Labour split

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Looks to finally happen today. Could be a winner if they get it right with so many feeling a bit stuck in limbo on who to support.

[auckleyflyer]

Hope they pick up a few normal central Tories then could be a real force.
What lib Dems should be with a shit storm to the left and right??!

[Filo]

I think they have just handed the ERG a free hit

[Ldr]

Momentum have made the Labour party toxic

[DonnyOsmond]

Interesting. Will hopefully seen some from the other parties move over.

[MachoMadness]

Aaaaand it's done. https://twitter.com/MikeSegalov/status/1097487967730483201

[Herbert Anchovy]

Traitors

[Glyn_Wigley]

Traitors

Why could they possibly have wanted to leave the Labour Party when there it abounds with such generosity of spirit?

[Herbert Anchovy]

Traitors

Why could they possibly have wanted to leave the Labour Party when there it abounds with such generosity of spirit?

Glynn,

Are you really so naive? They’ve stuck 2 fingers up at the Labour Party and to the electorate who voted for them on a Labour manifesto.  Do they deserve “generosity of spirit”?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Traitors

Why could they possibly have wanted to leave the Labour Party when there it abounds with such generosity of spirit?

Glynn,

Are you really so naive? They’ve stuck 2 fingers up at the Labour Party and to the electorate who voted for them on a Labour manifesto.  Do they deserve “generosity of spirit”?

You'd rather they'd have stayed then, would you?

They say they've left Labour exactly because of the sort of behaviour you're displaying. You're doing their justification for them.

PS Their constituents voted for them. They've still got them.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Traitors

Why could they possibly have wanted to leave the Labour Party when there it abounds with such generosity of spirit?

Glynn,

Are you really so naive? They’ve stuck 2 fingers up at the Labour Party and to the electorate who voted for them on a Labour manifesto.  Do they deserve “generosity of spirit”?

You'd rather they'd have stayed then, would you?

They say they've left Labour exactly because of the sort of behaviour you're displaying. You're doing their justification for them.

PS Their constituents voted for them. They've still got them.

You’re totally wrong. I’d have rather they have left the party and called a by election. To just say their constituents voted for them is silly. Constituents vote for them to implement the party manifesto if elected to government.

[wing commander]

   It was no surprise but is this the first step of a new political map??,it was always coming this, and with rumours abound that Labour are planning to deselect a lot of mp's who are not left wing enough there may be more yet who jump ship..Of course brexit is again the sticking point for some as they are united on a peoples vote..Which will be at odds with other Labour mp's views..
   However once again Labour are managing to damage there own party,the publics view of Corbyn isn't great as it is but when his own MP's start resigning the party whip because they don't recognise the party they joined then that's not good for future prospects
   Of course it remains to be seen if any Tories resign and join them,but if they were going to then I suspect they would have today for maximum impact...Will be interesting to read what BST makes of today's developments...

[Glyn_Wigley]

Traitors

Why could they possibly have wanted to leave the Labour Party when there it abounds with such generosity of spirit?

Glynn,

Are you really so naive? They’ve stuck 2 fingers up at the Labour Party and to the electorate who voted for them on a Labour manifesto.  Do they deserve “generosity of spirit”?

You'd rather they'd have stayed then, would you?

They say they've left Labour exactly because of the sort of behaviour you're displaying. You're doing their justification for them.

PS Their constituents voted for them. They've still got them.

You’re totally wrong. I’d have rather they have left the party and called a by election. To just say their constituents voted for them is silly. Constituents vote for them to implement the party manifesto if elected to government.

MPs are elected personally. Their choice of party affiliation is secondary. It's still only very recently that party names were even put on the voting slips. That's how British politics works, I'm afraid. Just because a lot of people don't understand that and think something else doesn't make the something else the truth.

What happens when a party changes policy between elections? That would then mean that all their MPs would then not be representing the manifesto they were elected on and therefore 'betraying' their constituents. Presumably you'd expect all of their MPs to have bye-elections and get a new mandate to reflect the change of policy..?

