No Brexit Extension

[Ldr]

How many neo-liberal and market-led organisations impose environmental and worker condition standards on companies? How many of them disburse billions of euros to economically disadvantaged areas?

If we had stayed in the EU, South Yorkshire would have been in line for €3.3bn of money from the EU over the next 7 years. Paid for by the tax payers of Milan, Frankfurt, Stockholm and Barcelona.

Unfortunately, Tyke and his mates decided that we were better off telling them to stick that, and empowering the most right wing Tory party in our lifetimes to decide how our economy should be run. Because...well Christ knows to be honest.

Explain to me how this works pls BST. As a nation we were a net contributor to the EU. Why would money spent here be then from another country rather than simply our contribution back

[tyke1962]

How many neo-liberal and market-led organisations impose environmental and worker condition standards on companies? How many of them disburse billions of euros to economically disadvantaged areas?

If we had stayed in the EU, South Yorkshire would have been in line for €3.3bn of money from the EU over the next 7 years. Paid for by the tax payers of Milan, Frankfurt, Stockholm and Barcelona.

Unfortunately, Tyke and his mates decided that we were better off telling them to stick that, and empowering the most right wing Tory party in our lifetimes to decide how our economy should be run. Because...well Christ knows to be honest.

Billy have you ever tried looking at life without a monetary mandate ? .

You sound more like Thatcher every day .

There's no such thing as society ..... right !! .

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

I recognise them 100%. I just disagree that taking a wrecking ball to the issue will help overall.

At base, if people are getting on economically, no-one really gives a shit about immigration. That is demonstrated throughout history. Anti-immigrant stances become prominent when people are struggling economically.

So to address an immigration issue by choosing to make ourselves markedly less wealthy for a generation, while in practice doing nothing to limit immigration is not a recipe for dealing with this issue. It is likely to make the resentment and anger far, far worse when people realise that they aren't getting the brighter future they were promised.

Billy

There is no economic benefit of membership of the EU for many of leave voters because it's a neoliberal and market led organisation .

Thatcher destroyed areas around here and Blair didn't do enough to improve things .

So they hang their hat on culture and their communities .

Multiculturalism is embraced by the graduate and big city metropolitan voter , they move around more , their jobs take them abroad etc ..... I get it .

However millions don't , they have low paid jobs and stay in the communities they were born in and make the best of that .

They don't want to see their communities change or their values challenged ...... mars and venus mate .

I firmly believe many are prepared to take the economic hit in return to live in communities they desire .

They have nowt anyway other than their family , community and their cultural values .

Colours well and truly nailed there, Tyke.  What bizarre logic you have.

I wonder what those people who voted to leave the EU because of 'multiculturism' think to 600000 Chinese people arriving in the UK in the next 2 years?

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2020/12/14/2003748697

Tell thi what Wilts .

Why don't you come up one day from Wiltshire and have a walk around that big estate at Rosso and tell em how good multiculturalism is .

Let me know how you go on .

[Glyn_Wigley]

Good ol' xenophobia, we got there in the end.

[SydneyRover]

How many neo-liberal and market-led organisations impose environmental and worker condition standards on companies? How many of them disburse billions of euros to economically disadvantaged areas?

If we had stayed in the EU, South Yorkshire would have been in line for €3.3bn of money from the EU over the next 7 years. Paid for by the tax payers of Milan, Frankfurt, Stockholm and Barcelona.

Unfortunately, Tyke and his mates decided that we were better off telling them to stick that, and empowering the most right wing Tory party in our lifetimes to decide how our economy should be run. Because...well Christ knows to be honest.

Billy have you ever tried looking at life without a monetary mandate ? .

You sound more like Thatcher every day .

There's no such thing as society ..... right !! .

You're not wrong at all Tyke, there is society but when you separate it from access to money then society breaks down, not money per se but the ability to feed, clothe and have a roof.

Look at the famine in Ireland where aound a million died and 2 million left. After ww2 a couple of million left Britain. People, not all of course but leave for more prosperous areas within and without the country to form and join new societies.

I'm not saying society will break down to that extent but over time people, younger people just get up and go.

