Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Donnyjim on November 21, 2017, 09:47:26 pm
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Going no where, apart from down. I'm afraid the current manager and team are shite and we are heading back to L2, pure and simple. The only way to change this is with some movement in the transfer window and a change of management. Neither will happen - league 2 here we come. :turd:
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This season does have that feeling about it.
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Still convinced we won't go down Jim. Having said that I said that 2 seasons ago! 😀😀
There is some truth in your post though: this set of players is not good enough for this division (to do well in this division I mean) and I'm not a hugs DF fan. But to be fair, who else would we get? Any manager coming in would say 'we need to invest in new players because this lot is struggling. How much money do I have?'
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Hahaha aup Jim have a good evening mate.
Jesus wept.
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Not like you to over react DonnyJim!!
They were a Championship team last season we were a league 2 team. They have a great home record & I expected a defeat tonight. Lets move on.
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I am not sure that is right that we will go down. I do not think we are going down. I am pretty certain we will be safe.
It was a tough game tonight and while it matched the biggest beating handed out by Wigan at home this season, it is clearly a tough place to go for anyone.
What is an open question is whether we are actually progressing under the current manager. At League One level there remains some remarkable consistency under the current manager:
2015/16 season - 35 games, 35 points - 1.00 points per game
2017/18 season - 19 games, 20 points - 1.05 points per game
It really is quite something. A point a game.
Different seasons, different players, different opposition. A point a game.
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Still convinced we won't go down Jim. Having said that I said that 2 seasons ago! 😀😀
There is some truth in your post though: this set of players is not good enough for this division (to do well in this division I mean) and I'm not a hugs DF fan. But to be fair, who else would we get? Any manager coming in would say 'we need to invest in new players because this lot is struggling. How much money do I have?'
Who would we get ?
Who knows, but it could be someone who got the team doing well.
There are plenty of good football managers out there and one could just be the right fit.
The alternative presumably is to plod along towards L2 and do nothing about it.
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Ban this Kitson.
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I am not sure that is right that we will go down. I do not think we are going down. I am pretty certain we will be safe.
It was a tough game tonight and while it matched the biggest beating handed out by Wigan at home this season, it is clearly a tough place to go for anyone.
What is an open question is whether we are actually progressing under the current manager. At League One level there remains some remarkable consistency under the current manager:
2015/16 season - 35 games, 35 points - 1.00 points per game
2017/18 season - 19 games, 20 points - 1.05 points per game
It really is quite something. A point a game.
Different seasons, different players, different opposition. A point a game.
Have we progressed since the current owners took over the club. They have tried different managers and players yet we are still treading water as a club.
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Goals are proving a massive issue. Sounds stupid after getting thumped tonight but it's a wider issue.
With Fergie you're never going to get a solid defence. So you need to be an attacking force.
We've scored 1 in the last 3 and that was an own goal.
He had the resources at Peterborough to go out and buy up and coming gems who were prolific attackers (Boyd, McLean, Mackail-Smith et al.). Big question marks over whether his style is as effective on a budget.
We've been harder to beat in recent weeks but it was all undone tonight, albeit by a good side. Saturday will be interesting, and the season as a whole feels like another that will go down to the wire.
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Here we go, same old inquest after a loss. Wigan are favourite's to go up. Not worth losing sleep over or winding people up.
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I am not sure that is right that we will go down. I do not think we are going down. I am pretty certain we will be safe.
It was a tough game tonight and while it matched the biggest beating handed out by Wigan at home this season, it is clearly a tough place to go for anyone.
What is an open question is whether we are actually progressing under the current manager. At League One level there remains some remarkable consistency under the current manager:
2015/16 season - 35 games, 35 points - 1.00 points per game
2017/18 season - 19 games, 20 points - 1.05 points per game
It really is quite something. A point a game.
Different seasons, different players, different opposition. A point a game.
Have we progressed since the current owners took over the club. They have tried different managers and players yet we are still treading water as a club.
I think the current owners are free of blame here. They had the unenviable task of putting the club back into the financial real world. We were consistently churning through a loss of several millions each season that was not sustainable. We were simply living way beyond our means.
