Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: selby on October 25, 2020, 10:38:51 am
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Games just keep on coming up fast and furious, and to go to Plymouth on a Tuesday night if there were away spectators allowed would have been even more cruel than just making the team travel all that way for a game of football.
It is a game that we need to get the result this weekend out of our system, a game we deserved something from, but a recurring problem we have, if we were more ruthless in front of goal we would have got at least a point from both league games we have lost and would have done better in the cup games.
What can we do about it, very little in way of changes in personnel numbers but has tinkering with a couple of changes a game been part of the problem? is the old adage if it is not broken don't mend it more apt than we realise?
The fixture list and games so close together don't help a manager in these circumstances and at time lady luck has not been on our side in those games, and especially at Wigan and Crewe we have come up against two keepers who have made some terrific saves in the games.
I am happy with our position in the league always sceptical of teams that blast out of the blocks and streak away, not very often do they last the course, although we need to keep within reach and don't let a too big a gap appear, and if we keep playing as we are we will do all right especially if we start to take the chances we create.
Plymouth are one of the teams on our tails, like Crewe are used to winning games having just got promotion and have an unbeaten record at home winning three and drawing one, so a very difficult place to go and get a result, and will test our resolve to get back to winning ways quickly.
Their manager coming from the turmoil at Bury has built two sides good enough to get promotion from Division 2 so knows how to win games and must have a style of play that wins games we have a hard task ahead.
Would you make changes again although Taylor would be a doubt and a big miss?
Will we alter our tactics?
I have travelled to away games for the last few seasons, but will be more than happy to watch this game on ifollow instead of travelling all that way for a mid weak evening game, will you?
Will that be the future way we will watch games in mid week in the future? will the football authorities allow it? they should at least consider it and for most clubs with few travelling fans could be a better income stream.
Do you fancy us to bounce back with a win?
Lots to discuss about the game please have your say.
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Played four, won three, drawn one at home in League One this season. Only conceded two goals at home in the league this season and across those four games has been behind for only 14 minutes in total.
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Injuries are mounting already now , so keeping the rest fit for what is a game every 3-4 days is a heck of a schedule to keep up . DM will no doubt be making changes as a result of Taylor’s injury so getting back to free scoring will be his mantra , Gomes is due another run of goals ! Copps needs to play IMO if we are to avoid back to back defeats .
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We need to stay switched on as we didn’t yesterday,
. We had most of the play but got caught on the counter, and put away our chances
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Played four, won three, drawn one at home in League One this season. Only conceded two goals at home in the league this season and across those four games has been behind for only 14 minutes in total.
They are due a home defeat then. Undefeated home runs don’t last forever either. :thumbsup:
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I am guessing now, but In think this could be one of the few games when we will stay overnight for the game, probably trained yesterday and a little this morning and travel down later today.
Not cheap and accomodation for the numbers will not be easy to find with covid restrictions imposed on Hotels.
Would we travel back after the game? whatever we do it will impact on our build up for next weekend v Lincoln and some of the hardships of being a footballer.
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I am guessing now, but In think this could be one of the few games when we will stay overnight for the game, probably trained yesterday and a little this morning and travel down later today.
Not cheap and accomodation for the numbers will not be easy to find with covid restrictions imposed on Hotels.
Would we travel back after the game? whatever we do it will impact on our build up for next weekend v Lincoln and some of the hardships of being a footballer.
Seriously Brian? ‘Hardships of being a footballer’ Wish i had been good enough to have earned a living playing pro football.
Think if they can’t cope with 2 games a week then it’s a poor show. They should try being a pro Tennis player, now they do have huge physical demands put on them. IMO.
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Yes but tennis isn’t a contact sport and that makes a big difference. 2 games a week is hard going
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Yes but tennis isn’t a contact sport and that makes a big difference. 2 games a week is hard going
Well yes players get injuries, strains, etc playing football and the physical contact is different to tennis i agree but footballers playing 2 games a week means they train less on those weeks.
Tennis players can be on court for 4/5 hours each game playing a 5 set tennis match. If they are lucky they get 1 day between matches, sometimes they play consecutive days.
Try telling people working 3 different shifts week after week in a warehouse or factory about the hardships of being a pro footballer.
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I do get embarrassed when I read of how hard it is for sportsmen..