[tyke1962]

Good ol' xenophobia, we got there in the end.

Thanks Glyn , I wouldn't have expected anything less from people such as yourself .

That's all I have , you ain't worth the bother , accept at the ballot box ....... you lose .

The ballot box is king pal .

[Not Now Kato]

Tyke.

I recognise them 100%. I just disagree that taking a wrecking ball to the issue will help overall.

At base, if people are getting on economically, no-one really gives a shit about immigration. That is demonstrated throughout history. Anti-immigrant stances become prominent when people are struggling economically.

So to address an immigration issue by choosing to make ourselves markedly less wealthy for a generation, while in practice doing nothing to limit immigration is not a recipe for dealing with this issue. It is likely to make the resentment and anger far, far worse when people realise that they aren't getting the brighter future they were promised.

Billy

There is no economic benefit of membership of the EU for many of leave voters because it's a neoliberal and market led organisation .

Thatcher destroyed areas around here and Blair didn't do enough to improve things .

So they hang their hat on culture and their communities .

Multiculturalism is embraced by the graduate and big city metropolitan voter , they move around more , their jobs take them abroad etc ..... I get it .

However millions don't , they have low paid jobs and stay in the communities they were born in and make the best of that .

They don't want to see their communities change or their values challenged ...... mars and venus mate .

I firmly believe many are prepared to take the economic hit in return to live in communities they desire .

They have nowt anyway other than their family , community and their cultural values .

Colours well and truly nailed there, Tyke.  What bizarre logic you have.

I wonder what those people who voted to leave the EU because of 'multiculturism' think to 600000 Chinese people arriving in the UK in the next 2 years?

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2020/12/14/2003748697

Tell thi what Wilts .

Why don't you come up one day from Wiltshire and have a walk around that big estate at Rosso and tell em how good multiculturalism is .

Let me know how you go on .

Nah, the Mail and the Express can do that for them already....
 

 
 

 
 
I'm guessing you believe this shit too Tyke?

[selby]

  Wilt's those 600000 Chinese from Hong Kong are escaping a  regime that want to dictate everything about their life, subjugate them to their rules and dictate their working lives and what they are allowed to doand integrate them into China, the same with Taiwan
  Seventeen million voted to escape   a similar regime that has developed in Brussels, and now want you to crawl over broken glass. If China were doing to Hong Kong and Taiwan what the EU are trying to do to the UK the western world's press would be all over it.
   The Americans and Australian navies are sailing war ships and flying aircraft every day in and over seas that China are trying to claim from other countries because of the other countries sovereignty, yet you support France's right to roll all over our rights.
  I suppose if Hong Kong and Taiwan had  Tory leaders  you wouldn't mind just giving them to China.

[Not Now Kato]

  Wilt's those 600000 Chinese from Hong Kong are escaping a  regime that want to dictate everything about their life, subjugate them to their rules and dictate their working lives and what they are allowed to doand integrate them into China, the same with Taiwan
  Seventeen million voted to escape   a similar regime that has developed in Brussels, and now want you to crawl over broken glass. If China were doing to Hong Kong and Taiwan what the EU are trying to do to the UK the western world's press would be all over it.
   The Americans and Australian navies are sailing war ships and flying aircraft every day in and over seas that China are trying to claim from other countries because of the other countries sovereignty, yet you support France's right to roll all over our rights.
  I suppose if Hong Kong and Taiwan had  Tory leaders  you wouldn't mind just giving them to China.

Forgotten your medication again tonight Selby?
 

[MachoMadness]

Jesus Selby you actually scare me sometimes. Some of your posts read like excerpts from a mass shooter's manifesto. I really have to wonder what happened to people like this to warp them so much.

[IDM]

The EU treatment of the UK similar to China’s treatment of Hong Kong.?

You’re having a bubble..

[Glyn_Wigley]

Good ol' xenophobia, we got there in the end.

Thanks Glyn , I wouldn't have expected anything less from people such as yourself .

That's all I have , you ain't worth the bother , accept at the ballot box ....... you lose .

The ballot box is king pal .

Well, when every other reason is stripped away and this argument is all you're left  with, what do you expect others to think of you? The fact that it wins an election doesn't change its nature.