What many will be frustrated with is that even by cutting our cloth, we still should be expected to have a decent "competitive" budget at League One level and ideally, a manager who can wring something extra out of the squad that the budget produces. Water into wine. It is not clear that this is happening.
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Ban this Kitson.
Was that aimed at me Gaz ?
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Forget all this talk about our performances not getting the results we deserve.. For us to win a game no matter who we play we have to be at 100%.We are just too easy to beat. Wigan won at a canter tonight.We are a couple of points of relegation and despite fans inflated sentimental opinions of most of our players, that's were we deserve to be..
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Might just be me, but I thought Wigan are a top 2 team who only got relegated from the Championship last season? But yeah, we should be thrashing TLO Wigan, shouldn't we Donnyjim?
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I am not sure that is right that we will go down. I do not think we are going down. I am pretty certain we will be safe.
It was a tough game tonight and while it matched the biggest beating handed out by Wigan at home this season, it is clearly a tough place to go for anyone.
What is an open question is whether we are actually progressing under the current manager. At League One level there remains some remarkable consistency under the current manager:
2015/16 season - 35 games, 35 points - 1.00 points per game
2017/18 season - 19 games, 20 points - 1.05 points per game
It really is quite something. A point a game.
Different seasons, different players, different opposition. A point a game.
Last couple of weeks it hasn't been averaging a point a game.
It changes every week, bit silly to keep posting it every time it equates.
After the bury game it was nothing like
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I am not sure that is right that we will go down. I do not think we are going down. I am pretty certain we will be safe.
It was a tough game tonight and while it matched the biggest beating handed out by Wigan at home this season, it is clearly a tough place to go for anyone.
What is an open question is whether we are actually progressing under the current manager. At League One level there remains some remarkable consistency under the current manager:
2015/16 season - 35 games, 35 points - 1.00 points per game
2017/18 season - 19 games, 20 points - 1.05 points per game
It really is quite something. A point a game.
Different seasons, different players, different opposition. A point a game.
Last couple of weeks it hasn't been averaging a point a game.
It changes every week, bit silly to keep posting it every time it equates.
After the bury game it was nothing like
He's obsessed I'm afraid.
Sometimes these games go like they did tonight, away to a clearly superior footballing side. On another night, Marquis scores before the break and maybe we get something. We won 3-1 at Blackburn and were well worth that win, so it's not like we're incapable.
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Think ferguson should've changed it before half time
Blair was getting murdered and it wasn't his fault
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What was the team formation
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Think ferguson should've changed it before half time
Blair was getting murdered and it wasn't his fault
Dickos having a go at our manager? Hold the back page!
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Not having a go
Just giving my opinion,
Did you go?
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Ban this Kitson.
You'd have thought calling someone a Kitson for voicing their opinion would be more worthy of a ban.
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It's not the fact it's his opinion
It's more, the fact he comes on here minutes after every defeat saying sack the manager
And also disappears when we win
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Lets put this result into perspective.
Wigan have played 9 home games so far and there record is W6 D2 L1. The loss was against a promotion rival and one of the draws was against a promotion rival. They have won three home games by a score of 3-0 & one by a score of 4-1. Surely only the most optimistic or craziest Rovers fans expected a positive result tonight. Not many teams will get anything from the DW this season.
Lets just see how we fare against the lesser teams from now on now we have found our feet at this level.
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I watched the game live on I follow .
No doubt that is a good strong Wigan side fit for Championship status and we will meet no stronger opponent for the rest of the season .
Lawlor 6, Blair 5 Wright 7 Butler 7 Baudry 6 Toffolo 6 Houghton 6 Copps 6 Rowe 5 Kongolo 7
and a 5 for Marquis infront of goal and 8 for his energy both attacking the channels and even tracking back.
The pitch was huge and called for athleticism and the skill to make the ball do the work so to speak. They did that and we couldn't match them in vital areas for the first two goals .
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I've no problem with losing it's the manner we lost, we set up with everyone behind the ball and after 10 mins it was clear that it was not going to work, we looked better with 2 up front let's hope he learns from it
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Goals are proving a massive issue. Sounds stupid after getting thumped tonight but it's a wider issue.
