Julian Assange

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well this is going to be fun.

[idler]

At least it will free up some of the Met Police budget.

[Colemans Left Hook]

err anyone heard of the statute of limitations

[SydneyRover]

If this had happened to a journalist from any major news organization there would have been an outcry. Imagine the furore if it had been a Murdoch journo?

[afro goal machine]

He looks as if he's in 80s being dragged out the embassy 😂

[Glyn_Wigley]

err anyone heard of the statute of limitations

So what? They don't apply in the UK.

[Glyn_Wigley]

If this had happened to a journalist from any major news organization there would have been an outcry. Imagine the furore if it had been a Murdoch journo?

If what had happened? Being found guilty of bailskipping, or being subject to the same rules of extradition that apply to everybody else?

[scawsby steve]

He looks as if he's in 80s being dragged out the embassy 😂

I thought the same Afro; he looked like a smart young bloke when he went in 7 years ago; today he looked old and haggard.

[albie]

I thought he failed to answer bail on charges subsequently dropped by Sweden for lack of evidence.

If that is correct, then extradition to the US on that basis would be highly dubious.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The interesting aspect is that he's wanted in the USA for criminal activity in hacking state secrets.

But...Wikileaks was also the conduit through which Russia released the stolen e-mails from the Democrats which won the Presidency for Trump. And there's a good deal of evidence that a certain well-known UK figure acted as a go-between between Assange and the Trump campaign to facilitate that.

Interesting times...

[Glyn_Wigley]

I thought he failed to answer bail on charges subsequently dropped by Sweden for lack of evidence.

If that is correct, then extradition to the US on that basis would be highly dubious.

The crime of failure to appear is against UK law thougm, so still stands regardless of the the outcome of the case he failed to appear for.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well Jeremy's decided which side of the argument he is on.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1116424423953903616

Here's a thing though. Oddly, Wikileaks has never found and published anything about Russia's actions in Aleppo. Or anything about the million Uigurs in Chinese concentration camps.

[SydneyRover]

If this had happened to a journalist from any major news organization there would have been an outcry. Imagine the furore if it had been a Murdoch journo?

If what had happened? Being found guilty of bailskipping, or being subject to the same rules of extradition that apply to everybody else?

He's a whistle blower that exposed the American forces in Iraq murdering unarmed civilians, followed by trumped up charges in Sweden and the UK sucking the dick of the US because of the ''special relationship'' this is more of a conspiracy of international countries wanting to hide their dirty secrets more than anything else.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes Sydney. He's a whistleblower who wants the world to be a better plavvçe.

But he has never exposed a secret that is embarrassing to Putin.

[albie]

BST,

The Mueller investigation into the US 2016 election decided not to bring charges against WikiLeaks.
That is a dead as a Dodo.

Very thin legal grounds for extradition to the US on the basis of what is currently known.

It seems that extradition is sought by the US for allegedly commissioning criminal acts in the US.
Namely the obtaining of classified information about US activities (some of these US activities were unlawful) via Chelsea Manning.

If Manning obtained this information independently, and then simply passed it to Assange, there is no case to answer.
Any case will hinge upon Assange having instructed and assisted Manning to act unlawfully.

If the alleged criminal activity took place from within Europe, rather than within the US, then there is no clear reason why extradition to the US should proceed.

Should Assange be found guilty, any publisher of material obtained from third parties would be vulnerable to a similar charge.
News organisations which reported on the contents of the WikiLeaks disclosures would also be in the frame.

Journalism is under threat here.

[Colemans Left Hook]

If this had happened to a journalist from any major news organization there would have been an outcry. Imagine the furore if it had been a Murdoch journo?

If what had happened? Being found guilty of bailskipping, or being subject to the same rules of extradition that apply to everybody else?

on that point

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2163436/Seven-Britons-extradited-US-sent-lopsided-act.html

[Colemans Left Hook]

now we need to know some background

this was ecuador in 2013

https://moneyweek.com/87166/new-world-why-you-should-be-getting-excited-about-ecuador-62904/

now read  about Lenin Moreno here (no relation to José Mourinho) and you'll see what "rewards "...  Ecuador will get by literally "QUITOing" him from the embassy .

could call ie Quexit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Len%C3%ADn_Moreno#Background

ironically the bloke was nominated for a Nobel peace prize in 2012

Now guess what happened on March 26th this year

"Corruption investigation opened against Ecuador's president Moreno, after purported leaked contents of his iPhone (Whatsapp, Telegram) & Gmail were published. New York Times reported that Moreno tried to sell Assange to US for debt relief. http://inapapers.org"

https://defend.wikileaks.org/2019/04/03/ecuador-twists-embarrassing-ina-papers-into-pretext-to-oust-assange/

[silent majority]

It seems the rape charge wasn't dropped in Sweden, it was 'set aside' because of his unavailability. I'd expect that to have priority over other charges.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie
I haven't said that there was a crime committed by Wikileaks regarding the 2016 e-mails.

What I AM saying is that Assange is, in effect, a Russian operative. He acts in the interests of Russian foreign policy, not as a white knight on a steed bringing Truth and Justice to the world. He funnels what is Russian propaganda into the public domain. And because that primarily damages America and the West, there's a seam of useful idiots on the Left who view him as a hero.

If Wikileaks were a non-political organisation, truly dedicated to uncovering and publicising secrets with no consideration of whose they were, or who they embarrassed, it is inconceivable that they wouldn't have turned up something on Trump. Or on Putin's personal wealth. Or on the bestial war crimes committed by Russia in Grozny and Aleppo, which make anything the West did in Iraq look like a Sunday School outing. Or on China's incarceration and "political re-education" of a million Uigurs.