Anyway....should be a good game , if weather good play Gomes if not play Richards or Copps.... 1-4
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I do get embarrassed when I read of how hard it is for sportsmen..
Anyway....should be a good game , if weather good play Gomes if not play Richards or Copps.... 1-4
I will take that. 1-4 bring it on. :thumbsup:
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Pretty sure I heard DM say they were travelling down on the day.
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I am guessing now, but In think this could be one of the few games when we will stay overnight for the game, probably trained yesterday and a little this morning and travel down later today.
Not cheap and accomodation for the numbers will not be easy to find with covid restrictions imposed on Hotels.
Would we travel back after the game? whatever we do it will impact on our build up for next weekend v Lincoln and some of the hardships of being a footballer.
Seriously Brian? ‘Hardships of being a footballer’ Wish i had been good enough to have earned a living playing pro football.
Think if they can’t cope with 2 games a week then it’s a poor show. They should try being a pro Tennis player, now they do have huge physical demands put on them. IMO.
Try being a pro rugby league player at the min. Super league teams are practically playing every 3/4 days at the minute. I played both football and rugby league... a rugby league match used to take 2/3 days for the body to start feeling normal again...where as football I used to play again the same day.
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Any team coming up from League 2 is something of an unknown quantity and we found that in Crewe who performed better than Ipswich.
It is worrying that nearly all the new young lads on loan have proved injury-prone, but perhaps it is not only because they have yet to become "durable" in the tough world of "Man's Football", but also because they have put so much into the games so far. Hopefully they will learn when restraint rather than 100% is wise. In putting them into careful re-hab straightaway, rather than letting them carrying on, management has done the right thing.
But we do need them all back asap as we are running out of reinforcements. Two games a week requires at least a team and half of first team players. Tomorrow is an important test and a point at least to maintain expectations of a promotion challenge.
On iFollow, you would think that on any away fixture where you couldn't get there and back on the day (and get home at a civilised hour) it would be economically beneficial for the away side to have the games to be live-steamed, whether it was a Tuesday or a Saturday. Teams like Plymouth would lose some revenue on the gate, but they would gain extra money on almost all their away games since the nearest is Bristol Rovers which is 120 miles away which might be just about manageable, but nowhere else.
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Won a free match pass from the EFL rewards app got the code today so redeemed it for tomorrow.
We must perform better to get anything down there hopefully Darren will have got them to perform just like vs Ipswich
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I am in Plymouth working at the moment and would love to go to this.
They are a good side and also seem to be very fast
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Retdon, I love both games and agree about the Rugby League, the fitness levels are fantastic, it is definitely a young mans game, surprised at the comments being taken seriously as it was meant tongue in cheek, but hey it has created a bit of discussion.
Plymouth have a great pull area for supporters if they ever get a really good team together, a team that would suit the American idea of a franchise with little opposition for a live gate, a fantastic area scenic wise and one that holiday makers love, a very attractive area.
And yet one of the things the club say they have to fight against is the reluctance of players to be willing to move to the area which I have always found strange.
Personally I see this game now as something of a marker as to the character of the team and their ability to react to a knock to confidence which must have been running high after the Ipswich and Portsmouth games.
It will be interesting to see their reaction being a young side, and in most cases inexperienced.
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I see that the bbc are still showing the kick off time as 7.45pm.
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I see that the bbc are still showing the kick off time as 7.45pm.
So is our iFollow site.
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I am in Plymouth working at the moment and would love to go to this.
They are a good side and also seem to be very fast
Cruel luck .... Longest away game this Season for me (collecting Grounds) and had pencilled in this one Swindon and AFC as "not to be missed"
Looks like both of us unlucky lol
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Retdon, I love both games and agree about the Rugby League, the fitness levels are fantastic, it is definitely a young mans game, surprised at the comments being taken seriously as it was meant tongue in cheek, but hey it has created a bit of discussion.
Plymouth have a great pull area for supporters if they ever get a really good team together, a team that would suit the American idea of a franchise with little opposition for a live gate, a fantastic area scenic wise and one that holiday makers love, a very attractive area.
And yet one of the things the club say they have to fight against is the reluctance of players to be willing to move to the area which I have always found strange.
Personally I see this game now as something of a marker as to the character of the team and their ability to react to a knock to confidence which must have been running high after the Ipswich and Portsmouth games.
