No Brexit Extension

[Ldr]

No I find several phases you like to use patronizing and condescending. "Stop and think", "let that sink in" "agreed?". You over and over again insinuate to people their opinions are invalid as you suggest they haven't thought about them. I find that disrespectful and a sign of your superiority complex, whether conscious or not. Therefore I choose to engage with others who can discuss in a civil manner, NNK in this instance

[BillyStubbsTears]

Your call. I use those terms to emphasise points. When I find some information that shocks or surprises me, *I* stop and think and let it sink in.

When I'm making a complicated case, I think it makes sense to stop and agree the logical steps.

If you don't like that, it is entirely your choice not to engage.

[Not Now Kato]

Big H, not getting into a lather at all, Kato asked a sensible question for people to give him reasons why we should be better coming out of the EU, he claims people have ignored his question and have no answers, I am giving my  answers. backed by the reasons why, which are even greater reasons to avoid being kidded on to remain entrapped after the end of this year due to the mountain of debt the current situation has and will in the near future overtake the EU's economic system.

selby, you've speculated as to what you believe will happen within and to the EU. You may well be right, but then again, you may well be wrong.  That's the problem with speculation and best guesses - as you'll know from your own financial speculations.
 
The question I asked, having shown all the things we gained through membership, was for someone to show me just one way that the people of the UK WILL, (and that word is important because it does not rely on speculation), so I'll repeat, 'WILL' be better off outside of the EU.

We wont be part of a federal europe.

And how WILL that make people in the UK better off?
 
I get that there are parts of the EU that some people don't like, but making ourselves worse off by walking away from something that has the significant benefits I've listed is somewhat akin to cutting ones nose off to spite ones face.

In your opinion, some are happy to sell their souls for a piece of silver. I am not

So, you'd rather the country be poorer than be part of something beneficial? And for what? Sovereignty?  That ship sailed many moons ago.

Sovereignty no, not the best way to put it. It felt wrong to me to be heading towards a federal state. If post 1992 eu hadn't happened and we had stayed EEC then my vote would have been remain. Like I say, some things to me are more important than silver

Perhaps you could explain that to someone on the breadline who will be significantly worse off if we fail to agree a trade deal with the EU - which is looking ever more likely by the day!

I vote for what is best for me, not others as we all do. I am only responsible for my family, not yours or others

And that is a classic example of everything that is wrong in this country.  The ME ME ME attitude and stuff everybody else!
 
To say that we all do is beneath contempt and I would have expected better.

I'm honest enough to admit how my thought processes work. I dont wish any I'll on you or anyone else NNK but I honestly dont care, my responsibility is to do what I think is best for my son. Whether you disagree with that is up to you, again what you or others think isn't my concern

I appreciate your honesty Ldr, though I find it hard to understand how you voted was in the best interests of yourself and, particularly, your Son.
 
Do you believe that we would have achieved all those things I listed if we had not been members of the EU?  And, more importantly, do you believe we will retain all of them now we have left the EU, (a number of them have already gone!)?
 
I have no idea how old your Son is, but I have two young grandchildren; both of whom have lost the benefit to travel freely, to work freely, to be educated freely and to live freely anywhere in the EU.  Maybe you don't think that those losses are important to your Son, but others do to their children and grandchildren.  And what does/will your Son feel about that in later years when he sees the opportunities being denied to him?
 
It isn't all about 30 pieces of silver, as you put it, the benefits of membership of the EU have been far greater than that; and I see very few downsides that couldn't have been addressed by our continued membership.
 
But we are where we are, and I fear the trade deal currently being negotiated will only make things worse, not better.  Particularly when our lying Prime Minister is looking to shift the blame for what he obviously know what is to come to anyone and everyone, even though much if not all of what will happen is down to him.  I wonder how many people will continue to fall for his lies when even the right wing Express are exposing him for what he is....
 
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1292372/Brexit-latest-boris-johnson-trade-talks-brussels-news
 
Watch the video and then remind me, who's withdrawal agreement was approved by Parliament!

[SydneyRover]

Yep, he signed the doc, boasted about the doc and is now whining about it not being fair?

