Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: RoversAlias on August 12, 2017, 05:35:37 pm

Title: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: RoversAlias on August 12, 2017, 05:35:37 pm
A slightly cheeky title perhaps, but it's worth pointing out that Butler and Wright were excellent today, dominayed the back line and kept Danny Graham quiet. I think Wright has been faultless in both games so far, let's hope he keeps it going.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on August 12, 2017, 05:38:29 pm
Agreed, although Danny Graham has stole a wage wherever he's been!
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: craigdrfc on August 12, 2017, 05:45:44 pm
Wright was outstanding today
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Alan Southstand on August 12, 2017, 05:56:33 pm
Yes, we do. One injury and we have nobody!
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: dickos1 on August 12, 2017, 05:57:25 pm
We have Alcock, and soon we will have baudry and McCullough. I wouldn't sign another
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: drfchound on August 12, 2017, 05:57:59 pm
When is Baudry due back.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on August 12, 2017, 05:58:18 pm
So far you'd say no. Wright was excellent today I thought.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 12, 2017, 05:59:01 pm
Given the three at the back system that Ferguson often plays, you only need one 'real' centre back in the middle and then two 'pretend' centre backs either side such as Alcock or Mason for instance.

For the four at back then at present we struggle but when Baudry and McCullough come back we have four genuine centre backs there. So long as we can hold our breath next few weeks and not get an injury to either Butler or Wright then we are all good I think.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: nortikorner on August 12, 2017, 06:02:21 pm
McCullough your having a laugh
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Rovers91 on August 12, 2017, 06:05:16 pm
We do still need another centre half but credit to Butler and Wright so far they are keeping it solid. Wright has the potential to be a cracking centre half.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Paul Simpson on August 12, 2017, 06:13:13 pm
Why spoil what we've got? Butler and Baudry (when fit have the experience.) Wright is proving to be good enough and then we have Luke and Craig who know this league well enough. Save the money and bring in Houghton imo 😀👍
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 12, 2017, 06:14:30 pm
The young West Brom lad would add healthy competition.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Rovers91 on August 12, 2017, 06:36:21 pm
Why spoil what we've got? Butler and Baudry (when fit have the experience.) Wright is proving to be good enough and then we have Luke and Craig who know this league well enough. Save the money and bring in Houghton imo 😀👍

Alcock isn't good enough, he's not played well for 12 months. Luke isn't fit and when he is fit he will only play centre half now if we are absolutely desperate, he will fight for the holding role.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: mushRTID on August 12, 2017, 06:37:40 pm
I'd still get one.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Alan Southstand on August 12, 2017, 06:40:36 pm
We want Houghton and a cb, not one or the other
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: johnny rovers on August 12, 2017, 06:45:23 pm
If we are all honest with ourselves.. we really do need one!
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: GazLaz on August 12, 2017, 06:52:27 pm
Wright was class today. Very good on the ball.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 12, 2017, 07:14:11 pm
Garratt is capable at center back.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Jonathan on August 12, 2017, 07:39:28 pm
Wright is excellent and his performances are no surprise. He has everything you'd want in a centre half but he's still young. I'd say we have enough to get by, but if we have ambitions to mount a sustained challenge in the higher reaches of the league then we need to add another that's capable of improving us. Permanent deal though - there's no point in a loanee going into the mix.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Rovers91 on August 12, 2017, 07:45:01 pm
Garratt is capable at center back.

He can play there on the left in a 3 but wouldn't want him playing centre back in a 2.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: dknward2 on August 12, 2017, 09:33:46 pm
I would get one in on loan that we have a chance of signing I.e someone in the final year contract and if he does well and we are in and around the playoffs at the end of Jan put an offer in
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Pancho Regan on August 12, 2017, 09:44:38 pm
I have to say, what an excellent performance today by Wright.

That lad has really matured. Started to make me doubt whether we need another CB, but if he or Butler got injured we would be light.
I rate Alcock though, so we're not desperate.

Looking good, well done DF
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: mrfrostsdad on August 12, 2017, 09:47:35 pm
For me, yes
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Alan Southstand on August 12, 2017, 10:45:26 pm
Howkins gone on loan to.............

......Cambridge?

