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Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on April 08, 2019, 03:12:54 pmALAnd THAT sums up the idiocy of quite a few Brexit supporters I've had the misfortune of interacting with.Let's chuck ourselves into the problems and privations that you have no option but to face in a war because...Well because what? It feels like there are a lot of fragile egos around who feel themselves to be less of a man because they never had to face down an existential enemy in battle. It's beyond stupid and beyond pathetic. Fortunately, there are far too many grown ups in the country to allow us to be tipped into this sort of juvenile fantasy land.This is an existential threat to our nation. Do we go forward as a free nation or allow ourselves to become part of a United States of Europe which is not what we signed up for in the seventies?
ALAnd THAT sums up the idiocy of quite a few Brexit supporters I've had the misfortune of interacting with.Let's chuck ourselves into the problems and privations that you have no option but to face in a war because...Well because what? It feels like there are a lot of fragile egos around who feel themselves to be less of a man because they never had to face down an existential enemy in battle. It's beyond stupid and beyond pathetic. Fortunately, there are far too many grown ups in the country to allow us to be tipped into this sort of juvenile fantasy land.
Quote from: Axholme Lion on April 08, 2019, 03:27:02 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on April 08, 2019, 03:12:54 pmALAnd THAT sums up the idiocy of quite a few Brexit supporters I've had the misfortune of interacting with.Let's chuck ourselves into the problems and privations that you have no option but to face in a war because...Well because what? It feels like there are a lot of fragile egos around who feel themselves to be less of a man because they never had to face down an existential enemy in battle. It's beyond stupid and beyond pathetic. Fortunately, there are far too many grown ups in the country to allow us to be tipped into this sort of juvenile fantasy land.This is an existential threat to our nation. Do we go forward as a free nation or allow ourselves to become part of a United States of Europe which is not what we signed up for in the seventies?Well you've reached an interesting cross-roads there because it was Winston Churchill himself who was one of the first to propose a 'United States of Europe'.
Now I'm no historian and might be way out here but following WW1 didn't Churchill say "a "European Union" was possible between continental states, but without Britain's involvement:We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonality. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not compromised. We are interested and associated but not absorbed".
Quote from: Copps is Magic on April 08, 2019, 03:36:19 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on April 08, 2019, 03:27:02 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on April 08, 2019, 03:12:54 pmALAnd THAT sums up the idiocy of quite a few Brexit supporters I've had the misfortune of interacting with.Let's chuck ourselves into the problems and privations that you have no option but to face in a war because...Well because what? It feels like there are a lot of fragile egos around who feel themselves to be less of a man because they never had to face down an existential enemy in battle. It's beyond stupid and beyond pathetic. Fortunately, there are far too many grown ups in the country to allow us to be tipped into this sort of juvenile fantasy land.This is an existential threat to our nation. Do we go forward as a free nation or allow ourselves to become part of a United States of Europe which is not what we signed up for in the seventies?Well you've reached an interesting cross-roads there because it was Winston Churchill himself who was one of the first to propose a 'United States of Europe'.Well he got that one wrong then didn't he, or is that the route you would like to go in?
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on April 08, 2019, 04:04:25 pmNow I'm no historian and might be way out here but following WW1 didn't Churchill say "a "European Union" was possible between continental states, but without Britain's involvement:We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonality. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not compromised. We are interested and associated but not absorbed".That sounds very sensible to me.
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on April 08, 2019, 11:12:51 amIf it was just a choice of the two I'd vote Conservative. I would never, ever vote for a party that has Diane Abbott in it. That in itself describes to me how out of touch Corbyn is so I wouldn't vote for a party with him in it either.Sounds like there mat be a bit of jealousy there bb
If it was just a choice of the two I'd vote Conservative. I would never, ever vote for a party that has Diane Abbott in it. That in itself describes to me how out of touch Corbyn is so I wouldn't vote for a party with him in it either.
