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I don't know anybody who I talk to whether original remainer or brexiteer who have changed their minds about the subject matter, I do know a couple of mates who like me voted to remain, but if there was another vote would vote out now, on the principle that the original vote should be respected.
Lets be real, no one (not even the great BST) can tell the future. We have all voted on gut feeling and what we want to happen. Both sides did (and supporters continue to) spew bile and rumour. Not one of you on here can know what is going on in the negotiations for real as we are fed shit and half truths from the UK and EU side of this now (despite how many articles from so called experts ppl post)Vote leave or vote remain. It is happening. Ppl can spend their time with self righteous "I know best" posts or we can all get on with life and deal with what comes when it comes
What makes your opinion any more valid than someone else's?
Yeah but Glyn, unless you are party to the negotiations you know nothing. I doubt you are daft enough to believe the media
Rj, I am quite open about my voting,In general elections I have never voted anything else but Labour in my life. On brexit I voted to stay in, in the unlikely event of another vote on brexit, I would vote to come out of the EU. The present leadership of the labour party, and the way the party is heading would make it hard for me at present to vote for any of the parties in a general election.
Quote from: Ldr on June 22, 2018, 08:56:17 pmYeah but Glyn, unless you are party to the negotiations you know nothing. I doubt you are daft enough to believe the mediaI don't need to know what's happening in the negotiations. If you think it revolves around them, you really don't know anything.My working life of being an International Trade Officer with Customs, of day-to-day working with EC and UK Law regarding Customs procedures, regulations, relief schemes and how the Single Market works means I know exactly what the implications of leaving the Customs Union and the Single Market are - and I also know that nothing that happens in the negotiations that you place so much store upon is going to change those implications. And yet you think your opinion of 'I know feck all about it' is just as valid as my opinion that is backed up by my years of knowledge and experience. If you want to believe that, then fine, live in your own little bubble of 'ignorance means equality'. But I'm not joining you there.
Ldr. I agree with what you say. Brexit is happening. That’s certain. The important point is though, that there’s a multitude of different ways in which it can happen. This Govt has CHOSEN to make it happen in a very particular way that is much harder than many of the Leave side said it would be. Farage, back in 2016, was touting a Norway-style arrangement for us post-Brexit. But we are actually going for a much bigger separation from the EU than Norway has. They are members of the EEA and the Single Market. May has CHOSEN not to go for that approach. She has done so, not in the country’s best interests but because there is a majority in the Tory party (not in the country) for a hard Brexit and she wouldn’t survive as PM if she went for a softer Brexit.What has happened is that the vote to leave was made with no clarity whatsoever about what leaving meant. It’s pretty well nailed on that if the choice in 2016 had been between Remain and THIS type of leaving, the vote would have gone the other way. You say we should make the best of it. I agree 100%. That means arguing against THIS type of Brexit because it will have very serious negative consequences for us. You say both sides have spouted lies and no-one can predict the future. But as MM says, the key predictions of the Remain side ARE coming true. And there is nothing being out forward by the hard Brexiters other than assurances that it’ll be alright.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on June 22, 2018, 09:23:33 pmQuote from: Ldr on June 22, 2018, 08:56:17 pmYeah but Glyn, unless you are party to the negotiations you know nothing. I doubt you are daft enough to believe the mediaI don't need to know what's happening in the negotiations. If you think it revolves around them, you really don't know anything.My working life of being an International Trade Officer with Customs, of day-to-day working with EC and UK Law regarding Customs procedures, regulations, relief schemes and how the Single Market works means I know exactly what the implications of leaving the Customs Union and the Single Market are - and I also know that nothing that happens in the negotiations that you place so much store upon is going to change those implications. And yet you think your opinion of 'I know feck all about it' is just as valid as my opinion that is backed up by my years of knowledge and experience. If you want to believe that, then fine, live in your own little bubble of 'ignorance means equality'. But I'm not joining you there.You may have more experience in customs related things but are you honestly so far up yourself that you think it makes your opinion more valid than someone who hasn't worked the same path as you. That air of superiority sickens me
Quote from: Ldr on June 23, 2018, 08:32:52 amQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on June 22, 2018, 09:23:33 pmQuote from: Ldr on June 22, 2018, 08:56:17 pmYeah but Glyn, unless you are party to the negotiations you know nothing. I doubt you are daft enough to believe the mediaI don't need to know what's happening in the negotiations. If you think it revolves around them, you really don't know anything.My working life of being an International Trade Officer with Customs, of day-to-day working with EC and UK Law regarding Customs procedures, regulations, relief schemes and how the Single Market works means I know exactly what the implications of leaving the Customs Union and the Single Market are - and I also know that nothing that happens in the negotiations that you place so much store upon is going to change those implications. And yet you think your opinion of 'I know feck all about it' is just as valid as my opinion that is backed up by my years of knowledge and experience. If you want to believe that, then fine, live in your own little bubble of 'ignorance means equality'. But I'm not joining you there.You may have more experience in customs related things but are you honestly so far up yourself that you think it makes your opinion more valid than someone who hasn't worked the same path as you. That air of superiority sickens meWell someone whose opinion is backed up by something other than a gut feeling tends to be more valid than someone whose opinion is just that.