What a waste!
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Jonathan on August 12, 2017, 11:02:10 pm
Howkins gone on loan to.............

......Cambridge?

What a waste!

I wouldn't see the point in us signing a young player like Howkins on loan anyway. We have a good young centre half in Joe Wright and I'd rather we developed him than somebody else's player.

We could do with adding another central defender into our mix in the long term interests of our club but (barring further injuries) not a loanee that will block our own development and leave us short again in 6-12 months time.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Alan Southstand on August 13, 2017, 07:03:53 am
I notice DF has shifted 3 youngsters out on loan, including Fielding, Walker and Jones. Is he making room for another incoming?
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: RobTheRover on August 13, 2017, 07:44:20 am
Why spoil what we've got? Butler and Baudry (when fit have the experience.) Wright is proving to be good enough and then we have Luke and Craig who know this league well enough. Save the money and bring in Houghton imo 😀👍

Alcock isn't good enough, he's not played well for 12 months. Luke isn't fit and when he is fit he will only play centre half now if we are absolutely desperate, he will fight for the holding role.

He needs to work on his distribution if that's where he sees himself playing IMHO. Too many loose passes in the Hartlepool game as an example.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: balbyrover on August 13, 2017, 08:06:31 am
I notice DF has shifted 3 youngsters out on loan, including Fielding, Walker and Jones. Is he making room for another incoming?

I wouldn't read too much into that. Probably just the fact that he has a strong 18 available now.
No point keeping the youngsters sat in the stands every game when they can go play football.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Alan Southstand on August 13, 2017, 11:59:08 am
I thought we were having a reserve side this season?
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 13, 2017, 12:05:39 pm
I thought Fielding did OK on loan last season. Why isn't he at a higher level?
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: balbyrover on August 13, 2017, 12:40:36 pm
I thought Fielding did OK on loan last season. Why isn't he at a higher level?

I thought that..seems quite a low level to be playing at.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: glosterred on August 13, 2017, 01:03:43 pm
I thought Fielding did OK on loan last season. Why isn't he at a higher level?

I thought that..seems quite a low level to be playing at.

Would higher placed teams be willing to guarantee starting positions for these young lads, probably not.


COYR
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: dickos1 on August 13, 2017, 01:46:38 pm
Nobody should be a guaranteed a starting place anywhere
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: steve@dcfd on August 13, 2017, 06:37:17 pm
All three are on initial loans of month,  the reserve league, the Central league, does not start until September so he might bring them back for then.

About the level they are playing it's about which teams want them, they are young players.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: drfchound on August 13, 2017, 09:17:48 pm
Why spoil what we've got? Butler and Baudry (when fit have the experience.) Wright is proving to be good enough and then we have Luke and Craig who know this league well enough. Save the money and bring in Houghton imo 😀👍

Alcock isn't good enough, he's not played well for 12 months. Luke isn't fit and when he is fit he will only play centre half now if we are absolutely desperate, he will fight for the holding role.

He needs to work on his distribution if that's where he sees himself playing IMHO. Too many loose passes in the Hartlepool game as an example.




TBF Luke had had four very good games prior to Hartlepool.
Fans had rated his performances highly.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Paul Simpson on August 13, 2017, 10:09:18 pm
People remember the odd bad performance over the many very good ones?
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: IDM on August 13, 2017, 10:26:42 pm
Some do, yes..

I thought Luke had slotted back into the team very well after his injury, like he had never been missing.. any player can have a poor game..

I have been saying for ages that Luke will make an outstanding defensive midfielder..
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: wing commander on August 14, 2017, 10:37:14 am
    I'm tipping Wright to be a bit of a star this season...He was terribly unlucky not to get much of a chance last season even Ferguson said that, as he didn't let us down when called upon,he didn't throw his toys out the pram he just worked hard waiting for a chance...Give him a run in the team and chance to get a good understanding going and he will feel like a new signing for us..
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: anton123 on August 14, 2017, 12:16:44 pm
Joe will be a £2 million defender in 2 years the next mat mills for us I believe keep up the good work son
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: ravenrover on August 14, 2017, 01:16:49 pm
Nobody should be a guaranteed a starting place anywhere
Unless of course it's part of the loan agreement😉
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: RoversAlias on August 14, 2017, 01:24:39 pm
McCullough was brilliant at Grimsby, ran the show in a 5-1 win and this was immediately after coming back from almost the full year out with a very bad knee injury. He was excellent in every game until the Hartlepool match which Fergie said immediately afterwards was a game too far for him and he took the blame for selecting him when he shouldn't have.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: dickos1 on August 14, 2017, 03:53:56 pm
Nobody should be a guaranteed a starting place anywhere
Unless of course it's part of the loan agreement😉