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

I recognise them 100%. I just disagree that taking a wrecking ball to the issue will help overall.

At base, if people are getting on economically, no-one really gives a shit about immigration. That is demonstrated throughout history. Anti-immigrant stances become prominent when people are struggling economically.

So to address an immigration issue by choosing to make ourselves markedly less wealthy for a generation, while in practice doing nothing to limit immigration is not a recipe for dealing with this issue. It is likely to make the resentment and anger far, far worse when people realise that they aren't getting the brighter future they were promised.

Billy

There is no economic benefit of membership of the EU for many of leave voters because it's a neoliberal and market led organisation .

Thatcher destroyed areas around here and Blair didn't do enough to improve things .

So they hang their hat on culture and their communities .

Multiculturalism is embraced by the graduate and big city metropolitan voter , they move around more , their jobs take them abroad etc ..... I get it .

However millions don't , they have low paid jobs and stay in the communities they were born in and make the best of that .

They don't want to see their communities change or their values challenged ...... mars and venus mate .

I firmly believe many are prepared to take the economic hit in return to live in communities they desire .

They have nowt anyway other than their family , community and their cultural values .

Colours well and truly nailed there, Tyke.  What bizarre logic you have.

I wonder what those people who voted to leave the EU because of 'multiculturism' think to 600000 Chinese people arriving in the UK in the next 2 years?

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2020/12/14/2003748697

Tell thi what Wilts .

Why don't you come up one day from Wiltshire and have a walk around that big estate at Rosso and tell em how good multiculturalism is .

Let me know how you go on .

Nah, the Mail and the Express can do that for them already....
 

 
 

 
 
I'm guessing you believe this shit too Tyke?

You guess ?

Of course you do .

Come to my doorstep with a red rosette on wanting my vote and throw this my way and I'll tell you this .

I'm more concerned about ZHC 's , the lack of affordable housing , in work poverty , foodbanks , the grug dealers across the road etc etc  and I'll say said person with red rosette on will look at their feet .

Do I care about migrants crossing the channel yes I do but in some kind of order I have to say .

Until some of your tribe except that localised issues are more important than solving the world's problems you are electorally irrelevant .

That's a solid fact by the way .

[tyke1962]

Good ol' xenophobia, we got there in the end.

Thanks Glyn , I wouldn't have expected anything less from people such as yourself .

That's all I have , you ain't worth the bother , accept at the ballot box ....... you lose .

The ballot box is king pal .

Well, when every other reason is stripped away and this argument is all you're left  with, what do you expect others to think of you? The fact that it wins an election doesn't change its nature.

Because you don't see my issue and the first port of call is THAT CARD .

It's all you have , you don't see I have a problem with globalisation and it's effects on areas like I live in .

So out it comes , the card to end the debate .

It's actually you who are out of touch and stupid if the truth be told .

[Glyn_Wigley]

Good ol' xenophobia, we got there in the end.

Thanks Glyn , I wouldn't have expected anything less from people such as yourself .

That's all I have , you ain't worth the bother , accept at the ballot box ....... you lose .

The ballot box is king pal .

Well, when every other reason is stripped away and this argument is all you're left  with, what do you expect others to think of you? The fact that it wins an election doesn't change its nature.

Because you don't see my issue and the first port of call is THAT CARD .

It's all you have , you don't see I have a problem with globalisation and it's effects on areas like I live in .

So out it comes , the card to end the debate .

It's actually you who are out of touch and stupid if the truth be told .

I'm not ending any debate, feel free to tell us which particular migrants you have a problem with and how Brexit will solve it for you.

[selby]

  So when the Chinese give protesters a good hiding it is different to the Spanish Police in Barcelona is it?
  When the British try to expel illegal migrants without threat to their lives, it is worse than the Greeks towing and turning back migrant inflatable boats in Dangerous seas Is it?
  Close your eyes and bury your heads in the sand, everything is bright and shiny, or is it just forgettable in la la land.

