Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Lifelong supporter on April 11, 2024, 03:17:46 pm
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https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/pat-lally-to-take-centre-stage-as-doncaster-rovers-1981-promotion-heroes-get-set-for-reunion-4584531
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A good question would also be, which of these players would you swap into our present team. Little, Russell, Snod, Lister, Warboys? Pugh?
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In terms of their ability compared to the standard of the day, the following would be better than we have at present.
Russell
Lister
Dowd
G Snodin
I Snodin
Little
Warboys
Possibly Nimmo as an out and out poacher.
Compared to the standards of today, none of them playing as they did in 1981 would get within a country mile of the current squad. Although I fear for the manager telling that to Snod and Animal.
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If the referee was from 1981 the present side would spend more time on the floor than running.
They would be constantly offside
The keeper would get penalised for holding the ball
Most of them would have to learn to take a proper throw in from roughly where it went out of play.
They would soon learn to keep their mouth shut if they disagreed with a decision.
They would have to go off the field when injured, and the only thing to get them better would be a sponge and a bucket.
The St Johns Ambulance Brigade would be there to carry dead bodies off.
And proper linesmen would give fee kicks and penalties.
Anything from the knee down was considered going for the ball and ok.
A good sliding tackle was considered an art form, and got the crowd going.
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If the current side played that 1981 side, there wouldn't be a foul in the game. The current side wouldn't need to foul anyone. The 1981 side wouldn't ever get close enough to their opponent to foul someone.
I loved that 1981 side. A wonderful combination of grit and elegance. But you have to face facts. Today's players are utterly unrecognisable to those in the game from 40 years ago, in ability, physique, speed of thought and speed of action.
You don't believe me, have a think about that pirouette Sterry did on Tuesday night and ask yourself how many players in the entirity of world football could have don't that 40 years ago.
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I think if animal was on the other team Sterry would not have completed that wee pirouette!!
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If the current side played that 1981 side, there wouldn't be a foul in the game. The current side wouldn't need to foul anyone. The 1981 side wouldn't ever get close enough to their opponent to foul someone.
I loved that 1981 side. A wonderful combination of grit and elegance. But you have to face facts. Today's players are utterly unrecognisable to those in the game from 40 years ago, in ability, physique, speed of thought and speed of action.
You don't believe me, have a think about that pirouette Sterry did on Tuesday night and ask yourself how many players in the entirity of world football could have don't that 40 years ago.
If that 81 side was in the present day with all the science, coaching, diet and physical conditioning, what then? Which division do you think they could have played in?
Not easy to answer I know but interested in your thoughts.
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I think if animal was on the other team Sterry would not have completed that wee pirouette!!
Maybe he would have done it, but definitely not twice.!!
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I think if animal was on the other team Sterry would not have completed that wee pirouette!!
If animal hasn’t got a Rovers heritage number, he certainly should have one
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Winners play to the standard of the day, so any one of them wouldn't be out of place.
Just like George best, Maradona, cruyff, Beckenbauer, keegan etc would still be world class today.
if you put haaland in the 70s, he'd be half the player he is now, smoking 20 a day and drinking and poorer standards etc.
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Think that 1980 side would beat today's especially if they had the diet improvement etc.
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Think that 1980 side would beat today's especially if they had the diet improvement etc.
Precisely, the players are the constant.
What changes are the diet, training etc.
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I don’t think that the 80s team would stand a chance against todays team.
After all, most of them would probably be in their seventies now.
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If the current side played that 1981 side, there wouldn't be a foul in the game. The current side wouldn't need to foul anyone. The 1981 side wouldn't ever get close enough to their opponent to foul someone.
I loved that 1981 side. A wonderful combination of grit and elegance. But you have to face facts. Today's players are utterly unrecognisable to those in the game from 40 years ago, in ability, physique, speed of thought and speed of action.
You don't believe me, have a think about that pirouette Sterry did on Tuesday night and ask yourself how many players in the entirity of world football could have don't that 40 years ago.
If that 81 side was in the present day with all the science, coaching, diet and physical conditioning, what then? Which division do you think they could have played in?
Not easy to answer I know but interested in your thoughts.
I've absolutely no idea how any individual would get on. My take though is that they had specific skills for their time. There's no guarantee that the specific players from that time would have had the mental discipline to engage with modern expectations of diets and training methods. It's so different it's essentially a different sport. And absolutely a different lifestyle.
