Video Assistant Referee or V.A.R

[GazLaz]

It can work if used properly.

[Dr Fundlekrotch]

It would be very interesting to study the psychological effects in that example.  Is having a penalty awarded against you straight away going to have a less detrimental effect on a team's psychology than having a goal that was scored, seemingly, legitimately taken away and then a penalty awarded in its place?

Pure conjecture, but I would have thought that Feyenoord there would have felt they'd been given a right kicking with what is effectively a 2 goal turn around in a couple of minutes.

I feel largely indifferent about the system - too much sanitisation of the game but equally it showed in that clip that it does work and rectifies errors.  I just think that there will be myriad unknown other outcomes

[Campsall rover]

In that example in the vid. The VAR could have been straight on the penalty incident while play was going on. As soon as he sees it was a pen, he tells the ref to stop play and go back to award the penalty. That would be better than waiting for the next natural stoppage.

What happens if play carries on and the other team score a or have a penalty shout. It would cause mayhem. Once VAR is used play would have to stop.

[Filo]

It's an upgrade from goal line technology, but it doesn't help the flow of a game at all.

I can't remember which team it was last season that had a penalty appeal turned down, only for the other team to counter attack and score. The referee then used VAR and gave a penalty - two minutes or so after the original incident.

By the time chaos and protests from both sets of players had finished, it was 5 or 6 minutes later.

Not for me.

It worked well tonight - Chelsea's pen appeal. Play went on for a while afterwards. Then around a mins wait for a decision holding up the corner. VAR neatly backed up the original decision. Stress taken out of the game.

BUT, I'd rather have the controversy hanging. The VAR decision killed that edge of the game for me, too sanitised.

The problem for me was waiting for the ball to go out of play in order to allow the VAR system to review the incident.  It took over a minute of Chelsea attacking until they eventually forced a corner.  What would have happened if they had scored in that period?  If the VAR had decided that it should have been a penalty, would the goal have been chalked off and the penalty given.  Would an advantage apply?
Even worse, what if Arsenal had gone up the other end and scored? 
What would have happened if that Arsenal goal had been the last kick of the game.  We could have the farcical situation of an Arsenal 1-0 win turning into a 1-0 defeat. 
All hypothetical I know, but as VAR becomes more common we are going to get these situations where the ball doesn't go out of play for several minutes.  Could we have sendings off rescinded, because play has been brought back for a penalty to be given?
All issues which I think need to be addressed before they happen for real!!

This is what happened in Holland and why it doesn't work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Z_dXhrPQU

Of course it works, it was a penalty, without VAR they would’ve been wrongfully 2-0 down.

It takes nearly two minutes to reach the decision from the incident happening, then by the time the furore/protests have finished, it's about five minutes before the penalty is actually taken.

Until it's done within 30 seconds or so, it's going to be difficult to take to.

I also think it needs the video referee to come out, after a contentious incident, and explain why he's reached that decision. If not, there's always going to be debate and controversy around decisions and it'll be subjective.

The Video ref does n't make a decision, the Final say is down to the match referree, who can also view the footage pitchside if he needs to

[ravenrover]

In that example in the vid. The VAR could have been straight on the penalty incident while play was going on. As soon as he sees it was a pen, he tells the ref to stop play and go back to award the penalty. That would be better than waiting for the next natural stoppage.

What happens if play carries on and the other team score a or have a penalty shout. It would cause mayhem. Once VAR is used play would have to stop.

and there-in lies the problem. in all other sports the game has actually stopped, tennis, union, league, cricket  when the equipment is used be it hawkeye snicko but not var.

[since-1969]

I think if you ask DF if he would  bite your hand off if VAR could be used in the League 1 . Last 2 games diabolical refereeing decisions.

[1879Rovers]

  It would help enormously if assistant referees,took part in the game and gave decisions other than when the ball goes out of play, like they used to do.
  I am convinced that some top referees tell them to leave the penalty areas to them.

Spot on. They almost wait for the referee to give the throw ins as well nowadays. I can't remember the last time I saw a linesman flag for a penalty.