It will be interesting to see their reaction being a young side, and in most cases inexperienced.
Sorry Brian if I took your comment a bit too literally. :)
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I see that the bbc are still showing the kick off time as 7.45pm.
So is our iFollow site.
Yes I know.
I was wondering why the kick off hadn’t been brought forward due to the long distance to travel back home.
People were saying that was the reason why midweek kick offs were brought forward last time.
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If we are travelling down on the day the later kick off would give us more time after the journey down. Have a meal and a stroll around to loosen up rather than off the coach and play an hour later.
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I see that the bbc are still showing the kick off time as 7.45pm.
is it not 7.45?
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I see that the bbc are still showing the kick off time as 7.45pm.
is it not 7.45?
See subsequent posts mate.
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Still can’t find anything mate thought it was the Swindon one not the Plymouth that was 7?
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Not expecting anything tonight. I've always hated this lot since employing that murderer, too.
It's raining, players won't want their hair getting wet. Disappointing result on Saturday after 2 excellent results. Depends on which Rovers turn up.
Tough game Saturday. Only positive is we seem to have a decent home record vs. Lincoln.
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It kicks off at 7.45pm. Only the Ipswicu and Swindon games have been moved earlier so far.
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It kicks off at 7.45pm. Only the Ipswicu and Swindon games have been moved earlier so far.
Swindon v Accrington now off. Covid 19 presumably as both clubs have had games off in the last week.
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Not expecting anything tonight. I've always hated this lot since employing that murderer, too.
It's raining, players won't want their hair getting wet. Disappointing result on Saturday after 2 excellent results. Depends on which Rovers turn up.
Tough game Saturday. Only positive is we seem to have a decent home record vs. Lincoln.
they are also racked with covid, but there manager still wants to play the game
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It kicks off at 7.45pm. Only the Ipswicu and Swindon games have been moved earlier so far.
Swindon v Accrington now off. Covid 19 presumably as both clubs have had games off in the last week.
It is COVID.
I posted last week about this.
Accy have a big number of players and staff who have tested positive which is why their game last Saturday was called off and their game against Plymouth next Saturday is also postponed along with the game against Hull the following Tuesday.
This scenario is very likely to keep occurring over the coming weeks and months which will cause a fixture pile up.
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Scunthorpe are the latest - the next 3 games postponed as 8 players have tested positive and 10 more are self-isolating.
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Wooton, Grant, Canavan, and Cooper all unavailable for tonight's game due to Covid in the Plymouth ranks. Cooper the goalkeeper was the only one in action at Wigan on Saturday
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Scunthorpe are the latest - the next 3 games postponed as 8 players have tested positive and 10 more are self-isolating.
The EFL have said there will be an investigation into the Scunthorpe situation.
I reckon they should prepare themselves for a response from the EFL.............around April next year.
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Wooton, Grant, Canavan, and Cooper all unavailable for tonight's game due to Covid in the Plymouth ranks. Cooper the goalkeeper was the only one in action at Wigan on Saturday
that will put a massive hole in there side Brian, but the replacements will want to impress the manager
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Scunthorpe are the latest - the next 3 games postponed as 8 players have tested positive and 10 more are self-isolating.
The EFL have said there will be an investigation into the Scunthorpe situation.
I reckon they should prepare themselves for a response from the EFL.............around April next year.
Don't be ridiculous.
That's when it gets referred to the independent body.
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I don't know about that Dave, after reading the post on their forum one of the next comments was "thank God for that"
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I am guessing now, but In think this could be one of the few games when we will stay overnight for the game, probably trained yesterday and a little this morning and travel down later today.
I think I read a while back that "long" journeys such as Rovers v Ipswich would be brought forward to 7 pm then the Coach gets them back without an overnight stay
However if the journey is a "long long" one like Plymouth the Player travel down on the day of the game - have a normal KO and then stay overnight (departing the following day with a bag containing 3 Points)
So I am guessing you are right
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Scunthorpe are the latest - the next 3 games postponed as 8 players have tested positive and 10 more are self-isolating.
The EFL have said there will be an investigation into the Scunthorpe situation.
I reckon they should prepare themselves for a response from the EFL.............around April next year.
