine from one moment is suicide for a country. Anything where we carrying on receiving goods and the services which were used to is the same option. There is no reason for Brexit, no positive but I'm fine with it to happen as long as we get a deal just to make the ridiculous 52% of the voters happy.

[SydneyRover]

but that won't make them happy Donny, they want to take back control, massive trade deals where we sell goods at a top price and buy at next to nothing, where every day is summer, beer and skittles and all that.