Billy Bremner is a good example. He was magnificent in his day, but he liked a fag and a drink and his physique wasn't a patch on modern players' physiques. Could he have given up the booze and fags and hit modern standards? Who knows? Maybe. Maybe not. But it's not a given.
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Wouldn't be a case of giving up the booze or fags if he wasn't on them anyway.
Different eras. If those players were born now instead of then, they absolutely would still be playing at the top level.
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Imagine Colin Douglas playing today pissed up. Like some have said, totally different today’s footballers to the 1980s. Think the 1980s players were a harder in there play
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Charles Charlie Charles would be fine today…
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I've pointed this out several times before but here goes again.
There's a video online of the 1962 WC final. Brazil, the best team in history with Djalmar Santos, Didi, Vava, Garrincha etc. Against one of the best sides from Europe, Czechoslovakia who had got to the semi of the previous Euros and were headed by Masopust, the European Footballer of the Year.
If you're going to comment on this subject, watch the first minute before you do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=_YyeQj0TGyDCr_rf&t=61&v=2NJ_dSNj01E&feature=youtu.be&t=61
It's like a comedy piss take of what football was like in the old days. A top modern team would literally put 50 past them.
You cannot possibly argue that those players, given modern coaching, would be as good as DeBruyne or Haaland or Mbappe. They are literally playing a different sport.
That was the very best in the world, just 18 years before that 80/81 Rovers side, who were the 70th or so best side in one country.
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You can make the argument the other way. Would today's players, who are basically playing with a balloon in carpet slippers, have developed the same skills, and played at the same pace, with the old casey ball, and heavy boots covering their ankles?
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You can make the argument the other way. Would today's players, who are basically playing with a balloon in carpet slippers, have developed the same skills, and played at the same pace, with the old casey ball, and heavy boots covering their ankles?
Watch the first minute of that video and tell me if you reckon Matthew Craig would misplaced a fiver yard pass when playing at walking pace with nobody pressing him, even if he was playing naked with his knackers in a vice?
Cos it happens about 5 times in that first minute.
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You can make the argument the other way. Would today's players, who are basically playing with a balloon in carpet slippers, have developed the same skills, and played at the same pace, with the old casey ball, and heavy boots covering their ankles?
Watch the first minute of that video and tell me if you reckon Matthew Craig would misplaced a fiver yard pass when playing at walking pace with nobody pressing him, even if he was playing naked with his knackers in a vice?
Cos it happens about 5 times in that first minute.
You need to be careful with the semantics here, BST, because it sounds like you're suggesting that Matty Craig is a better player than Pele, Zito, Didi, Vava, and Garrincha.
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I've pointed this out several times before but here goes again.
There's a video online of the 1962 WC final. Brazil, the best team in history with Djalmar Santos, Didi, Vava, Garrincha etc. Against one of the best sides from Europe, Czechoslovakia who had got to the semi of the previous Euros and were headed by Masopust, the European Footballer of the Year.
If you're going to comment on this subject, watch the first minute before you do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=_YyeQj0TGyDCr_rf&t=61&v=2NJ_dSNj01E&feature=youtu.be&t=61
It's like a comedy piss take of what football was like in the old days. A top modern team would literally put 50 past them.
You cannot possibly argue that those players, given modern coaching, would be as good as DeBruyne or Haaland or Mbappe. They are literally playing a different sport.
That was the very best in the world, just 18 years before that 80/81 Rovers side, who were the 70th or so best side in one country.
Think you’ll find the 1970 Brazil World Cup team were widely acclaimed as being ‘The best team in the world’.
Don’t think I need name the players.
And the 1970 England squad was better than the 1966 squad.
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If the current side played that 1981 side, there wouldn't be a foul in the game. The current side wouldn't need to foul anyone. The 1981 side wouldn't ever get close enough to their opponent to foul someone.
I loved that 1981 side. A wonderful combination of grit and elegance. But you have to face facts. Today's players are utterly unrecognisable to those in the game from 40 years ago, in ability, physique, speed of thought and speed of action.
You don't believe me, have a think about that pirouette Sterry did on Tuesday night and ask yourself how many players in the entirity of world football could have don't that 40 years ago.
If that 81 side was in the present day with all the science, coaching, diet and physical conditioning, what then? Which division do you think they could have played in?
Not easy to answer I know but interested in your thoughts.