[dickos1]

Why does the ref need to run of the pitch to watch it.
Just let someone in the stands watch it and tell the ref.
It won't work if the ref has to run off the pitch to watch it himself after every incident

[Donnywolf]

  It would help enormously if assistant referees,took part in the game and gave decisions other than when the ball goes out of play, like they used to do.
  I am convinced that some top referees tell them to leave the penalty areas to them.

Spot on. They almost wait for the referee to give the throw ins as well nowadays. I can't remember the last time I saw a linesman flag for a penalty.

Yes they do wait for the Ref as yesterdays Lino did once just for a Throw. Once "The Ref" made the decision the Lino of course immediately agreed.

I am sure some Refs (holier than others) DO say leave everything to me apart from Throws just in case (like yesterday) his Lino might flag for a Pen and the Ref himself probably with a worse view but in the same instant had decided it was not. The Ref may think that better for him to b***s up a decision and take the flack that have a contentious looking decision between 2 of them

Whatever - it is crap - and costs money (bets , win bonuses etc , Super 6 Millions maybe) jobs (Managers , maybe even Playing Staff in cases of Relegation or Promotion). Who knows where it ends and what it "touches" but it did make probably 95% of those who saw it yesterday go home or arrive home in a bad mood !

[ravenrover]

Even with VAR the ref is the officiating official and he has to make the final decision hence why he has to look at the video which he could still over rule

[Campsall rover]

Why are the linesmen called Assistant referees. They give almost no help at all to the refs on important decisions. Some of them can’t even run the line properly.
The Lino had a perfect view from side on for the Copps penalty as did the Lino for the Copps penalty against Rochdale.
What did they see. Nothing, REALLY, they must have been thinking about what they were having for tea when they got home.
Total incompetence. The ref of course should have seen it also of course.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

On the BBC website there are a few explanations of how VAR works and it says where there is an obvious error the VAR can tell the referee to review the decision.

Bearing in mind this is new and on trial so when it's refined and roled out we are more likely to see correct decisions. The area that I can see being an issue is knowing when an incident is under review and whether play can go on normally. The victimised team will want to stop the game ASAP.

[RedJ]

Why does the ref need to run of the pitch to watch it.
Just let someone in the stands watch it and tell the ref.
It won't work if the ref has to run off the pitch to watch it himself after every incident

He doesn't. There's people watching the game at PL HQ (or the equivalent for the country it's in) and they review all the footage, the referee can refer to them or they can speak to the referee if they think he's missed something major. The referee has the option to then look at the video himself but he doesn't have to at all.

[Superspy]

Why does the ref need to run of the pitch to watch it.
Just let someone in the stands watch it and tell the ref.
It won't work if the ref has to run off the pitch to watch it himself after every incident

He doesn't. There's people watching the game at PL HQ (or the equivalent for the country it's in) and they review all the footage, the referee can refer to them or they can speak to the referee if they think he's missed something major. The referee has the option to then look at the video himself but he doesn't have to at all.

The BBC article says the ref cannot ask for the VAR if he isn't sure...he HAS to make a decision and then the VAR will tell him if it's an obvious error. Seems a bit weird to me.

[RedJ]

Why does the ref need to run of the pitch to watch it.
Just let someone in the stands watch it and tell the ref.
It won't work if the ref has to run off the pitch to watch it himself after every incident

He doesn't. There's people watching the game at PL HQ (or the equivalent for the country it's in) and they review all the footage, the referee can refer to them or they can speak to the referee if they think he's missed something major. The referee has the option to then look at the video himself but he doesn't have to at all.

The BBC article says the ref cannot ask for the VAR if he isn't sure...he HAS to make a decision and then the VAR will tell him if it's an obvious error. Seems a bit weird to me.

That's bizarre. Every other sport that uses this the official can go to the VAR/TMO/3rd Umpire whatever you want to call them of his own accord as far as I'm aware.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

If the refs continue to ignore the VAR there's soon be an uproar. It's there to help get things right. We must get to a position where the VAR can alert the ref to an obvious mistake or, give the right to review to the teams in those 4 scenarios.