April hound. Your optimistic. :facepalm:
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Probably we will be back in Ground watching "live" before then
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Wooton, Grant, Canavan, and Cooper all unavailable for tonight's game due to Covid in the Plymouth ranks. Cooper the goalkeeper was the only one in action at Wigan on Saturday
Where did you get that info from mate?
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Conor Grant is on the bench.
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Wootton and Canavan are missing a third straight game due to Covid protocols despite testing negative. Cooper is fine and Grant is back on the bench.
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Wootton and Canavan are missing a third straight game due to Covid protocols despite testing negative. Cooper is fine and Grant is back on the bench.
Different Cooper isn’t it? George Cooper (midfielder) is still missing, the keeper Cooper hasn’t missed any games.
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Watching on I follow, or thought I would do, no picture, no sound, unbelievable.
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Mentioned on BBC sport page several teams having I follow issues
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Watching on I follow, or thought I would do, no picture, no sound, unbelievable.
Working fine for me.
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Shit 1-0 down
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We’ve been garbage. Nothing up front, passing sideways and backwards, or to a green shirt. Plus, playing at snails pace again. It’s not pleasing on the eye. We need a massive improvement in the second half.
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We are a toothless tiger at the moment it looks a bit slippery we seem to be falling down al the time but it’s same for doth sids, there winger looked off side to me when they scored and out players all stopped
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Whiteman, Smith & Copps not in the game.
We need to step it up big time 2nd half.
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Anyone hear the sound of a bubble bursting?
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This is tripe. We’re like headless chickens. Absolutely toothless all over the pitch.
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They have got behind our defence twice and scored twice it is ridiculous this we are playing like amateur team
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Mentioned on BBC sport page several teams having I follow issues.
Think I logged in too late, after 2.30.
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Hallelujah get in
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Much better 2nd half.
Needed Sims on earlier. Copps looks a shadow of his normal self at the moment.
Some fairly weak shooting tonight.
Thought Fej did well up front. Needed more support. 1st half we gave Plymouth far too much respect. Should have gone on all out attack as defensively they are very average imo.
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Bursik 8 Hallyday 6 Wright 7 Anderson 7 Jon 8 Copps 5 Smith 5 Whiteman 6 Taylor 6 Feiji 4 First half 7 second-half, James 6.
Amos would have been MOM if he had been given 30 minutes.
Sims would have probably have got us a goal had he played instead of an ineffective Copps tonight.
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Final third play is just not looking anything it did at the start of season . Injuries aside when we’ve been scoring freely from all over the pitch it’s hard to see why things have dried up .
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Bursik 8 Hallyday 6 Wright 7 Anderson 7 Jon 8 Copps 5 Smith 5 Whiteman 6 Taylor 6 Feiji 4 First half 7 second-half, James 6.
Amos would have been MOM if he had been given 30 minutes.
Sims would have probably have got us a goal had he played instead of an ineffective Copps tonight.
8 for John??
Give over he was dreadful
Feiji played well in the second half
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Wright and Okenabirhie missing those chances at 1 down a big turning point. Too much to do in the last 20 mins even though the performance did pick up
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Agreed, John had a shocker tonight.
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Bursik 8 Hallyday 6 Wright 7 Anderson 7 Jon 8 Copps 5 Smith 5 Whiteman 6 Taylor 6 Feiji 4 First half 7 second-half, James 6.
Amos would have been MOM if he had been given 30 minutes.
Sims would have probably have got us a goal had he played instead of an ineffective Copps tonight.
Halliday was awful tonight, both their goals arose from him being totally out of position. Not worth a score of 6 more like a 4. Unusual for him to be that bad!!
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Struggling for consistency at the moment aren't we. We've done well beating 3 of the top sides but now hit a tough patch. Big result needed Saturday. The worry is losing so many injured at the moment. We don't have the depth. Even copps coming in, it's tough for him after so long out at his age, he may well have more impact with more games.
The jury still out on a few players. Lots to be optimistic about but the lack of depth in a season like this up front is a problem.
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Sims had to start. But then again he scored on Saturday didnt he. Dont mind me :suicide:
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We looked tired and lethargic, and no cohesion between the midfield and the front men for the second game on the trot
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Would love to see Danny Amos starting at LB, if we play James on the wing. Feel we lose an attacking threat with John, looks less comfortable on the ball going forward putting crosses in etc
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Sims had to start. But then again he scored on Saturday didnt he. Dont mind me :suicide:
Fejiri on the bench on Saturday then.