With Fergie you're never going to get a solid defence. So you need to be an attacking force.
We've scored 1 in the last 3 and that was an own goal.
He had the resources at Peterborough to go out and buy up and coming gems who were prolific attackers (Boyd, McLean, Mackail-Smith et al.). Big question marks over whether his style is as effective on a budget.
We've been harder to beat in recent weeks but it was all undone tonight, albeit by a good side. Saturday will be interesting, and the season as a whole feels like another that will go down to the wire.
That is the real worry. If we could score more than the opposition it would mask the defensive frailities. But Marquis on a bad run, May injured, Williams not really wanted, no-one else up to the necessary level, where do the goals come from. Very worrying, and anyone who thinks its just because Wigan have just come down and we have just come up are not facing up to reality....
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I believe that Williams came on at half time and got injured within 20 minutes and was subbed off.
There are five teams who have scored less than us and they are all below us. Bottom of the table Bury have scored the same number as us - 19 goals or one goal per game.
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Got nothing to do with where we've both come from, Just that they're a very good side and have spanked a load of sides at home this season
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Got nothing to do with where we've both come from, Just that they're a very good side and have spanked a load of sides at home this season
So we are ok goalscoring then?
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Not having a go
Just giving my opinion,
Did you go?
Yeah, we were shit, did you pal?
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Pure and simple we was shit tonight for me not one player played well Marquis could of and should of got 2 bit he missed 2 sitters, beestin when he came on just stood with his hands on his hips most of the time
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Getting beat isn't the worst thing, the lack of application is. I can take the team getting beat so long as they've had a right good go at it, put their bodies on their line and let the opposition know they've been in a game. Can anyone honestly say we've done that this season?
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Another thing that's not been mentioned, both their first two goals took big deflections.
No getting away from it though we were bad tonight,
Lawlor 4
Toffilo 5
Butler 7
Wright 5
Baudry 3
Blair 4
Houghton 5
Copps 5
Rowe 4
Kongolo 6
Marquis 5
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I've no problem with losing it's the manner we lost, we set up with everyone behind the ball and after 10 mins it was clear that it was not going to work, we looked better with 2 up front let's hope he learns from it
The words Ferguson and learn appear to be mutually exclusive. He doesn't seem to be able to.
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It should've been 1-1 at half time though even though we were bad, they didn't create many chances and scored from two deflected shots, and marquis missed a chance my 4 year old would've scored.
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Still convinced we won't go down Jim. Having said that I said that 2 seasons ago! 😀😀
There is some truth in your post though: this set of players is not good enough for this division (to do well in this division I mean) and I'm not a hugs DF fan. But to be fair, who else would we get? Any manager coming in would say 'we need to invest in new players because this lot is struggling. How much money do I have?'
Who would we get ?
Who knows, but it could be someone who got the team doing well.
There are plenty of good football managers out there and one could just be the right fit.
The alternative presumably is to plod along towards L2 and do nothing about it.
I am not sure that is right that we will go down. I do not think we are going down. I am pretty certain we will be safe.
It was a tough game tonight and while it matched the biggest beating handed out by Wigan at home this season, it is clearly a tough place to go for anyone.
What is an open question is whether we are actually progressing under the current manager. At League One level there remains some remarkable consistency under the current manager:
2015/16 season - 35 games, 35 points - 1.00 points per game
2017/18 season - 19 games, 20 points - 1.05 points per game
It really is quite something. A point a game.
Different seasons, different players, different opposition. A point a game.
Last couple of weeks it hasn't been averaging a point a game.
It changes every week, bit silly to keep posting it every time it equates.
After the bury game it was nothing like
Hound, as you probably know, I'd have sacked Ferguson after the Scunny away game the season we got relegated!
Dickos: I'm pretty sure we've got 8 points from our last 7 games (if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will tell me) that's pretty near a point a game if I'm right
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I'm convinced that we won't go be relegated and I won't take tonight's result out of context - it was our most difficult game of the season on paper and so it proved.
It'd be nice to have got something, but if we had then it would have been a bonus. I certainly didn't expect anything tonight so a defeat doesn't feel anywhere near as bad as it would have done against one of the teams in and around us in the league table.