For example - if a Labour MP won his seat at the 1983 election on that election's manifesto of unilateral nuclear disarmament that he so passionately believed in that when that policy was ditched under Kinnock he resigned from the party on principle...according to you he should have a bye-election even though he's still maintaining the policy he was elected on and the rest of the Labour MPs who have 'betrayed' their constituents shouldn't have to!

[Ldr]

Glyn, I agree with you. Need to lie down now!

[wesisback]

It's a weird one as I have slightly more respect for these seven than the likes of Caroline Flint and Ian Austin who share the same views but haven't left as they know it would be the end of them politically as will be the case for this lot.
No socialists were lost from the Labour Party today.

[Sprotyrover]

Traitors

Why could they possibly have wanted to leave the Labour Party when there it abounds with such generosity of spirit?

Glynn,

Are you really so naive? They’ve stuck 2 fingers up at the Labour Party and to the electorate who voted for them on a Labour manifesto.  Do they deserve “generosity of spirit”?

You'd rather they'd have stayed then, would you?

They say they've left Labour exactly because of the sort of behaviour you're displaying. You're doing their justification for them.

PS Their constituents voted for them. They've still got them.

Traitors

Why could they possibly have wanted to leave the Labour Party when there it abounds with such generosity of spirit?

Glynn,

Are you really so naive? They’ve stuck 2 fingers up at the Labour Party and to the electorate who voted for them on a Labour manifesto.  Do they deserve “generosity of spirit”?

You'd rather they'd have stayed then, would you?

They say they've left Labour exactly because of the sort of behaviour you're displaying. You're doing their justification for them.

PS Their constituents voted for them. They've still got them.

You’re totally wrong. I’d have rather they have left the party and called a by election. To just say their constituents voted for them is silly. Constituents vote for them to implement the party manifesto if elected to government.

MPs are elected personally. Their choice of party affiliation is secondary. It's still only very recently that party names were even put on the voting slips. That's how British politics works, I'm afraid. Just because a lot of people don't understand that and think something else doesn't make the something else the truth.

What happens when a party changes policy between elections? That would then mean that all their MPs would then not be representing the manifesto they were elected on and therefore 'betraying' their constituents. Presumably you'd expect all of their MPs to have bye-elections and get a new mandate to reflect the change of policy..?

For example - if a Labour MP won his seat at the 1983 election on that election's manifesto of unilateral nuclear disarmament that he so passionately believed in that when that policy was ditched under Kinnock he resigned from the party on principle...according to you he should have a bye-election even though he's still maintaining the policy he was elected on and the rest of the Labour MPs who have 'betrayed' their constituents shouldn't have to!

I agree with Glynn, what is really disconcerting about all of this is that There is clearly an agenda from the extreme left to deselect all of the middle of the road favouring the left MP's and replace them with Extremists.
Not very good for Politics as there will Be no credible alternative to the Toriies for many years, unless
we go the way of Germany and have Coaltion Governments.

[DonnyOsmond]

It's a weird one as I have slightly more respect for these seven than the likes of Caroline Flint and Ian Austin who share the same views but haven't left as they know it would be the end of them politically as will be the case for this lot.
No socialists were lost from the Labour Party today.

I don't respect Flint. If she cared about her constituency she'd get in a party that's pro-EU. Otherwise this regions f*cked.

[Sprotyrover]

How many more Labour MP's are about to jump ship? I am going for 150 Ish !

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

None I suspect.

[albie]

There might be a few more, but it has only been a question of when, not if.

These 7 have been chuntering away below the waterline for some time.
Why they were Labour MP's in the first place is a mystery!

They were elected to the HoC on the Labour manifesto at the last election. Now it appears that they were only paying lip service to those policies.

For a comment on the perspectives of the 7, see this blog:
https://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/2019/02/what-you-need-to-know-about-seven.html

Why they think sitting as Independents in the current HoC is better than joining the Lib-Dems as a centre party is unclear.

Remember the SDP?