'Fantastic moment': Boris Johnson signs Brexit withdrawal deal

Prime minister says signing of document will end years of argument and division

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/24/sombre-eu-leaders-sign-brexit-withdrawal-agreement

[Glyn_Wigley]

Jeez, that express article has this gem in the middle of it "The frustration appeared to get to Mr Barnier on Friday when he attacked Britain and accused it of not wanting to fulfil its commitments in the Withdrawal Agreement.", when the whole thrust of the entire article is about...Britain not wanting to fulfil its commitments in the Withdrawal Agreement, by wanting to change it unilaterally.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Barnier must be at the end of his tether. How on earth do you negotiate with people who refuse to accept what they have previously agreed and signed?

Did you see his press conference last week? He said that Britain was consistently arguing against what it had agreed in the Political Declaration in October. He held up a copy and said, "It's available in several languages. Including English."

[Glyn_Wigley]

It's makes you wonder if anything signed by Johnson is worth the paper it's written on.

[SydneyRover]

You wouldn't want him working in the BoE then?

[Glyn_Wigley]

You wouldn't want him working in the BoE then?

I'm sure they could always use a good toilet cleaner.

[SydneyRover]

spot on he has a head for it

[Not Now Kato]

Meanwhile, the EU completes another important trade deal to which we would have benefited....
 
https://www.dw.com/en/vietnam-ratifies-major-trade-deal-with-the-eu/a-53724548?fbclid=IwAR3bCKApFoI8y0StB7o23EiUdIDy9qiPzPvVMpZ-3anqt6Lk-YYeQbFP_x0
 
And it's been in progress since 2012 which give some idea of the work the UK will have to do to compete - and that while we're negotiating all the other trade deals we will need.  Nah, it will be easier to just go to WTO rules with all the issues that will involve, after all, that's what leavers voted for wasn't it?

[DonnyOsmond]

Remember when Leavers voted for Norway++ then Canada++. Ahh. Simpler times.

[SydneyRover]

I wonder if the Socialist Republic of Vietnam (commies) are sponsoring the tory party too 

[selby]

Barnier's own words on the deal,
    The Withdrawal Agreement no longer includes The Custom Union as a default basis for the future UK-EU relationship that was included in the backstop.
   The future UK-Eu relationship is only addressed in the NON BINDING Political Declaration which points to a Free Trade agreement rather than a Customs Union but this is a matter that will remain open to negotiation in the Transition period presumably after a UK general election.
  Consequently the level playing field obligations that accompanied the proposed UK-EU customs union under the backstop have been removed in the revised Withdrawal Agreement to the Political Declaration as an issue for further negotiation in the context of the future UK-EU relationship.
  Therefore,
   The  potential UK-EU  relationship is only addressed in the NON-BINDING Political Declaration
   The level playing field obligations that accompanied the  proposed UK-EU Customs Union under the Backstop have been removed to the revised Withdrawal Agreement and to the Political Declaration  as an issue  for further negotiation in the context of the UK-EU relationship.

  The UK point blank refused to sign a binding withdrawal agreement with a level playing field provisions.
  The Political Agreement is not Binding, the Political Declaration only set out the framework for a future  relationship for discussion and negotiations.
  My feeling is that the UK and EU  will come to an agreement and will agree a level playing field provisions but the landing zone  will be non regression by the UK it will not be the UK signing any future EU rules unless it chooses to do so.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Barnier's own words on the deal,

No they're not.

[Not Now Kato]

Barnier's own words on the deal,

No they're not.

You couldn't make it up!  Well, selby and, (probably), the Daily Mail could!!!!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Barnier's own words on the deal,

No they're not.

You couldn't make it up!  Well, selby and, (probably), the Daily Mail could!!!!

He didn't make them up. They appear on a website that he didn't read properly.

It makes you wonder if all the other uncredited cut'n'pasted stuff is as sloppy as this.

[Donnywolf]

Copied from BBC this morning

The government is expected to formally confirm soon it will not ask for an extension to the transition period - despite the coronavirus crisis.

However, there will be an about turn, in the short term at least, on the checks carried out on imports.

In February, Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove said import controls were "necessary" to keep the country's borders "safe and secure" and to collect the appropriate taxes.

Now a "temporary light-touch regime" is planned at UK ports such as Dover, regardless of whether a deal is done with the EU or not, according to the Financial Times.