[LincsRover]

Why are the linesmen called Assistant referees. They give almost no help at all to the refs on important decisions. Some of them can’t even run the line properly.
The Lino had a perfect view from side on for the Copps penalty as did the Lino for the Copps penalty against Rochdale.
What did they see. Nothing, REALLY, they must have been thinking about what they were having for tea when they got home.
Total incompetence. The ref of course should have seen it also of course.

The west stand lino didn't even make his own decisions on throw ins or corners yesterday - at one point he indicated a corner to us then changed his mind when the ref gave a goal kick and numerous times looked to the ref before indicating which way a throw in should be given, even though the ref was miles away from play (constantly!!).

 

[Filo]

Why are the linesmen called Assistant referees. They give almost no help at all to the refs on important decisions. Some of them can’t even run the line properly.
The Lino had a perfect view from side on for the Copps penalty as did the Lino for the Copps penalty against Rochdale.
What did they see. Nothing, REALLY, they must have been thinking about what they were having for tea when they got home.
Total incompetence. The ref of course should have seen it also of course.

The west stand lino didn't even make his own decisions on throw ins or corners yesterday - at one point he indicated a corner to us then changed his mind when the ref gave a goal kick and numerous times looked to the ref before indicating which way a throw in should be given, even though the ref was miles away from play (constantly!!).

 

At one point the ref was about to give us a throw in, he looked at the idiot running the line, the idiot abstained from making a decision and kept his flag down, then the ref gave it to Plymouth

[Michael McIndoe]

Have to say I'm not a big fan of V.A.R.! I think it slows the game down and more importantly gives teams under pressure breather. Goal line technology - yes for sure. But this whole stopping the game, lets watch a screen and then give a decision is not why we all love watching football. This isn't Rugby Union where we have to give the big props more time to have a breather before they get themselves back in the scrum. This is high intensity football matches where we want to see as much free flowing football as possible. Outside of the PL the ball is only in play on average 60 minutes per game and even if the ref was to stop his watch every time he went to look at the screen it still affects the ebb and flow of football matches.

[drfchound]

Mmmmmm, but it would give the unfit refs time to recover their breath and composure. 

[Donnywolf]

Have to say I'm not a big fan of V.A.R.! I think it slows the game down and more importantly gives teams under pressure breather. Goal line technology - yes for sure. But this whole stopping the game, lets watch a screen and then give a decision is not why we all love watching football. This isn't Rugby Union where we have to give the big props more time to have a breather before they get themselves back in the scrum. This is high intensity football matches where we want to see as much free flowing football as possible. Outside of the PL the ball is only in play on average 60 minutes per game and even if the ref was to stop his watch every time he went to look at the screen it still affects the ebb and flow of football matches.

True but do you think VAR would be acceptable if the 5th official was watching all the time and as in the case of the Watford "goal" yesterday just alerts the Ref and says almost instantly "do not allow the goal" and gives the reason why.

Also do you think as a former Player that the Players themselves have contributed to the situation especially in latter years with their simulation ? It is blamed on the influx of "continental" Players but I remember Francis Lee having a reputation for lets say "going over easily" in the Penalty area so its been around for a long time and makes it even harder for Referees

I am sure some Refs are aware of the ones that may try to engineer a Penalty and it may work against said Player even when a challenge should actually have been a Penalty

Speaking of Pen takers well done on your record while in Rovers Hoops. Great efficiency - think it was kissing the ball was a great "superstition" and I was always confident that it the Keeper dived the right way and there was a gap of a Ball width and 1" the Pen would be in the gap !

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Let's not forget the VAR is only intended to be used in 4 critical situations, Penalties, Offsides etc.,

In a game or two since the trial started it's not been needed at all so we need to just need to think about how often it's needed when considering how many times the game stops.

On Saturday, I can think of 2 poss 3 instances. They had a penalty shout, the foul on Butler and the pen. I don't think it will make a mockery of the flow of a game.

[drfchound]

Agree with that, not many times in a match that a game changing decision warrants a look at the screen.