On the performance, frustratingly, yet again absolutely nothing new was learned tonight.
We're at Groundhog Day with the team we have. We know our weaknesses and they've been discussed numerous times already. My only expectation is that DF has also recognised our weak areas and my only demand is that he addresses the problem with new signings during the January transfer window.
If we meander towards safety and nothing positively changes in either results or performances by May, then the board need to make a decision in the summer - i.e. either they throw money at signing good, long-term replacements in the summer, or they relieve DF of his duties (as if they're not prepared to let him sign the players he needs to take us forward, it shows they have no faith in him).
Finally, I hope people stick by DF and give him at least until after the transfer window where he has the opportunity to address weaknesses, before calling for his head.
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I never expected anything from Wigan, but the fact that we're even discussing the possibility of relegation, and it not being unrealistic, is quite concerning in my view.
If we are in a similar position in March as we are in now, and I've not seen anything that suggests we won't be, then I'll be doubly worried as (probably irrationally) there's no way I'm trusting Donny chuffing Rovers of all teams not to bottle it again!
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I like when people say . "Who would be get" ffs
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We have weaknesses and we will lose games at times that's the crux of it.
I remember reading Ferguson's thoughts on this season and he said then we'll do well in some and get a hiding in some. He wasn't wrong. We are still adjusting the key point is to learn and build upon last night's performance going in to a big home game this weekend where we need a result.
I haven't liked the formation we've used it lacks pace next to Marquis which means he doesn't get the space Williams or May create. Perhaps a rethink for Ferguson there.
What I'm looking for is improvement towards March as 'Akinfenwa' says ready to make strong additions for next year. If we're 1/2 points above the bottom at that point then we should worry.
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I am not sure that is right that we will go down. I do not think we are going down. I am pretty certain we will be safe.
It was a tough game tonight and while it matched the biggest beating handed out by Wigan at home this season, it is clearly a tough place to go for anyone.
What is an open question is whether we are actually progressing under the current manager. At League One level there remains some remarkable consistency under the current manager:
2015/16 season - 35 games, 35 points - 1.00 points per game
2017/18 season - 19 games, 20 points - 1.05 points per game
It really is quite something. A point a game.
Different seasons, different players, different opposition. A point a game.
Last couple of weeks it hasn't been averaging a point a game.
It changes every week, bit silly to keep posting it every time it equates.
After the bury game it was nothing like
Oh yeah, after the Bury game it was at 1.125 ppg, which isn't a lot different is it?
Irrespective of how it changes game to game, the thing is that over time the average is around 1 ppg.
That over the season is going to make it very close with regards to whether we do go down again, as i am sure you will agree with.
It doesn't matter how it is padded out, DF's record with us in L1 isn't good and the signs this season are that we are going to be hanging on to our seats come April and May.
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That ppg would give you an extra 6 points over a season than 1ppg. So it is a big difference.
If we win Saturday it's back to 1.15.
It's a daft thing to keep going on about it until he season ends, because it changes every week
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Sadly, I don't think we have weaknessess, I think we have (apparently) insurmountable deficiencies including a consistent inability to defend, a constant inability to adapt during games, formations which don't produce the best from the players we have, and pretty consistent individual errors and absences of confidence among the players at both ends of the pitch.
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An inability to defend is a bit odd when before yesterday we'd conceded only one goal in the previous 3 games
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Even odder would be defending Ferguson's defensive record as a manager.
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Who's doing that?
Your talking about us this season
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If 'insurmountable deficiencies' does not indicate I'm taking a holistic, long-term view, and...
You not believing you're defending his defensive record by defending his defensive record..
Then it's going to be pretty difficult to have a grown up discussion about this.
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Copps you stated we have insamountable deficiencies including a consistent inability to defend.
That statement has nothing to do with Fergusons past, it's purely speaking about us this season
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We are all managers and all see things completely different.I can remember being a lone voice when Marquis contract was being renewed,i didn't think he was worth it and countered everybody's argument that we should give him what he wants, with the fact he had failed everywhere else and had 1 good year in a good team in a poor league.
I still think that probably cost us 1 extra player with what we are paying for someone who wouldn't get into any other league 1 team at the minute...