Yet...nothing. Not a whisper.

It takes a certain form of gullibility not to see the agenda here.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And of course, our old friend Nigel popped in to have tea and biscuits with Assange a couple of years back.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/marieleconte/wait-what?utm_term=.utWP6KqWJV#.kdJO1g28N9

[BillyStubbsTears]

Rigo
I'm struggling to choose which of the lessons from Russia we should learn.

Should we have a socio-economic system that results in a male life expectancy of 65, like Russia?

Should we have a military policy that ignores international law and simply carpet bombs cities where hundreds of thousands of civilians?

Should we have a political system where the leader is surrounded by a cabal of gangster kleptocrats and can amass a personal fortune estimated at $200bn?

Should we have a legal system where opposition politicians who make too much of an impression are routinely jailed and banned from elections?

Should we have a press where journalists who dig into the issues around Putin with too much vigour regularly walk onto bullets, step in front of cars on the pavement or clumsily fall out of 5th storey windows?

[Axholme Lion]

Rigo
I'm struggling to choose which of the lessons from Russia we should learn.

Should we have a socio-economic system that results in a male life expectancy of 65, like Russia?

Should we have a military policy that ignores international law and simply carpet bombs cities where hundreds of thousands of civilians?

Should we have a political system where the leader is surrounded by a cabal of gangster kleptocrats and can amass a personal fortune estimated at $200bn?

Should we have a legal system where opposition politicians who make too much of an impression are routinely jailed and banned from elections?

Should we have a press where journalists who dig into the issues around Putin with too much vigour regularly walk onto bullets, step in front of cars on the pavement or clumsily fall out of 5th storey windows?

There's more truth on RT than the BBC nowadays.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's alright AL. I've already written you off as one of the ones who's been lost to the far-Right propaganda machine. You don't have to keep on demonstrating it.

[SydneyRover]

It seems the rape charge wasn't dropped in Sweden, it was 'set aside' because of his unavailability. I'd expect that to have priority over other charges.

A bit of info on the 'rape' charges here SM

''On 20 August 2010, two women, a 26-year-old living in Enköping and a 31-year-old living in Stockholm,[4][5] jointly went to the Swedish police not seeking to bring charges against Assange but in order to track him down and persuade him to be tested for sexually transmitted diseases after their separate sexual encounters with him.[6] The police told them that they could not simply tell Assange to take a test, but that their statements would be passed to the prosecutor.[7] Later that day, the duty prosecutor ordered the arrest of Julian Assange on the suspicion of rape and molestation.[8]''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_Authority

[wing commander]

   On one bit I agree with Billy on the the fact that he is more alligned with Russia and there failure to ever expose them has always spoken volumes..

   So it's no surprise that Corbyn with his attitude to the West and his foreign policy has jumped out in his defence..He jumped bail so no problems with dragging him out by his hair,if Sweden re open the case that should be his next port of call and if they don't let the US have him...

[Axholme Lion]

It's alright AL. I've already written you off as one of the ones who's been lost to the far-Right propaganda machine. You don't have to keep on demonstrating it.

So we should believe the BBC?

[SydneyRover]

   On one bit I agree with Billy on the the fact that he is more alligned with Russia and there failure to ever expose them has always spoken volumes..

   So it's no surprise that Corbyn with his attitude to the West and his foreign policy has jumped out in his defence..He jumped bail so no problems with dragging him out by his hair,if Sweden re open the case that should be his next port of call and if they don't let the US have him...

Are we condemning him for his political persuation's here?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm not condemning him Sydney. I'm merely pointing out that the facts strongly suggest he's ideologically NOT on the side of truth and transparency. He's on the side of Putin.

You can then make your own decisions about whether you support him.or not personally.

In the meantime, if the USA has evidence that he conspired in crimes to hack state records, I'm struggling to see any LEGAL argument against him being extradited. The argument people will put forward (a la Corbyn) is a MORAL one: that, regardless of any legal case, Assange is a campaigner for truth  and transparency and should be protected from the consequences.

As I say, the facts strongly indicate that he is NOT an impartial campaigner for truth. He is a political agent.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You flick a bogey at me.

I smash your head in with a pick axe handle.

We're both unpleasant and violent, and disrespecting of people's private space eh?

Iraq was a disgrace. Compare that with Grozny and Aleppo and see if you can spot the differences.

Our democracy is fallible. But you don't usually see the Govt arresting the leader of the opposition and banging them up before an election.

Our health service is imperfect, but on average we live 15 years longer than Russians.

Our system allows far too much power to the rich and we'll connected. But we don't have politicians who amass enormous personal fortunes and have people who investigate too closely assassinated.

But if you want to insist that both are as bad, that's your call.

[Axholme Lion]

You flick a bogey at me.

I smash your head in with a pick axe handle.

We're both unpleasant and violent, and disrespecting of people's private space eh?

Iraq was a disgrace. Compare that with Grozny and Aleppo and see if you can spot the differences.

Our democracy is fallible. But you don't usually see the Govt arresting the leader of the opposition and banging them up before an election.

Our health service is imperfect, but on average we live 15 years longer than Russians.

Our system allows far too much power to the rich and we'll connected. But we don't have politicians who amass enormous personal fortunes and have people who investigate too closely assassinated.

But if you want to insist that both are as bad, that's your call.

Both Grozny and Allepo were justified military acts fighting Islamic terrorism, a pity our government hasn't got the back bone to do the same.