[drfchound]

Yep Wolfie, smuggling is likely to increase.
I think that leave voters will still say that Brexit is a good idea.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The line from inside Govt appears to be that they can hide the economic damage of a No Deal outcome under the CoVid carnage.

I'm just speechless. This is like surgeons who have had to amputate both of a patients legs choosing to amputate a perfectly good arm as well on the grounds that the patient wouldn't notice.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The line from inside Govt appears to be that they can hide the economic damage of a No Deal outcome under the CoVid carnage.

I'm just speechless. This is like surgeons who have had to amputate both of a patients legs choosing to amputate a perfectly good arm as well on the grounds that the patient wouldn't notice.

And completely fail to notice that he's had his knackers whipped off in the confusion.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Yep Wolfie, smuggling is likely to increase.
I think that leave voters will still say that Brexit is a good idea.

The Irish border is going to be a smugglers' paradise.

Mind you, I've not heard anything about what is going to happen to the Irish border after the end of the transition period lately. Has anybody? It's almost as though they think the public will have forgotten about it by December...

[selby]

  Glyn, why do you think the Irish  wanted to keep no border, it was already a smuggler's paradise, or do you think Paddy McGinty comes over here just for the tarmac season and to plonk his arse on someones front lawn.

[Glyn_Wigley]

  Glyn, why do you think the Irish  wanted to keep no border, it was already a smuggler's paradise, or do you think Paddy McGinty comes over here just for the tarmac season and to plonk his arse on someones front lawn.

F**k me, how can you smuggle something over a border that's not there?? Are you really this thick or is this a very feeble attempt to take the piss?

PS Nothing to say about you claiming Barnier said something a Brexit think-tank actually said at all? You seem to have gone very quiet in this thread about it since you were exposed.

[wilts rover]

Yep Wolfie, smuggling is likely to increase.
I think that leave voters will still say that Brexit is a good idea.

The Irish border is going to be a smugglers' paradise.

Mind you, I've not heard anything about what is going to happen to the Irish border after the end of the transition period lately. Has anybody? It's almost as though they think the public will have forgotten about it by December...

The government confirmed last month that there will be controls on the UK/Ireland border after Brexit - despite Johnson's assurances in the GE campaign.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/thenorth/boris-brexit-border-controls-northern-ireland

They are arguing at the moment about whether or not the EU can have an office in NI to check these controls are being carried out

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/02/row-over-eu-office-in-belfast-threatens-to-derail-brexit-talks

Still no problems here.

Johnson said he could get his half-baked, oven ready deal sorted by December and I don't see any reason to doubt him.

I would like a bit of detail about what the Brexiteers would like to see in it, but maybe that's just me.

[selby]

 Having another bad losers day there Glynn?  put your crayons and beads away buddy and try to get to sleep.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Having another bad losers day there Glynn?  put your crayons and beads away buddy and try to get to sleep.

So it's the feeble attempt to take the piss option them.

Unless you can tell all the nice ladies and gentlemen exactly how you can smuggle anything across a border that's not been there for the past 28 years. Not that I'd hold my breath waiting for a coherent answer.

[selby]

Well Glynn, one step at  a time. The drugs are smuggled into Eire.  and go straight into the UK over an open border.
  The relatively long sparsely populated  Atlantic coastline of Eire is particularly attractive to gun runners etc. that have used that route for years and the free movement is no hindrance at all. Sinn Fein and the IRA  could probably be better at explaining it to you. Think about it when you are adding those votes up against the leave vote.
  Now try to get some sleep.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well Glynn, one step at  a time. The drugs are smuggled into Eire.  and go straight into the UK over an open border.
  The relatively long sparsely populated  Atlantic coastline of Eire is particularly attractive to gun runners etc. that have used that route for years and the free movement is no hindrance at all.

Well selby, Iin your example, Eire is where the Customs Border is and where the smuggling takes place when entering Eire from outside the EU. You can only smuggle when crossing a Customs Border. There is no Customs Border between Eire and the UK. If you transport illegal drugs from Eire to the UK, you are guilty of possession of a prohibited or restricted Class A/B/C drugs. But not guilty of smuggling. Smuggling is a specific crime, not just whatever you like to think it is.

Clear now? Good.

[selby]

go to bed, it has been a hard day for you.