However I also said at the time that giving Cedric a new contract was fantastic business at the time and roll on 18 months we are still paying him a large chunk every week to play elsewhere..So I was a mile out on that opinion...
Personally I don't think players like Butler,Toffolo,Blair are good enough for this league,Rowe is knowhere near the level he's capable off and Coppingers race has been run...But I doubt many will agree with me on those...
The reality is we've either got a manager who cant get the best out of good players or players that are simply not as good as people think they are..!! My money's on the second..
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I agree with majority of that but butler has been our best player this season and I think our defence has been our biggest positive of the season
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Like I said all about opinions Dickos.I like Butler a lot,a model professional who puts more in than he takes out and gives everything he has.I just don't think his ability and mobility level is quite good enough for league 1 that's all.
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With you on most of that, WC. I can't agree on Marquis, however, as I think he needs a partner who is more than capable alongside him (his best games last season were when he partnered a better and fitter Williams).
I also think the players are, presently, not quite good enough for the level we're at. Most of the young lads could well improve sufficiently to see us staying at this level, but here's the rub - most of our midfield are loanees and the 4 that are ours have questionable ability for this level. Copps coming to the end of his career, Rowe just isn't doing anything consistently, Blair not quite good enough and McCullough is always injured! Doesn't fit well into any 5 year plan, if you ask me.
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So we are a couple of years into the feted five year plan and in reality are no further forward than when it began.
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But after a year would you not have thought they would have re-assessed this plan?
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I like when people say . "Who would be get" ffs
Agreed. Probably the most ridiculous argument you could possibly make against not making a change.
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I went last night and it was the same problems which have been around for nearly a year now.
Slow, boring, no width, predictable, negative, unintelligent and often gutless football. We were also given offside from a freekick in a good area, given offside from a short corner (FFS) and I lost count of the times we hoofed it up field for it simply to give it to the opposition.
We lacked courage - Kongolo in their half in the second half with a two on two attack down the right side - instead of having a go (we were already two nil down) he turned back and the ball went back to our keeper via a defender. Lawlor then boots it upfield (again) and we lose possession. Shite football.
I don't like losing but it would help if we were at least more positive, attack minded and entertaining. Not gung ho stupid, just not Ferguson.
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Cant disagree with that. Without being there, you can see those weaknesses from the brief highlights and from what we've seen before. Yes, accepting we were playing Wigan but we've seen the same weaknesses against lesser teams.
The sum of the parts don't add up, whilst individually the players should be able to cope with this league, collectively, we're not performing well enough as a team.
I was reasonably optimistic about this season, and yes there's been some mitigating injuries, we're on the cusp of falling further back rather than gaining ground. Collectively, the team isn't working hard enough for long enough during games.
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Going no where, apart from down. I'm afraid the current manager and team are shite and we are heading back to L2, pure and simple. The only way to change this is with some movement in the transfer window and a change of management. Neither will happen - league 2 here we come. :turd:
you're shit at being a wum Jim. You have to be unpredictable at times.
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I agree with majority of that but butler has been our best player this season and I think our defence has been our biggest positive of the season
I agree, even with the loss of Danny Andrew we have coped fairly well, losing the latter has been a massive loss for me though, not just what he brings to the team, but with the way we play with him in the side, best player we had up to his injury. Just makes you wonder where we might be now with him & Kiwomya playing.
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Last night
Speaking to my Wigan friends they were outclassed by Bradford on Saturday so felt slightly optimistic.
First 10 mins wethered the storm and grew into the game.Hang on till half time and who knows.
Deflected first goal then an absolute sitter missed by JM,2 mins later game over deflection again.
2nd half I can honestly say I have never been as bored as I was tonight,Williams bad foul didnt help but ffs it was tedious.
Wigan granted are a very good team but we played into their hands with letting them playing width poor Blair was left exposed constantly with 2 attacking him.
My conclusion was we dont have a problem defensively we have a serious problem scoring goals,last year JM might have scored 2 tonight,he needs dropping but for who?
He also needs support from midfield,he might be out of form but his effort cannot come into question
Tommy Rowe needs to take a hard look at himself for me he hasnt performed much at all.