I've absolutely no idea how any individual would get on. My take though is that they had specific skills for their time. There's no guarantee that the specific players from that time would have had the mental discipline to engage with modern expectations of diets and training methods. It's so different it's essentially a different sport. And absolutely a different lifestyle.
Billy Bremner is a good example. He was magnificent in his day, but he liked a fag and a drink and his physique wasn't a patch on modern players' physiques. Could he have given up the booze and fags and hit modern standards? Who knows? Maybe. Maybe not. But it's not a given.
Well Billy Bremner lived and breathed football.
I am absolutely 100% sure he would have adapted to todays football life style and would not drink and smoke BST.
It is just a totally different environment for Footballers now from youth level right through to being a seasoned pro.
The culture they are brought up in is so different now and I think 95% of players in the 60/70/80’s would have had no problem playing in the modern game with all the restrictions that goes with it regarding their social lives.
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Imagine Colin Douglas playing today pissed up. Like some have said, totally different today’s footballers to the 1980s. Think the 1980s players were a harder in there play
I remember his debut for us - either he was crap or pissed......................
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I've pointed this out several times before but here goes again.
There's a video online of the 1962 WC final. Brazil, the best team in history with Djalmar Santos, Didi, Vava, Garrincha etc. Against one of the best sides from Europe, Czechoslovakia who had got to the semi of the previous Euros and were headed by Masopust, the European Footballer of the Year.
If you're going to comment on this subject, watch the first minute before you do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=_YyeQj0TGyDCr_rf&t=61&v=2NJ_dSNj01E&feature=youtu.be&t=61
It's like a comedy piss take of what football was like in the old days. A top modern team would literally put 50 past them.
You cannot possibly argue that those players, given modern coaching, would be as good as DeBruyne or Haaland or Mbappe. They are literally playing a different sport.
That was the very best in the world, just 18 years before that 80/81 Rovers side, who were the 70th or so best side in one country.
Think you’ll find the 1970 Brazil World Cup team were widely acclaimed as being ‘The best team in the world’.
Don’t think I need name the players.
And the 1970 England squad was better than the 1966 squad.
I meant "at the time". Apologies for the confusion.
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I've pointed this out several times before but here goes again.
There's a video online of the 1962 WC final. Brazil, the best team in history with Djalmar Santos, Didi, Vava, Garrincha etc. Against one of the best sides from Europe, Czechoslovakia who had got to the semi of the previous Euros and were headed by Masopust, the European Footballer of the Year.
If you're going to comment on this subject, watch the first minute before you do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=_YyeQj0TGyDCr_rf&t=61&v=2NJ_dSNj01E&feature=youtu.be&t=61
It's like a comedy piss take of what football was like in the old days. A top modern team would literally put 50 past them.
You cannot possibly argue that those players, given modern coaching, would be as good as DeBruyne or Haaland or Mbappe. They are literally playing a different sport.
That was the very best in the world, just 18 years before that 80/81 Rovers side, who were the 70th or so best side in one country.
Right, so you reckon the players are completely different nowadays? How is that?
Has evolution sped up exponentially in the past 50 years?
Best call the Royal society, they'll love to hear about your findings.
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Football saved Dennis Law, who suffered from malnutrition and was put on a special diet and training regime at Huddersfield when he first came down to England.
To compare I would say that you have to look now at the Argentinians, and African countries start to life to be somewhere comparable to the start in life some great British players had in the 40's and 50's.
Because of coaching and the way they are looked after when picked up they don't do bad, so I am sure given the same support and teachings and a sportsman's diet the great players of the past would be just that , great.
The one thing they have over modern players is they were the original innovators to learn off, the Cruyff turn an example, the Mathews feint and dart off the other foot, the slalom runs of Cliff Jones and Best past six or seven players, they had their day in the sun, and gave young boys like me great memories, of course they would be great players now, and didn't have the luxury of manicured pitches to suggest anything different is ignorant.
I don't see any difference, I appreciate the great players of today just as much as I enjoyed the great players of the past proud to have seen a field full of them at Wembley when England played the rest of the world with most of the greats at the time on the field.
Do I enjoy driving my modern SUV any more than I enjoyed my first Wolsey Hornet? no, they are different I like it as much things move on, do I compare them? no, ones fond memories the new one a comfortable ride to get around in and much more complicated, enjoy today remember the greats, don't compare you can't.
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I've pointed this out several times before but here goes again.
