When John Gregory said 'shoot the ref'

[anne honemous]

... he got away with it!

Then again, he was already serving a touchline ban.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/gregorys-shoot-the-ref-remarks-go-unpunished-742299.html

[CrippyCooke]

It was also nearly two decades ago.

[Bentley Bullet]

It was also nearly two decades ago.

Exactly, before the silly stupid PC brigade gained control.

[John Sitton legend]

It was also nearly two decades ago.

When players were unfit apparently.

[CrippyCooke]

It was also nearly two decades ago.

Exactly, before the silly stupid PC brigade gained control.

Oddly the people who whinge about the "PC brigade" are always the ones offended when people call their comments stupid.

[Bentley Bullet]

Only when it's the PC brigade calling it.

[drfchound]

It was also nearly two decades ago.

When players were unfit apparently.

Not as fit as they are now.

[selby]

  Fitness is subjective,I know the players today do not have to do it, but do you think that they would be fit enough to work a day shift on the coal face, walk to Cantley Park ( he used to fancy himself as a race walker and used it for training) from Askern, and then train as a part time footballer.
  That's what Morgan Hunt did as  a 18yr old,the walking training was to enter the local colliery sports days where he could win £25, four weeks wages.
  He was a big strong lad Morgan, and was very fit into late life, being one of the early members of Askern Running club,and trained with them well into his seventies.
  A different time and opportunities, but do not doubt the strength and fitness of the old players, and they were, and had to be, as hard as nails.

[selby]

An interesting point, when comparing rellevent styles of play with the past most people I  think assume a game played with the modern ball, modern referees, and interpretation of the laws (offside ,tackling etc) and what is and is not acceptable.
  How do you think a modern player would go on if he was transported into a first division game, say in the 1960s.
  Would he have to adapt,change, toughen up, how do you think they would get on?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I’ve said for years. If you took Jamie Coppinger back to 1966, no-one would ever speak again about Pele or George Best.

If you took Ronaldo or Messi to 1966, they’d have to re-write the Laws of the Game to give anyone else a sniff of a chance.

The modern players are incomparably fitter, stronger and technically better. Bill Shankley was reputedly impressed with Kevin Keegan when he got changed for his first training session with Liverpool. Said he had the physique of a middleweight boxer. EVERY player has that physique these days. They would physically overwhelm players from the 60s. Sure, the likes of Norman Hunter or Chopper Harris might try to nail them. But they’d have to get within nailing distance first.

[anne honemous]

An interesting point, when comparing rellevent styles of play with the past most people I  think assume a game played with the modern ball, modern referees, and interpretation of the laws (offside ,tackling etc) and what is and is not acceptable.
  How do you think a modern player would go on if he was transported into a first division game, say in the 1960s.
  Would he have to adapt,change, toughen up, how do you think they would get on?

I think most players would get battered and quit football within a couple of weeks.

It'd be the modern equivalent of having the Crazy Gang playing professionally.

[drfchound]

I’ve said for years. If you took Jamie Coppinger back to 1966, no-one would ever speak again about Pele or George Best.

If you took Ronaldo or Messi to 1966, they’d have to re-write the Laws of the Game to give anyone else a sniff of a chance.

The modern players are incomparably fitter, stronger and technically better. Bill Shankley was reputedly impressed with Kevin Keegan when he got changed for his first training session with Liverpool. Said he had the physique of a middleweight boxer. EVERY player has that physique these days. They would physically overwhelm players from the 60s. Sure, the likes of Norman Hunter or Chopper Harris might try to nail them. But they’d have to get within nailing distance first.

BST, wholly agree with you on this.

Bobby Charlton though clearly wouldn’t.
A year or two back a journalist asked him how he thought the England team of 1966 would do against the modern day England team.
Bobby said the 66 team would win 1-0.
When the journo asked him why 1-0, Bobby reminded him that all the lads from back then were well over 70 years old now.

[Filo]

I’ve said for years. If you took Jamie Coppinger back to 1966, no-one would ever speak again about Pele or George Best.

If you took Ronaldo or Messi to 1966, they’d have to re-write the Laws of the Game to give anyone else a sniff of a chance.