[DonnyOsmond]

  So when the Chinese give protesters a good hiding it is different to the Spanish Police in Barcelona is it?
  When the British try to expel illegal migrants without threat to their lives, it is worse than the Greeks towing and turning back migrant inflatable boats in Dangerous seas Is it?
  Close your eyes and bury your heads in the sand, everything is bright and shiny, or is it just forgettable in la la land.

Can you not see the irony in the ending to your post?

[Glyn_Wigley]

  So when the Chinese give protesters a good hiding it is different to the Spanish Police in Barcelona is it?
  When the British try to expel illegal migrants without threat to their lives, it is worse than the Greeks towing and turning back migrant inflatable boats in Dangerous seas Is it?
  Close your eyes and bury your heads in the sand, everything is bright and shiny, or is it just forgettable in la la land.

I'm amazed you're showing your face in this thread again after making such a complete pillock of yourself last time.

[tyke1962]

How many neo-liberal and market-led organisations impose environmental and worker condition standards on companies? How many of them disburse billions of euros to economically disadvantaged areas?

If we had stayed in the EU, South Yorkshire would have been in line for €3.3bn of money from the EU over the next 7 years. Paid for by the tax payers of Milan, Frankfurt, Stockholm and Barcelona.

Unfortunately, Tyke and his mates decided that we were better off telling them to stick that, and empowering the most right wing Tory party in our lifetimes to decide how our economy should be run. Because...well Christ knows to be honest.

Billy have you ever tried looking at life without a monetary mandate ? .

You sound more like Thatcher every day .

There's no such thing as society ..... right !! .

You're not wrong at all Tyke, there is society but when you separate it from access to money then society breaks down, not money per se but the ability to feed, clothe and have a roof.

Look at the famine in Ireland where aound a million died and 2 million left. After ww2 a couple of million left Britain. People, not all of course but leave for more prosperous areas within and without the country to form and join new societies.

I'm not saying society will break down to that extent but over time people, younger people just get up and go.

Ok Sydney I'll take this on .

Your going back in time to when the world was a different place .

So I'll ask you this question .

A 21 year old lad who is unskilled and wants to better him self away from the UK economically where does he go  ?

If this thing is all things to all people meaning globalisation then it should be a very simple question to answer .

[BillyStubbsTears]

How many neo-liberal and market-led organisations impose environmental and worker condition standards on companies? How many of them disburse billions of euros to economically disadvantaged areas?

If we had stayed in the EU, South Yorkshire would have been in line for €3.3bn of money from the EU over the next 7 years. Paid for by the tax payers of Milan, Frankfurt, Stockholm and Barcelona.

Unfortunately, Tyke and his mates decided that we were better off telling them to stick that, and empowering the most right wing Tory party in our lifetimes to decide how our economy should be run. Because...well Christ knows to be honest.

Explain to me how this works pls BST. As a nation we were a net contributor to the EU. Why would money spent here be then from another country rather than simply our contribution back

Ldr

Experience of the past two generations of Tory Governments tells me that they choose not to spend UK money in South Yorkshire. If they did, we wouldn't be among the worst economically performing regions of Europe.

They had a chance to show us they were different with the Towns Fund before the last election. They chose to target that at marginal seats that they wanted to win, plus the seats of the two ministers who singed off the money, even though they didn't qualify.

The EU has a 60 year track record of supporting economically fragile regions and that has been a superb success story. It's based on a principle that a society where there are vast disparities of wealth and opportunity is not healthy, either socially, or, in the long run, economically. We in the UK have not had that sort of principle underpinning our policies for generations, especially under Tory Governments, which have seen the South East thrive and the North decay.

This Govt tells us they are different, but as I say, when they had the chance to demonstrate that...

Plus, there is the indisputable fact that the UK, outside the EU will be poorer as a whole and so have a smaller cake to divvy up. Again, over the long run, regions such as South Yorkshire would have benefited by direct transfer of the wealth of the successful regions of Europe (yes, including Guildford) to us. That will now not happen and we have to rely on a Tory Government to do it instead. I'm not holding my breath.

[Not Now Kato]

Tyke.

I recognise them 100%. I just disagree that taking a wrecking ball to the issue will help overall.