There's a video online of the 1962 WC final. Brazil, the best team in history with Djalmar Santos, Didi, Vava, Garrincha etc. Against one of the best sides from Europe, Czechoslovakia who had got to the semi of the previous Euros and were headed by Masopust, the European Footballer of the Year.
If you're going to comment on this subject, watch the first minute before you do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=_YyeQj0TGyDCr_rf&t=61&v=2NJ_dSNj01E&feature=youtu.be&t=61
It's like a comedy piss take of what football was like in the old days. A top modern team would literally put 50 past them.
You cannot possibly argue that those players, given modern coaching, would be as good as DeBruyne or Haaland or Mbappe. They are literally playing a different sport.
That was the very best in the world, just 18 years before that 80/81 Rovers side, who were the 70th or so best side in one country.
Right, so you reckon the players are completely different nowadays? How is that?
Has evolution sped up exponentially in the past 50 years?
Best call the Royal society, they'll love to hear about your findings.
No. I think the GAME is utterly different and as a result the demands on players are unrecognisable from those in previous generations. As a result of THAT, it is frankly stupid to say that the SPECIFIC players from previous generations would be able to perform today if they were exposed to modern training and diets.
Of course, if you took a million kids with football talent from 1960 or 1980 and transposed them into the present day and trained, fed and taught them how modern kids are, you'd get equally good players. But it wouldn't be Pele or Moore or Beckenbauer or Snodin who'd make the grade. It'd be others who for various reasons were not suitable for football as it was set up in the 60s or 80s.
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You can make the argument the other way. Would today's players, who are basically playing with a balloon in carpet slippers, have developed the same skills, and played at the same pace, with the old casey ball, and heavy boots covering their ankles?
Watch the first minute of that video and tell me if you reckon Matthew Craig would misplaced a fiver yard pass when playing at walking pace with nobody pressing him, even if he was playing naked with his knackers in a vice?
Cos it happens about 5 times in that first minute.
You need to be careful with the semantics here, BST, because it sounds like you're suggesting that Matty Craig is a better player than Pele, Zito, Didi, Vava, and Garrincha.
Matty Craig playing today is objectively a far better player than any of those playing in their day. Absolutely no question.
He controls the ball, picks passes and makes tackles in a game that is unrecognisably faster and more physically demanding than it was in 1960 or 70.
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I've pointed this out several times before but here goes again.
There's a video online of the 1962 WC final. Brazil, the best team in history with Djalmar Santos, Didi, Vava, Garrincha etc. Against one of the best sides from Europe, Czechoslovakia who had got to the semi of the previous Euros and were headed by Masopust, the European Footballer of the Year.
If you're going to comment on this subject, watch the first minute before you do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=_YyeQj0TGyDCr_rf&t=61&v=2NJ_dSNj01E&feature=youtu.be&t=61
It's like a comedy piss take of what football was like in the old days. A top modern team would literally put 50 past them.
You cannot possibly argue that those players, given modern coaching, would be as good as DeBruyne or Haaland or Mbappe. They are literally playing a different sport.
That was the very best in the world, just 18 years before that 80/81 Rovers side, who were the 70th or so best side in one country.
Right, so you reckon the players are completely different nowadays? How is that?
Has evolution sped up exponentially in the past 50 years?
Best call the Royal society, they'll love to hear about your findings.
No. I think the GAME is utterly different and as a result the demands on players are unrecognisable from those in previous generations. As a result of THAT, it is frankly stupid to say that the SPECIFIC players from previous generations would be able to perform today if they were exposed to modern training and diets.
Of course, if you took a million kids with football talent from 1960 or 1980 and transposed them into the present day and trained, fed and taught them how modern kids are, you'd get equally good players. But it wouldn't be Pele or Moore or Beckenbauer or Snodin who'd make the grade. It'd be others who for various reasons were not suitable for football as it was set up in the 60s or 80s.
Are you actually saying Pele, moore, Beckenbauer or snodin wouldn't make the grade today? :laugh:
It's relative ! Those players, if they were born in 2000 would be playing at exactly the same level as they were back then.
Were not talking about a 24 Yr old Pele using a time machine to transport to the current time, which of course they would struggle.
If Pele was born in 2000 he'd still be the best.
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Under what refereeing laws and standards are we playing? A 70's ref would let the modern player get kicked to death no matter how good they are. A modern ref and the 70's lads would be getting early baths and maybe the game called off after they get down to , is it 6 or 7 players?