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DM has dropped two goal scores the very next game surely that int right
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DM has dropped two goal scores the very next game surely that int right
3. James, John & Sims
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Sims had to start. But then again he scored on Saturday didnt he. Dont mind me :suicide:
Tbf I could understand Sims not starting because he hasn't played a lot of football before joining us. Tonight would have been like his 3rd game in a week and we will certainly need him to start Saturday.
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Bursik 8 Hallyday 6 Wright 7 Anderson 7 Jon 8 Copps 5 Smith 5 Whiteman 6 Taylor 6 Feiji 4 First half 7 second-half, James 6.
Amos would have been MOM if he had been given 30 minutes.
Sims would have probably have got us a goal had he played instead of an ineffective Copps tonight.
Halliday was awful tonight, both their goals arose from him being totally out of position. Not worth a score of 6 more like a 4. Unusual for him to be that bad!!
He was bang average last Saturday too
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Bursik was good, Sims and Amos were good and both should have started.
Halliday and John looked as bad a full back pairing as Wabarra and Evina at their worst.
It was the worst game I've ever seen Ben play for us, and Copps needn't have bothered putting his shirt on.
I said on here the other day that these slow starts would cost us, and tonight was a typical example. We put no effort in whatsoever until we were 0-2 down.
As for DM, I sincerely hope he's not going to be another manager for square pegs in round holes.
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John is not, & never will be, a left back. Hallidays positional play is awful, admitted he has improved, but only going forward.
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Most people have see for months that John isn’t a full back. But he keeps playing him there.
James instead of sims is daft
The subsTitutions were ridiculous
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Most people have see for months that John isn’t a full back. But he keeps playing him there.
James instead of sims is daft
The subsTitutions were ridiculous
Rotation is necessary if fatigue isn’t to set in with playing 3 games every week and not enough strikers .
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Hopefully John-Jules, Tulloch and Taylor Richards aren't too far off coming back
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John is not, & never will be, a left back. Hallidays positional play is awful, admitted he has improved, but only going forward.
For me Halliday hasn't improved at all. He has never been anything but a league 2 player. And that's being kind to him.
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John is not, & never will be, a left back. Hallidays positional play is awful, admitted he has improved, but only going forward.
it’s all about opinions I suppose !
For me Halliday hasn't improved at all. He has never been anything but a league 2 player. And that's being kind to him.
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John is not, & never will be, a left back. Hallidays positional play is awful, admitted he has improved, but only going forward.
it’s all about opinions I suppose !
For me Halliday hasn't improved at all. He has never been anything but a league 2 player. And that's being kind to him.
You are right about opinions but for me he must be a wingers dream. Wouldn't you like Taylor facing someone like him every week?
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Halliday gives the ball away far too much, but tonight he wasn't on his own
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Two contrasting arguments.
1) Last two matches leave me worried that we've been rumbled. Get in Whiteman's face and deny him the space to dictate the tempo and we struggle. Crewe and Plymouth for long periods did to us precisely what we did to Ipswich, harrying us and pressing hard when we had the ball and forcing us into mistakes.
2) That said, in both games we have created a decent number of good chances and we probably ought to have come out with 2 draws. We've also had two very strong penalty shouts ignored (Wright was pulled back when he messed up that gold plated header tonight). I assume that sooner or later these big decisions will start going our way, because they sure as hell aren't doing at the moment.
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That's the conundrums DM faces. He's dealing with an increasing injury list, which I'm sure he doesn't want to add to.
With high reliance on Whiteman, Anderson, Wright, Halliday, they can be forgiven for showing some fatigue even at this early stage of the season but the enforced tinkering in front of them doesn't make it easier.
Both the Crewe game and tonight, we created enough chances to get results, just as we converted more of those chances in the previous two games.
The good news is Fejiri is now creating more opportunities for himself, looking much stronger even if he's not converting as many as we would like. Four games ago, he looked lethergic and a forlorn figure.
Already we've seen other teams have their struggles so it's not uncommon.
There isn't anything majorly wrong with what DM is doing. There are very fine lines in football that can make a big difference either way. A set back can be really energy sapping and goals can give the opposite energy boost.