At base, if people are getting on economically, no-one really gives a shit about immigration. That is demonstrated throughout history. Anti-immigrant stances become prominent when people are struggling economically.

So to address an immigration issue by choosing to make ourselves markedly less wealthy for a generation, while in practice doing nothing to limit immigration is not a recipe for dealing with this issue. It is likely to make the resentment and anger far, far worse when people realise that they aren't getting the brighter future they were promised.

Billy

There is no economic benefit of membership of the EU for many of leave voters because it's a neoliberal and market led organisation .

Thatcher destroyed areas around here and Blair didn't do enough to improve things .

So they hang their hat on culture and their communities .

Multiculturalism is embraced by the graduate and big city metropolitan voter , they move around more , their jobs take them abroad etc ..... I get it .

However millions don't , they have low paid jobs and stay in the communities they were born in and make the best of that .

They don't want to see their communities change or their values challenged ...... mars and venus mate .

I firmly believe many are prepared to take the economic hit in return to live in communities they desire .

They have nowt anyway other than their family , community and their cultural values .

Colours well and truly nailed there, Tyke.  What bizarre logic you have.

I wonder what those people who voted to leave the EU because of 'multiculturism' think to 600000 Chinese people arriving in the UK in the next 2 years?

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2020/12/14/2003748697

Tell thi what Wilts .

Why don't you come up one day from Wiltshire and have a walk around that big estate at Rosso and tell em how good multiculturalism is .

Let me know how you go on .

Nah, the Mail and the Express can do that for them already....
 

 
 

 
 
I'm guessing you believe this shit too Tyke?

You guess ?

Of course you do .

Come to my doorstep with a red rosette on wanting my vote and throw this my way and I'll tell you this .

I'm more concerned about ZHC 's , the lack of affordable housing , in work poverty , foodbanks , the grug dealers across the road etc etc  and I'll say said person with red rosette on will look at their feet .

Do I care about migrants crossing the channel yes I do but in some kind of order I have to say .

Until some of your tribe except that localised issues are more important than solving the world's problems you are electorally irrelevant .

That's a solid fact by the way .

Tyke, I'm truly glad you care about zero hour contracts, lack of affordable housing,  in work poverty, the need for food banks and the menace of drug dealers; but none of those things are the result of globalisation and/or immigration.
 
The fault of all of those issues lies at the door of the right wing of this country, the Tory Party and the right wing media such as I have posted above, who's sole aim is to drag people by the nose into believing it's everyone else's,  (and particularly foreigners), fault. A tactic that was used in Germany with some, regrettable, success in the 1930's.
 
It's a tragedy that people  in this country haven't learned from that exercise; and a travesty that the right wing media are allowed to get away with such blatant and ill informed propaganda. Thank God the rest of Europe have. Whatever happened to education in this country?

[tyke1962]

Good ol' xenophobia, we got there in the end.

Thanks Glyn , I wouldn't have expected anything less from people such as yourself .

That's all I have , you ain't worth the bother , accept at the ballot box ....... you lose .

The ballot box is king pal .

Well, when every other reason is stripped away and this argument is all you're left  with, what do you expect others to think of you? The fact that it wins an election doesn't change its nature.

Because you don't see my issue and the first port of call is THAT CARD .

It's all you have , you don't see I have a problem with globalisation and it's effects on areas like I live in .

So out it comes , the card to end the debate .

It's actually you who are out of touch and stupid if the truth be told .

I'm not ending any debate, feel free to tell us which particular migrants you have a problem with and how Brexit will solve it for you.

I'm not anti immigration , I'm anti mass immigration , there's a huge difference and leaving the EU gives the UK that control .

Huge amounts of cheap eastern european Labour isn't something to celebrate .

I'm at a loss as to why Labour Party people would embrace it but then again if you sell your heart n soul for  free market economics for 13 years of power in return then you make your bed and have to lay in it .

The former red wall will now decide GE outcomes , from my point of you that ain't a bad thing .

In fact it's the best thing that could happen , no you won't take the vote for granted and give it there's no where else to go .

Actually that's proved to be not the case at the last election .

So you either get onside with the electorate in the former red wall or you lose .