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I've pointed this out several times before but here goes again.
There's a video online of the 1962 WC final. Brazil, the best team in history with Djalmar Santos, Didi, Vava, Garrincha etc. Against one of the best sides from Europe, Czechoslovakia who had got to the semi of the previous Euros and were headed by Masopust, the European Footballer of the Year.
If you're going to comment on this subject, watch the first minute before you do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=_YyeQj0TGyDCr_rf&t=61&v=2NJ_dSNj01E&feature=youtu.be&t=61
It's like a comedy piss take of what football was like in the old days. A top modern team would literally put 50 past them.
You cannot possibly argue that those players, given modern coaching, would be as good as DeBruyne or Haaland or Mbappe. They are literally playing a different sport.
That was the very best in the world, just 18 years before that 80/81 Rovers side, who were the 70th or so best side in one country.
Right, so you reckon the players are completely different nowadays? How is that?
Has evolution sped up exponentially in the past 50 years?
Best call the Royal society, they'll love to hear about your findings.
No. I think the GAME is utterly different and as a result the demands on players are unrecognisable from those in previous generations. As a result of THAT, it is frankly stupid to say that the SPECIFIC players from previous generations would be able to perform today if they were exposed to modern training and diets.
Of course, if you took a million kids with football talent from 1960 or 1980 and transposed them into the present day and trained, fed and taught them how modern kids are, you'd get equally good players. But it wouldn't be Pele or Moore or Beckenbauer or Snodin who'd make the grade. It'd be others who for various reasons were not suitable for football as it was set up in the 60s or 80s.
Are you actually saying Pele, moore, Beckenbauer or snodin wouldn't make the grade today? :laugh:
It's relative ! Those players, if they were born in 2000 would be playing at exactly the same level as they were back then.
Were not talking about a 24 Yr old Pele using a time machine to transport to the current time, which of course they would struggle.
If Pele was born in 2000 he'd still be the best.
Yep I'm saying that.
In the same way that the Red Baron wouldn't be a Eurofighter pilot today. Because the skill sets required for the two eras are incomparably different.
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Well this bit of a fun thread turned out to be not so much fun!
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I've pointed this out several times before but here goes again.
There's a video online of the 1962 WC final. Brazil, the best team in history with Djalmar Santos, Didi, Vava, Garrincha etc. Against one of the best sides from Europe, Czechoslovakia who had got to the semi of the previous Euros and were headed by Masopust, the European Footballer of the Year.
If you're going to comment on this subject, watch the first minute before you do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=_YyeQj0TGyDCr_rf&t=61&v=2NJ_dSNj01E&feature=youtu.be&t=61
It's like a comedy piss take of what football was like in the old days. A top modern team would literally put 50 past them.
You cannot possibly argue that those players, given modern coaching, would be as good as DeBruyne or Haaland or Mbappe. They are literally playing a different sport.
That was the very best in the world, just 18 years before that 80/81 Rovers side, who were the 70th or so best side in one country.
Right, so you reckon the players are completely different nowadays? How is that?
Has evolution sped up exponentially in the past 50 years?
Best call the Royal society, they'll love to hear about your findings.
No. I think the GAME is utterly different and as a result the demands on players are unrecognisable from those in previous generations. As a result of THAT, it is frankly stupid to say that the SPECIFIC players from previous generations would be able to perform today if they were exposed to modern training and diets.
Of course, if you took a million kids with football talent from 1960 or 1980 and transposed them into the present day and trained, fed and taught them how modern kids are, you'd get equally good players. But it wouldn't be Pele or Moore or Beckenbauer or Snodin who'd make the grade. It'd be others who for various reasons were not suitable for football as it was set up in the 60s or 80s.
Are you actually saying Pele, moore, Beckenbauer or snodin wouldn't make the grade today? :laugh:
It's relative ! Those players, if they were born in 2000 would be playing at exactly the same level as they were back then.
Were not talking about a 24 Yr old Pele using a time machine to transport to the current time, which of course they would struggle.
If Pele was born in 2000 he'd still be the best.
Yep I'm saying that.
In the same way that the Red Baron wouldn't be a Eurofighter pilot today. Because the skill sets required for the two eras are incomparably different.
Wow, well I'm out.
Was it Mark twain who said don't argue with idiots, they will just bring you down and beat you with experience ?