'I wish to speak about the tragedy of Europe, this noble continent, the home of all the great parent races of the Western world, the foundation of Christian faith and ethics, the origin of most of the culture, arts, philosophy and science both of ancient and modern times. If Europe were once united in the sharing of its common inheritance there would be no limit to the happiness, prosperity and glory which its 300 million or 400 million people would enjoy.''We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living. The process is simple. All that is needed is the resolve of hundreds of millions of men and women to do right instead of wrong and to gain as their reward blessing instead of cursing.''Is the only lesson of history to be that mankind is unteachable? Let there be justice, mercy and freedom. The peoples have only to will it and all will achieve their heart’s desire.''There can be no revival of Europe without a spiritually great France and a spiritually great Germany. The structure of the United States of Europe will be such as to make the material strength of a single State less important. Small nations will count as much as large ones and gain their honour by a contribution to the common cause. ''we must re-create the European family in a regional structure called, it may be, the United States of Europe, and the first practical step will be to form a Council of Europe. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join a union we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and who can. The salvation of the common people of every race and every land from war and servitude must be established on solid foundations, and must be created by the readiness of all men and women to die rather than to submit to tyranny.'Extracts from Churchill's 'United States of Europe' speech given at Zurich University in 1946. The full speech (worth reading) is here:https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1946-1963-elder-statesman/united-states-of-europe/
Quote from: wilts rover on April 08, 2019, 04:53:59 pm'I wish to speak about the tragedy of Europe, this noble continent, the home of all the great parent races of the Western world, the foundation of Christian faith and ethics, the origin of most of the culture, arts, philosophy and science both of ancient and modern times. If Europe were once united in the sharing of its common inheritance there would be no limit to the happiness, prosperity and glory which its 300 million or 400 million people would enjoy.''We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living. The process is simple. All that is needed is the resolve of hundreds of millions of men and women to do right instead of wrong and to gain as their reward blessing instead of cursing.''Is the only lesson of history to be that mankind is unteachable? Let there be justice, mercy and freedom. The peoples have only to will it and all will achieve their heart’s desire.''There can be no revival of Europe without a spiritually great France and a spiritually great Germany. The structure of the United States of Europe will be such as to make the material strength of a single State less important. Small nations will count as much as large ones and gain their honour by a contribution to the common cause. ''we must re-create the European family in a regional structure called, it may be, the United States of Europe, and the first practical step will be to form a Council of Europe. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join a union we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and who can. The salvation of the common people of every race and every land from war and servitude must be established on solid foundations, and must be created by the readiness of all men and women to die rather than to submit to tyranny.'Extracts from Churchill's 'United States of Europe' speech given at Zurich University in 1946. The full speech (worth reading) is here:https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1946-1963-elder-statesman/united-states-of-europe/Wilts, was Churchill including Britain in that united Europe?
Wasn't he referring to 'we' as Europe?
Quote from: SydneyRover on April 08, 2019, 11:16:51 amQuote from: Bentley Bullet on April 08, 2019, 11:12:51 amIf it was just a choice of the two I'd vote Conservative. I would never, ever vote for a party that has Diane Abbott in it. That in itself describes to me how out of touch Corbyn is so I wouldn't vote for a party with him in it either.Sounds like there mat be a bit of jealousy there bbSydney, you've stopped quoting the latest score on that stupid petition. Come on man, keep up.
Some fascinating data in the big YouGov Brexit poll published today. This is the most depressing. https://mobile.twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1115161142798712832So, the people most in favour of No Deal are not necessarily wilfully refusing to engage with the economic predictions that say No Deal would be horrific. They co sider themselves personally to be economically on Easy Street and so, presumably unconcerned by the negative effects. Grand eh? "I'm alright Jack" in spades.
Quote from: Copps is Magic on April 08, 2019, 03:36:19 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on April 08, 2019, 03:27:02 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on April 08, 2019, 03:12:54 pmALAnd THAT sums up the idiocy of quite a few Brexit supporters I've had the misfortune of interacting with.Let's chuck ourselves into the problems and privations that you have no option but to face in a war because...Well because what? It feels like there are a lot of fragile egos around who feel themselves to be less of a man because they never had to face down an existential enemy in battle. It's beyond stupid and beyond pathetic. Fortunately, there are far too many grown ups in the country to allow us to be tipped into this sort of juvenile fantasy land.This is an existential threat to our nation. Do we go forward as a free nation or allow ourselves to become part of a United States of Europe which is not what we signed up for in the seventies?Well you've reached an interesting cross-roads there because it was Winston Churchill himself who was one of the first to propose a 'United States of Europe'.Did he really?Well he also said. If we must choose between Europe and the open sea, we must choose the open sea. (the world)
Nay worries BB. What's the odd 100 times mistake among friends?