[Sprotyrover]

Their motives...Get rid of Corbyn,abbot, Mcdonnel and Momentum and get the Labour Party stable and re electable.

[bobjimwilly]

Which of Corbyns policies are so extreme to some people?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Which of Corbyns policies are so extreme to some people?

In a lot of ways it's not his policies but his attitude, style of leadership and making wrong choices at the wrong times.  He set himself up with the new politics mantra but didn't follow through with it.  He's an opportunist in some ways and people are seeing through that.  Good campaigner, but still not a great leader.

Also I'm sick of this broad church malarky, the labour party is not that right now, just look how quickly they turn on people (often in their own party) with opposing views.

There's a few of his policies I personally don't like but wouldn't call them extreme either.

[wing commander]

Their motives...Get rid of Corbyn,abbot, Mcdonnel and Momentum and get the Labour Party stable and re electable.

This This and this...Those of you who think we will see a Labour government with those people in charge are away with the fairies..Unelectable..

[bobjimwilly]

McDonnell would be more electable than Corbyn and would still deliver on the manifesto.

Abbot, unfortunately, has been attacked so much by the media that people do believe the craziest shit about her. Lies about "she can't count" etc are so petty, but it's the political climate we live in these days; more and more it's about image than what you have done, what you stand for and what your policies are.

[ravenrover]

She's not helped herself though in the past

[Ldr]

It's the whole toxic atmosphere that has been cultivated by momentum particularly. The pack mentality of attacking dissenters. It's not a party I could vote for as a floater due to that (not that I could vote for any of them atm)

[wing commander]

McDonnell would be more electable than Corbyn and would still deliver on the manifesto.

Abbot, unfortunately, has been attacked so much by the media that people do believe the craziest shit about her. Lies about "she can't count" etc are so petty, but it's the political climate we live in these days; more and more it's about image than what you have done, what you stand for and what your policies are.

I'm sorry but if there's one person less unelectable than Corbyn it's McDonnell..The party membership would love him though because he's even more left wing than Corbyn..But the party membership are not in tune with the voters..The only way you will see a Labour government is with a centre left leader,then they might pull themselves out of the mire..

[BillyStubbsTears]

Which of Corbyns policies are so extreme to some people?

Chris Leslie hit the nail on the head yesterday. He said something that I've been saying for the past 3 years.

He said that he had no issue with Corbyn's domestic policy. The issue was Corbyn's and Corbyn's inner circle's approach to foreign policy

Leslie got it bang on. Corby, Milne, McCluskey and a few others are steeped in an infantile black and white Marxist critique which I know well, because I shared it in the 80s before I grew up. It says that the world is divided into Aggressors and Victims. The Stronger and the Weaker. And it is your duty, always and everywhere to support the Weaker over the Stronger.

That is why you never, ever hear Corbyn directly criticise Putin. Or Hamas. Or Maduro.

Whereas the record is replete with Corbyn criticising Washington, NATO, the EU and Israel.

It's why Putin and Assad could freely gas civilians without a single word of direct criticism from Corbyn.

 It's why Corbyn's response to Russian Intelligence officers using g nerve poison to try to assassinate people in Britain was that we shouldn't rush to judgement and we should send samples to Russia to let them investigate what had happened.

It's why Labour has been mired in the anti-Semitism issue, encouraged by a leader who has openly praised anti-Semitic art works and who refused for months to accept an entirely reasonable definition of anti-Semitism.

It's why Corbyn has been a supporter of Brexiters from day one, because his ideological world view is that a group of economically string capitalist economies are on the wrong side.

It is a stupidly naive, ideologically rigid and frankly, dangerous way to address complex problems. Labour will never be elected to power with a leader who views foreign policy through that lens.

But watch as Landsman and his mob go into overdrive painting anyone who dares criticise Corbyn as a secret Tory.

[bobjimwilly]

I'd like a centre left leader to take the reins if that's what makes the party more electable, as long as they keep the majority of socialist domestic policies outlined in the manifest and don't go back on increasing taxes for the rich and corporate world etc.