The modern players are incomparably fitter, stronger and technically better. Bill Shankley was reputedly impressed with Kevin Keegan when he got changed for his first training session with Liverpool. Said he had the physique of a middleweight boxer. EVERY player has that physique these days. They would physically overwhelm players from the 60s. Sure, the likes of Norman Hunter or Chopper Harris might try to nail them. But they’d have to get within nailing distance first.

BST, wholly agree with you on this.

Bobby Charlton though clearly wouldn’t.
A year or two back a journalist asked him how he thought the England team of 1966 would do against the modern day England team.
Bobby said the 66 team would win 1-0.
When the journo asked him why 1-0, Bobby reminded him that all the lads from back then were well over 70 years old now.

And don't forget, two are dead, one is blind in one eye and poor old Nobby has dementia

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here you go.

Watch the first 60 seconds of this and just think what Coppinger and Marquis would have done to the 1962 World Cup Finalists.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21dwjj

It’s like a Monty Python caricature of football.

[anne honemous]

I’ve said for years. If you took Jamie Coppinger back to 1966, no-one would ever speak again about Pele or George Best.

If you took Ronaldo or Messi to 1966, they’d have to re-write the Laws of the Game to give anyone else a sniff of a chance.

The modern players are incomparably fitter, stronger and technically better. Bill Shankley was reputedly impressed with Kevin Keegan when he got changed for his first training session with Liverpool. Said he had the physique of a middleweight boxer. EVERY player has that physique these days. They would physically overwhelm players from the 60s. Sure, the likes of Norman Hunter or Chopper Harris might try to nail them. But they’d have to get within nailing distance first.

I disagree. I think a lot of players would struggle.

I said somewhere else yesterday that players might have more sports science now, better bodies, be fitter athletes, etc, but that means nothing if they can't handle themselves in a physical game.

The game 50 years ago was far much more physical, far rougher, far dirtier and the pitches weren't half as good. So how many of these supposedly skillful players would have difficulty adapting and just get battered out of a game?

Imagine any young-ish player in our current squad coping with Tommy Smith. They'd need bloody counselling afterwards!

[dickos1]

  Fitness is subjective,I know the players today do not have to do it, but do you think that they would be fit enough to work a day shift on the coal face, walk to Cantley Park ( he used to fancy himself as a race walker and used it for training) from Askern, and then train as a part time footballer.
  That's what Morgan Hunt did as  a 18yr old,the walking training was to enter the local colliery sports days where he could win £25, four weeks wages.
  He was a big strong lad Morgan, and was very fit into late life, being one of the early members of Askern Running club,and trained with them well into his seventies.
  A different time and opportunities, but do not doubt the strength and fitness of the old players, and they were, and had to be, as hard as nails.

As I mentioned, even the players from 20 years comment on the pace of the game now compared to when they played. Ray parlour often speaks about how they would go out drinking all day after training. And how they'd eat pie n chips before a game.
These were the best of the best.

Can't compare to today

[selby]

  Billy would any of the modern backs get near Cliff Jones of Spurs,an even time sprinter, and did it on mud.
 He was picked for the Wales Commonwealth athletics team but signed pro instead, there were flyers about in them days as well.
  I agree with your view about the difference in overall size, speed of the game, and all the advantages the modern player has, but would the modern player adapt to the  conditions, physicality, and what was acceptable as a tackle, charging the keeper etc.
  I think they would find it more difficult than you seem to think, but just my opinion of course.
  Incidentally I put Jones up there with Best and Garrincha as one of the real Greats of my time, he is largely forgotten now, but was some player.
   And as for your clip of 1962 look at Chile v Italy and then think how some would go on. The film techniques don't do any justice to any sport filmed at that time as well, look at 1990s athletics and the difference is dramatic compared with T.V. today.   

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby

The whole point is that it WASN'T physical back in the day. There were some cloggers. There were some punches thrown. But the general standard of intensity of tackling wasn't remotely as hard as it is today. The physicality of today's game is relentless.

Cliff Jones. Quick. Undoubtedly. I'd hazard a guess that he wouldn't put in too many even time sprints if he was expected to run 11-13km in a game.