There's very little to be gained by throwing your hands in the air at Johnson , the ERG etc when you are massively part of the problem .

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

I recognise them 100%. I just disagree that taking a wrecking ball to the issue will help overall.

At base, if people are getting on economically, no-one really gives a shit about immigration. That is demonstrated throughout history. Anti-immigrant stances become prominent when people are struggling economically.

So to address an immigration issue by choosing to make ourselves markedly less wealthy for a generation, while in practice doing nothing to limit immigration is not a recipe for dealing with this issue. It is likely to make the resentment and anger far, far worse when people realise that they aren't getting the brighter future they were promised.

Billy

There is no economic benefit of membership of the EU for many of leave voters because it's a neoliberal and market led organisation .

Thatcher destroyed areas around here and Blair didn't do enough to improve things .

So they hang their hat on culture and their communities .

Multiculturalism is embraced by the graduate and big city metropolitan voter , they move around more , their jobs take them abroad etc ..... I get it .

However millions don't , they have low paid jobs and stay in the communities they were born in and make the best of that .

They don't want to see their communities change or their values challenged ...... mars and venus mate .

I firmly believe many are prepared to take the economic hit in return to live in communities they desire .

They have nowt anyway other than their family , community and their cultural values .

Colours well and truly nailed there, Tyke.  What bizarre logic you have.

I wonder what those people who voted to leave the EU because of 'multiculturism' think to 600000 Chinese people arriving in the UK in the next 2 years?

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2020/12/14/2003748697

Tell thi what Wilts .

Why don't you come up one day from Wiltshire and have a walk around that big estate at Rosso and tell em how good multiculturalism is .

Let me know how you go on .

Nah, the Mail and the Express can do that for them already....
 

 
 

 
 
I'm guessing you believe this shit too Tyke?

You guess ?

Of course you do .

Come to my doorstep with a red rosette on wanting my vote and throw this my way and I'll tell you this .

I'm more concerned about ZHC 's , the lack of affordable housing , in work poverty , foodbanks , the grug dealers across the road etc etc  and I'll say said person with red rosette on will look at their feet .

Do I care about migrants crossing the channel yes I do but in some kind of order I have to say .

Until some of your tribe except that localised issues are more important than solving the world's problems you are electorally irrelevant .

That's a solid fact by the way .

Tyke, I'm truly glad you care about zero hour contracts, lack of affordable housing,  in work poverty, the need for food banks and the menace of drug dealers; but none of those things are the result of globalisation and/or immigration.
 
The fault of all of those issues lies at the door of the right wing of this country, the Tory Party and the right wing media such as I have posted above, who's sole aim is to drag people by the nose into believing it's everyone else's,  (and particularly foreigners), fault. A tactic that was used in Germany with some, regrettable, success in the 1930's.
 
It's a tragedy that people  in this country haven't learned from that exercise; and a travesty that the right wing media are allowed to get away with such blatant and ill informed propaganda. Thank God the rest of Europe have. Whatever happened to education in this country?

Why on earth are you choosing to die on a hill of right wing media and the tory party .

If you had a solid argument it would cut through right .

The same as it did in 1945 .

[SydneyRover]

How many neo-liberal and market-led organisations impose environmental and worker condition standards on companies? How many of them disburse billions of euros to economically disadvantaged areas?

If we had stayed in the EU, South Yorkshire would have been in line for €3.3bn of money from the EU over the next 7 years. Paid for by the tax payers of Milan, Frankfurt, Stockholm and Barcelona.

Unfortunately, Tyke and his mates decided that we were better off telling them to stick that, and empowering the most right wing Tory party in our lifetimes to decide how our economy should be run. Because...well Christ knows to be honest.

Billy have you ever tried looking at life without a monetary mandate ? .

You sound more like Thatcher every day .

There's no such thing as society ..... right !! .

You're not wrong at all Tyke, there is society but when you separate it from access to money then society breaks down, not money per se but the ability to feed, clothe and have a roof.

Look at the famine in Ireland where aound a million died and 2 million left. After ww2 a couple of million left Britain. People, not all of course but leave for more prosperous areas within and without the country to form and join new societies.

I'm not saying society will break down to that extent but over time people, younger people just get up and go.