That's what I mean, agreements shouldn't be made like that.
Ferguson won't sign anyone that stipulates a guaranteed starting place.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: steve@dcfd on August 14, 2017, 04:06:48 pm
There is a question about Baudrys and McCulloughs injury record with either the same Achilles and Knee being injured again. Will they come back fully fit, will they have same problems weeks into the season.

So I believe we need another central defender and if we can Houghton back. We don't need the defender or Houghton to come in with stipulations they must play. Wright and Butler at moment are playing well. But any injury to them would leave us short.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: drfchound on August 14, 2017, 04:11:03 pm
STEVE, I may be wrong but i feel sure that when Luke was injured DF said it was a different injury to the one he had last season.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: ravenrover on August 14, 2017, 06:25:13 pm
Nobody should be a guaranteed a starting place anywhere
Unless of course it's part of the loan agreement😉

That's what I mean, agreements shouldn't be made like that.
Ferguson won't sign anyone that stipulates a guaranteed starting place.
Are you sure about that?
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: dickos1 on August 14, 2017, 11:04:17 pm
He's said it himself.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: ravenrover on August 15, 2017, 11:14:46 am
Strange how he persisted in playing Calder and Grant even though they weren't performing very well, Mason and Houghton played well so deserved to be picked each week but I still have my doubts DF says a lot of things sometimes which turn out to be not quite the truth
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: idler on August 15, 2017, 11:43:49 am
Unless he has learned his lesson with those two.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: dickos1 on August 15, 2017, 10:52:08 pm
Strange how he persisted in playing Calder and Grant even though they weren't performing very well, Mason and Houghton played well so deserved to be picked each week but I still have my doubts DF says a lot of things sometimes which turn out to be not quite the truth

Calder and grant were on the bench numerous times
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on August 16, 2017, 12:06:13 am
On month long loans then there's likely to be clauses about the loanee playing every game but, that's unlikely for longer term loans like Whiteman's and Kongolo's.

As for Wright, he looks as though he has improved however, he's got a little way to go yet in experience to be the dominant centre half. The signs are good though.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: ravenrover on August 16, 2017, 07:51:47 pm
Strange how he persisted in playing Calder and Grant even though they weren't performing very well, Mason and Houghton played well so deserved to be picked each week but I still have my doubts DF says a lot of things sometimes which turn out to be not quite the truth

Calder and grant were on the bench numerous times
Agreed, but mainly towards the end of their loan period when it was obvious we weren't going to extend
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: TheFunk on August 16, 2017, 08:30:45 pm
I saw an interview with Harry Redknapp recently and he was talking about loans. Apparently a lot of clubs do insist on the players getting a game and the penalty for not starting them is a doubling of the weekly contribution. Scary thought if true.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: drfchound on August 16, 2017, 08:37:30 pm
Back on topic, the Daily Star today has a piece with DF saying he is puzzled why some fans were doubting Andy Butlers capability to do the business in L1 and that he is cooling his chase for a new CB.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: GazLaz on August 16, 2017, 08:42:14 pm
Back on topic, the Daily Star today has a piece with DF saying he is puzzled why some fans were doubting Andy Butlers capability to do the business in L1 and that he is cooling his chase for a new CB.

Why was he looking for another one then, he either thought Butler or Wright weren't up to it and he thinks he's been proven wrong.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: mushRTID on August 16, 2017, 08:44:15 pm
Butler was shocking last time in league one so you can't blame fans doubting, it's natural.

However he's come back in unreal shape and has started well by all accounts (iv only been Gillingham game) so fair play to him.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: swintonrover on August 16, 2017, 08:47:04 pm
I don't want a new CB because of a slight on Wright or Butler, but if one of them gets injured we're in trouble. We've got no depth at Centre Back.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: drfchound on August 16, 2017, 08:53:21 pm
Back on topic, the Daily Star today has a piece with DF saying he is puzzled why some fans were doubting Andy Butlers capability to do the business in L1 and that he is cooling his chase for a new CB.