I'll heed his advice. :byebye:
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I've pointed this out several times before but here goes again.
There's a video online of the 1962 WC final. Brazil, the best team in history with Djalmar Santos, Didi, Vava, Garrincha etc. Against one of the best sides from Europe, Czechoslovakia who had got to the semi of the previous Euros and were headed by Masopust, the European Footballer of the Year.
If you're going to comment on this subject, watch the first minute before you do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=_YyeQj0TGyDCr_rf&t=61&v=2NJ_dSNj01E&feature=youtu.be&t=61
It's like a comedy piss take of what football was like in the old days. A top modern team would literally put 50 past them.
You cannot possibly argue that those players, given modern coaching, would be as good as DeBruyne or Haaland or Mbappe. They are literally playing a different sport.
That was the very best in the world, just 18 years before that 80/81 Rovers side, who were the 70th or so best side in one country.
Right, so you reckon the players are completely different nowadays? How is that?
Has evolution sped up exponentially in the past 50 years?
Best call the Royal society, they'll love to hear about your findings.
No. I think the GAME is utterly different and as a result the demands on players are unrecognisable from those in previous generations. As a result of THAT, it is frankly stupid to say that the SPECIFIC players from previous generations would be able to perform today if they were exposed to modern training and diets.
Of course, if you took a million kids with football talent from 1960 or 1980 and transposed them into the present day and trained, fed and taught them how modern kids are, you'd get equally good players. But it wouldn't be Pele or Moore or Beckenbauer or Snodin who'd make the grade. It'd be others who for various reasons were not suitable for football as it was set up in the 60s or 80s.
Are you actually saying Pele, moore, Beckenbauer or snodin wouldn't make the grade today? :laugh:
It's relative ! Those players, if they were born in 2000 would be playing at exactly the same level as they were back then.
Were not talking about a 24 Yr old Pele using a time machine to transport to the current time, which of course they would struggle.
If Pele was born in 2000 he'd still be the best.
Of course it is impossible to say for sure but to categorically say none of those four players wouldn’t make the grade in the modern game if they had been born in 2000 is some statement.
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Matty Craig is better than Pele.
Wow, just wow.
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Paul Gasgoine would absolutely dominate world football if he was born in 2000 and had a 24/7 shrink.
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Class would be class whichever generation they played in or moved to. The players back then may have had bad habits, as do today’s players, mentally some of the players were stronger than the current generation in some aspects. Whereas some of this generation maybe deal with the publicity side better than those in the past would have done. It evens itself out.
Stanley Matthews with lighter boots even better conditioning than he himself made sure he had. Would have been worth a fortune in today’s game. The real class players would do it in any era.
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I've always found this such a divisive argument because people can't often differentiate between better (in absolute terms) and greater.
Better allows for the growth and improvement of the game. The Cryuff turn for example. groudbreaking in the 70's, basic playground skills in the 90's. It also muddies the waters when you try and compare decades due to training/diets/coaching etc. I'm sure a lot would disagree with me when I say Raheem Sterling would dominate a lot of 70's players, but they'd be wrong to confuse strength with toughness.
"Greatness" is where the debate kicks in as thats where you have to try and allow for these factors. Best vs Hoddle vs Gascoigne vs Henry - pitch quality/lenient refs/slow defenders
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Good post DN.
For me, "Greatness" is ranked by how someone was compared to the standards of their time.
So yes, of course Pele, Moore, Beckenbauer and (by our standards) Snodin were true Greats. Nobody would ever argue otherwise.
But the demands of the modern game are now utterly different from what they were.
The Greats of today cover twice the distance that players did in Pele's time. AND play to a highly ordered and disciplined system. AND exhibit individual skills far, far more impressive than Pele ever did.
My contention is that it stretches credibility to think that the specific individual greats of yesteryear could double the aerobic effort required, AND perform as well as they did back then when playing at a higher pace AND improve their skills beyond recognition AND perform those skills in the organised game of today.
I'm not saying no-one from those generations could. But it would have likely been other people, ones with the aptitude to tick all those boxes.
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Specific to English football, there's also a no-brainer argument why a good Tier 4 side is today is far above a good Tier 4 side from 40-50 years ago.
A side at the top of Tier 4 is roughly the 70th best in England. Assuming each club has a first team squad of say 28-30, that means the good Tier 4 side has players who are roughly the 2000th best in the country (on average...some will be a bit better, some a bit worse).