Ok Sydney I'll take this on .

Your going back in time to when the world was a different place .

So I'll ask you this question .

A 21 year old lad who is unskilled and wants to better him self away from the UK economically where does he go  ?

If this thing is all things to all people meaning globalisation then it should be a very simple question to answer .

For a start if money had been spent across the UK in a fair manner there would be more opportunities in Sth Yks, but that doesn't stop young people from wanting to explore the world, many, as soon as they have their qualifications are off to find somewhere to use them. The EU as others say have ploughed money into the area, ask yourself why it was necessary. Look at Italy the villages in the hills are dying as the young move away it happens in Oz too not many really want to live the 'outback' life at all and until covid these places were dying too for the same reasons. In fact people that move to these areas to 'escape to the country' find it pretty hard going with the long term residents not wanting these 'new fangled friends'

Where does that 21 year old person go in the UK Tyke, into a zero hours contract? a better question would be why wasn't that 21 year old given every opportunity to skill up, johnson would be the person to answer that one.

[selby]

  Syd,Kato and most of the rest, if the rest of the left and union members had done the right thing and backed people like Tyke who took on the establishment and were dismissed publicly by Kinnock and the labour party and others who thought I am all right jack in their cushy numbers things might be different now.
  You were told at the time its your turn next, well enjoy the trip.

[Not Now Kato]

Tyke.

I recognise them 100%. I just disagree that taking a wrecking ball to the issue will help overall.

At base, if people are getting on economically, no-one really gives a shit about immigration. That is demonstrated throughout history. Anti-immigrant stances become prominent when people are struggling economically.

So to address an immigration issue by choosing to make ourselves markedly less wealthy for a generation, while in practice doing nothing to limit immigration is not a recipe for dealing with this issue. It is likely to make the resentment and anger far, far worse when people realise that they aren't getting the brighter future they were promised.

Billy

There is no economic benefit of membership of the EU for many of leave voters because it's a neoliberal and market led organisation .

Thatcher destroyed areas around here and Blair didn't do enough to improve things .

So they hang their hat on culture and their communities .

Multiculturalism is embraced by the graduate and big city metropolitan voter , they move around more , their jobs take them abroad etc ..... I get it .

However millions don't , they have low paid jobs and stay in the communities they were born in and make the best of that .

They don't want to see their communities change or their values challenged ...... mars and venus mate .

I firmly believe many are prepared to take the economic hit in return to live in communities they desire .

They have nowt anyway other than their family , community and their cultural values .

Colours well and truly nailed there, Tyke.  What bizarre logic you have.

I wonder what those people who voted to leave the EU because of 'multiculturism' think to 600000 Chinese people arriving in the UK in the next 2 years?

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2020/12/14/2003748697

Tell thi what Wilts .

Why don't you come up one day from Wiltshire and have a walk around that big estate at Rosso and tell em how good multiculturalism is .

Let me know how you go on .

Nah, the Mail and the Express can do that for them already....
 

 
 

 
 
I'm guessing you believe this shit too Tyke?

You guess ?

Of course you do .

Come to my doorstep with a red rosette on wanting my vote and throw this my way and I'll tell you this .

I'm more concerned about ZHC 's , the lack of affordable housing , in work poverty , foodbanks , the grug dealers across the road etc etc  and I'll say said person with red rosette on will look at their feet .

Do I care about migrants crossing the channel yes I do but in some kind of order I have to say .

Until some of your tribe except that localised issues are more important than solving the world's problems you are electorally irrelevant .

That's a solid fact by the way .

Tyke, I'm truly glad you care about zero hour contracts, lack of affordable housing,  in work poverty, the need for food banks and the menace of drug dealers; but none of those things are the result of globalisation and/or immigration.
 
The fault of all of those issues lies at the door of the right wing of this country, the Tory Party and the right wing media such as I have posted above, who's sole aim is to drag people by the nose into believing it's everyone else's,  (and particularly foreigners), fault. A tactic that was used in Germany with some, regrettable, success in the 1930's.
 