Anyway, I'll see your Battle of Santiago and raise you the Battle of Johannesburg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CscSfBXOHVA

[selby]

  Billy I am not arguing with you, I put it up as a discussion point of interest, wanting to know other people's thoughts.
  My own view is that most great players of each generation would adapt to  the  present day methods, and would be the better for them, likewise present day players would also have to adapt to different ways of playing and training, and the lack of back up help they receive today.
   The one thing I can say as an old fart, is that I have had great pleasure both playing and watching this great game.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby

It’s a fascinating discussion, but I think we’re talking at cross-purposes. I’m not questioning that  (some) players from previous generations would adapt to the training methods and physical standards of today. Certainly some would and some wouldn’t.

My point was that the absolute standards of today, across the board (technique, stamina, strength, physicality) are all way above anything that was considered possibly 50 years ago.

Watch that 62 WC final. Then watch a modern Premiership game. It’s hard to believe it’s the same sport. It’s no exaggeration to say that Man City would score 20 against either of those sides.

[selby]

 I agree mostly, 20 is stretching it a bit though. Incidentally I play walking football at Carcroft and Goole, and you can see that there have been some good players in the past.

[drfchound]

I’ve said for years. If you took Jamie Coppinger back to 1966, no-one would ever speak again about Pele or George Best.

If you took Ronaldo or Messi to 1966, they’d have to re-write the Laws of the Game to give anyone else a sniff of a chance.

The modern players are incomparably fitter, stronger and technically better. Bill Shankley was reputedly impressed with Kevin Keegan when he got changed for his first training session with Liverpool. Said he had the physique of a middleweight boxer. EVERY player has that physique these days. They would physically overwhelm players from the 60s. Sure, the likes of Norman Hunter or Chopper Harris might try to nail them. But they’d have to get within nailing distance first.

BST, wholly agree with you on this.

Bobby Charlton though clearly wouldn’t.
A year or two back a journalist asked him how he thought the England team of 1966 would do against the modern day England team.
Bobby said the 66 team would win 1-0.
When the journo asked him why 1-0, Bobby reminded him that all the lads from back then were well over 70 years old now.

And don't forget, two are dead, one is blind in one eye and poor old Nobby has dementia

Ha, clearly Bobby was taking that into consideration otherwise he might have said 2 or 3 nil.

[Filo]

I’ve said for years. If you took Jamie Coppinger back to 1966, no-one would ever speak again about Pele or George Best.

If you took Ronaldo or Messi to 1966, they’d have to re-write the Laws of the Game to give anyone else a sniff of a chance.

The modern players are incomparably fitter, stronger and technically better. Bill Shankley was reputedly impressed with Kevin Keegan when he got changed for his first training session with Liverpool. Said he had the physique of a middleweight boxer. EVERY player has that physique these days. They would physically overwhelm players from the 60s. Sure, the likes of Norman Hunter or Chopper Harris might try to nail them. But they’d have to get within nailing distance first.

BST, wholly agree with you on this.

Bobby Charlton though clearly wouldn’t.
A year or two back a journalist asked him how he thought the England team of 1966 would do against the modern day England team.
Bobby said the 66 team would win 1-0.
When the journo asked him why 1-0, Bobby reminded him that all the lads from back then were well over 70 years old now.

And don't forget, two are dead, one is blind in one eye and poor old Nobby has dementia

Ha, clearly Bobby was taking that into consideration otherwise he might have said 2 or 3 nil.

Who's Bobby

[drfchound]

I’ve said for years. If you took Jamie Coppinger back to 1966, no-one would ever speak again about Pele or George Best.

If you took Ronaldo or Messi to 1966, they’d have to re-write the Laws of the Game to give anyone else a sniff of a chance.

The modern players are incomparably fitter, stronger and technically better. Bill Shankley was reputedly impressed with Kevin Keegan when he got changed for his first training session with Liverpool. Said he had the physique of a middleweight boxer. EVERY player has that physique these days. They would physically overwhelm players from the 60s. Sure, the likes of Norman Hunter or Chopper Harris might try to nail them. But they’d have to get within nailing distance first.

BST, wholly agree with you on this.

Bobby Charlton though clearly wouldn’t.
A year or two back a journalist asked him how he thought the England team of 1966 would do against the modern day England team.
Bobby said the 66 team would win 1-0.
When the journo asked him why 1-0, Bobby reminded him that all the lads from back then were well over 70 years old now.

And don't forget, two are dead, one is blind in one eye and poor old Nobby has dementia

Ha, clearly Bobby was taking that into consideration otherwise he might have said 2 or 3 nil.

Who's Bobby

Charlton