50 years ago, nearly every player in the English league was from the British Isles.
So, 50 years ago, the good Tier 4 side had roughly the 2000th best British and Irish players on its books.
Today, there are over 400 players in the PL alone who are not from the British Isles. I don't know how many in other divisions, but I'd guess another 5-600.
In which case, the good Tier 4 side of today has "home" players who are about the 1000th best in the British Isles.
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40/50 years ago the starting eleven usually played the full 90 minutes and most would play every game of the season. There was one sub allowed and was often not used. The players of that era were required to play this way and would have had to pace themselves to be able to do it.
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40/50 years ago the starting eleven usually played the full 90 minutes and most would play every game of the season. There was one sub allowed and was often not used. The players of that era were required to play this way and would have had to pace themselves to be able to do it.
Apart fro the pace of the game now the thing that impresses me most is the skill most players possess. We now see defenders pinging 50yard balls and their first touch in a lot of cases is as good or better as the midfielders back in the day. It is a far cry from the lump it forward brigade. Anybody that saw Dave Blakey play centre half for Chesterfield back in the late 50s early 60s will know what I mean.
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Agree, Idler but today's players are 'pinging' a ball that weight far less than the old caseys of 50 years ago.
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Agree, Idler but today's players are 'pinging' a ball that weight far less than the old caseys of 50 years ago.
That is true but I’m not sure that too many defenders tried to hone the attacking side of the game.
A lot of today’s defenders can kill a ball in an instant and then play a decent pass even at speed.
Very few defenders had that skill years ago.
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But of course no one can say that the likes of Moore and Beckenbauer couldn’t have been doing the same thing had they been born in 2000.
It is all just opinion and speculation.
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The demands on defenders and goalkeepers in the modern game are the biggest difference from the old days.
A few years ago, I watched a YouTube video of the England-West Germany match from Italia 90.
A minute in, there's a through ball for Lineker. Kohler gets there first, but he's 20 yards out, running towards his own goal with Lineker neck and neck with him. Illgner, the keeper is crazily running towards them, rather than making space for himself to receive a back pass and play it out. I'm out of my seat thinking "I don't remember this chance".
Kohler lays the ball back to Illgner and Lineker's no more than 3 yards from him and bearing down. The keeper's been put in a dreadful position.
...and Illgner just drops on the ball and pulls it to his chest.
I'd clean forgotten how easily defenders and keepers had it when they'd got the Get Out Of Jail card of being able to pick up a back pass.
Banning that is the single best change in the Laws of the game in my lifetime. And it's meant that defenders and keepers now have to be proper footballers in a way that wasn't remotely on the agenda 35 years ago.
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Love discussions like this as we all have views.
I just like remembering how players compared to those at the time. I used to think Glynn Snodin was the best free-kick taker I had ever seen. Even that would be different now.
Interesting to know how far back in time people think you can compare like for like.
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40/50 years ago the starting eleven usually played the full 90 minutes and most would play every game of the season. There was one sub allowed and was often not used. The players of that era were required to play this way and would have had to pace themselves to be able to do it.
Yep I can't remember the exact stat, but didn't Villa win the league in the early 80's using only 14 players?
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The demands on defenders and goalkeepers in the modern game are the biggest difference from the old days.
A few years ago, I watched a YouTube video of the England-West Germany match from Italia 90.
A minute in, there's a through ball for Lineker. Kohler gets there first, but he's 20 yards out, running towards his own goal with Lineker neck and neck with him. Illgner, the keeper is crazily running towards them, rather than making space for himself to receive a back pass and play it out. I'm out of my seat thinking "I don't remember this chance".
Kohler lays the ball back to Illgner and Lineker's no more than 3 yards from him and bearing down. The keeper's been put in a dreadful position.
...and Illgner just drops on the ball and pulls it to his chest.
I'd clean forgotten how easily defenders and keepers had it when they'd got the Get Out Of Jail card of being able to pick up a back pass.
Banning that is the single best change in the Laws of the game in my lifetime. And it's meant that defenders and keepers now have to be proper footballers in a way that wasn't remotely on the agenda 35 years ago.
Yep - you only have to look at how Des Walker went from world class to liability almost overnight when it came in. And for all the love of Liverpool's style in the 80's, a lot of it was based on being able to pass back then press the resulting kick in the opponents half.