It's a tragedy that people  in this country haven't learned from that exercise; and a travesty that the right wing media are allowed to get away with such blatant and ill informed propaganda. Thank God the rest of Europe have. Whatever happened to education in this country?

Why on earth are you choosing to die on a hill of right wing media and the tory party .

If you had a solid argument it would cut through right .

The same as it did in 1945 .

If anyone is dying on the hill of right wing media and the Tory party it's you Tyke.
 
Form your own words

I'm not anti immigration , I'm anti mass immigration , there's a huge difference and leaving the EU gives the UK that control .

So where do you get the 'mass immigration' bit from?  The only time I've seen it mentioned anywhere is in the likes of the Mail, Express, Sun etc - you know, the right wing media.  And from the mouths of Tory politicians when being interviewed on TV and in rally propaganda.  And let's not forget all the media exposure given to Farage to peddle his hatred of foreigners.  Here's on of his favourites just to remind you....
 


 
And as for controlling our borders, we always could, we didn't have to leave the EU to be able to do that - but again you fell for the propaganda of the right.  And you accuse me of dying on the hill of the right!
 
Sheesh!

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

How many neo-liberal and market-led organisations impose environmental and worker condition standards on companies? How many of them disburse billions of euros to economically disadvantaged areas?

If we had stayed in the EU, South Yorkshire would have been in line for €3.3bn of money from the EU over the next 7 years. Paid for by the tax payers of Milan, Frankfurt, Stockholm and Barcelona.

Unfortunately, Tyke and his mates decided that we were better off telling them to stick that, and empowering the most right wing Tory party in our lifetimes to decide how our economy should be run. Because...well Christ knows to be honest.

Billy have you ever tried looking at life without a monetary mandate ? .

You sound more like Thatcher every day .

There's no such thing as society ..... right !! .

You're not wrong at all Tyke, there is society but when you separate it from access to money then society breaks down, not money per se but the ability to feed, clothe and have a roof.

Look at the famine in Ireland where aound a million died and 2 million left. After ww2 a couple of million left Britain. People, not all of course but leave for more prosperous areas within and without the country to form and join new societies.

I'm not saying society will break down to that extent but over time people, younger people just get up and go.

Ok Sydney I'll take this on .

Your going back in time to when the world was a different place .

So I'll ask you this question .

A 21 year old lad who is unskilled and wants to better him self away from the UK economically where does he go  ?

If this thing is all things to all people meaning globalisation then it should be a very simple question to answer .

For a start if money had been spent across the UK in a fair manner there would be more opportunities in Sth Yks, but that doesn't stop young people from wanting to explore the world, many, as soon as they have their qualifications are off to find somewhere to use them. The EU as others say have ploughed money into the area, ask yourself why it was necessary. Look at Italy the villages in the hills are dying as the young move away it happens in Oz too not many really want to live the 'outback' life at all and until covid these places were dying too for the same reasons. In fact people that move to these areas to 'escape to the country' find it pretty hard going with the long term residents not wanting these 'new fangled friends'

Where does that 21 year old person go in the UK Tyke, into a zero hours contract? a better question would be why wasn't that 21 year old given every opportunity to skill up, johnson would be the person to answer that one.

It's the same across the world though isn't it? Young people with aspirations is a great thing, accomodating that is hard.  Neither me or my wife have ever worked in Doncaster in our professional lives, it's a shame but how the area is.

But other countries are the same. I've had many colleagues who work in the UK from.abroad because the jobs aren't there, these being from all over the world from Europe to Asia, new Zealand etc.  Perhaps remote working will empower a better balance and spread professional wealth a little better?

I graduated one week after the coalition government was formed in 2010. Next to no jobs, nothing local and again I had to leave Doncaster for opportunities. It's not a new thing and little to me has changed. So all that EU money, has it achieved the right things?

[Donnywolf]

Probably the Farage one was taken at a Test Match given the circular nature of the grass to the left anyway

Despicableme (him that is)

[Not Now Kato]

[Not Now Kato]

Probably the Farage one was taken at a Test Match given the circular nature of the grass to the left anyway

Despicableme (him that is)

I do believe that Farage & the leave campaigns got the idea from something the National Socialist party in Germany used just before WW2.