Why was he looking for another one then, he either thought Butler or Wright weren't up to it and he thinks he's been proven wrong.




I think the latter is the truth.
Anyone who thinks Andy was shocking in L1 should also consider that he was playing in a system that, in the main, didn't suit the players we had at that time.
He is always better in a four.
He will prove a lot of doubters wrong this season.

Also, don't forget that Baudry is back soon.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Alan Southstand on August 16, 2017, 09:12:53 pm
We're going found in circles with this. We know Bawdry and McCullough are both supposed to be back fairly soon. What none of us know is whether either of them or both are going to come back and be fit and well. You're assuming they are and we all hope they are, but......

Also, we have 3 tough games next week and the one part of the team where we can't rest anyone is at cb. Go figure.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Brian Young on August 16, 2017, 09:31:02 pm
We have historically not been blessed with good luck where defenders are concerned, you've only got look at Jones who until he came to Rovers didn't have day off and gets injured once and it was down hill from there on . We lost the same two defenders last season and we list Butler for the odd game . So I think one more would make sense , yet it seems unlikely perhaps due to constraints on the wage bill.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: mushRTID on August 16, 2017, 09:33:28 pm
We have historically not been blessed with good luck where defenders are concerned, you've only got look at Jones who until he came to Rovers didn't have day off and gets injured once and it was down hill from there on . We lost the same two defenders last season and we list Butler for the odd game . So I think one more would make sense , yet it seems unlikely perhaps due to constraints on the wage bill.

The money will still be there that we offered Taylor won't it?
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 16, 2017, 09:37:46 pm
Back on topic, the Daily Star today has a piece with DF saying he is puzzled why some fans were doubting Andy Butlers capability to do the business in L1 and that he is cooling his chase for a new CB.

Why was he looking for another one then, he either thought Butler or Wright weren't up to it and he thinks he's been proven wrong.

Because he prefers playing 3 at the back?
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 16, 2017, 09:39:19 pm
Butler was shocking last time in league one so you can't blame fans doubting, it's natural.

However he's come back in unreal shape and has started well by all accounts (iv only been Gillingham game) so fair play to him.

No one looked good that season. Confidence was gone.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Brian Young on August 16, 2017, 09:40:55 pm
Yes that true it did look promising as well , yet he went elsewhere for MORE money .
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: silent majority on August 17, 2017, 08:38:47 am
Yes that true it did look promising as well , yet he went elsewhere for MORE money .

So, do you think we should just pay whatever the player/agent asks for?
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Brian Young on August 17, 2017, 09:01:01 am
No we should stick to a principle of getting the best for your money and were priced out on budget but that's what it has come down to . If we had signed him would the issue of what Rovers paid him be public knowledge, it only because we didn't sign him that our budget has become the issue . I think DF is doing a fantastic job of building without gambling with his budget .
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on August 17, 2017, 10:44:56 am
I'm happy with Butler, he's solid enough, rarely injured, a senior well respected figure and a great ambassador.

Of course, there will a time when we need to look for successors. Whether Joe Wright matures into his shoes time will tell. If, and a big if, we get up to the Championship then we may need quality in that department so we may need more than Butler, Wright & Baudry can offer.

We may look for a Matt Mills type all rounder, but they don't grow on trees.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: idler on August 17, 2017, 12:49:12 pm
No we should stick to a principle of getting the best for your money and were priced out on budget but that's what it has come down to . If we had signed him would the issue of what Rovers paid him be public knowledge, it only because we didn't sign him that our budget has become the issue . I think DF is doing a fantastic job of building without gambling with his budget .
The problem isn't just public knowledge though is it. I would imagine that his team mates would know the region of his wage demands. They might then form a queue at DF's door wanting a rise or a move.
Title: Re: Do we need a centre half?
Post by: Brian Young on August 17, 2017, 01:46:26 pm
That not what I said , I referred to the fact we only found out what his demands were, as the reason for why we didn't sign him and  was out of our budget.