We shouldn't be beating ourselves up about this. It will come again, hopefully sooner rather than later.
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We missed a few chances in the second half but Plymouth missed a few also. I’m not sure we did enough to deserve a draw.
The first half today was as bad as the second half v Wigan
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The team isn’t going to function when the entire centre midfield went missing for a full 45 mins.
I didnt even know Whiteman & Copps were on the pitch until the 35th min.
Smith ran around looking busy and it was just as well he did or we would have been completely over run in that very lethargic 1st half.
2nd half we were much better and created enough opportunities to have won the game. Thought Anderson was the best player and good solid games by Bursik, Wright and Ferji.
The latter is improving game on game, holds the ball up well and is creating scoring chances. He misses too many relatively easy ones but has a couple of goals under his belt now and I think plenty more to come.
Don’t like criticising our manager as when we win we are all happy. When we lose we are not happy and find faults to pick out in team selection, positions and tactics.
Having said that like many on this forum I still don’t see CJ as a left back especially as he has 2 good ones in James and Amos at his disposal.
Halliday had a poor game last night but for me that was his first below par performance for a very long time.
I thought DM’s tactics with team selection was somewhat safety first and that is the first time that approach has been used this season.
We need to get on the front foot from the first whistle, use the pace we have in this squad and not allow the opposition to dictate the way the game was played.
We fell into that trap last night and Plymouth took advantage.
They are a decent hard working team much like Crewe were but in all probability no more than a mid table team in this league imo.
Need to step it up on Saturday as we are playing the top of table team so that suggests they are quite useful.
We will have get back to our very best a la Ipswich match to beat them.
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That's the conundrums DM faces. He's dealing with an increasing injury list, which I'm sure he doesn't want to add to.
With high reliance on Whiteman, Anderson, Wright, Halliday, they can be forgiven for showing some fatigue even at this early stage of the season but the enforced tinkering in front of them doesn't make it easier.
Both the Crewe game and tonight, we created enough chances to get results, just as we converted more of those chances in the previous two games.
The good news is Fejiri is now creating more opportunities for himself, looking much stronger even if he's not converting as many as we would like. Four games ago, he looked lethergic and a forlorn figure.
Already we've seen other teams have their struggles so it's not uncommon.
There isn't anything majorly wrong with what DM is doing. There are very fine lines in football that can make a big difference either way. A set back can be really energy sapping and goals can give the opposite energy boost.
We shouldn't be beating ourselves up about this. It will come again, hopefully sooner rather than later.
i don’t think it’s a lot to do with injuries at the moment, as the ones on view last night are players DM has got in to play his system, and we know they all can play but for some reason the last two games have looked a bit amateurish
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As said, fitness v form?
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-boss-explains-madger-gomes-absence-and-josh-sims-starting-bench-plymouth-argyle-3017122
Understandable and you can appreciate how difficult it is to keep players motivated when they know they might be rotated irrespective of how they play!
That said, we need John-Jules and Tulloch back pronto.
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I thought we were pretty poor last night and nobody could take much credit,even Coppinger was awful..This is the problem with these loan players.Yes they are more technically gifted than our contracted players but a few games in and they cant handle mens football..
I also have to say that whilst i love DM His interview last night had me shouting at the radio...He watched a different game to me,didnt think it was a bad performance and we deserved something from the game.In fact it was almost like he was trying to convince himself..
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I thought we were pretty poor last night and nobody could take much credit,even Coppinger was awful..This is the problem with these loan players.Yes they are more technically gifted than our contracted players but a few games in and they cant handle mens football..
What on earth are you talking about? If we use your logic here then Copps, Madger and Fej can’t handle men’s football either.
Smith was the only thing keeping our midfield in the game first half. Bursik made some great saves. Sims, although tired, looked a threat when he came on.
Halliday, John and Copps looked awful last night. All players have bad games and that’s got to be accepted. What worries me most about last night is Halliday. I have no clue whether he played badly at RB as he was seldom in that position. As a lost sheep somewhere between wing back and defensive midfield he was shocking though.
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I thought we were pretty poor last night and nobody could take much credit,even Coppinger was awful..This is the problem with these loan players.Yes they are more technically gifted than our contracted players but a few games in and they cant handle mens football..
I also have to say that whilst i love DM His interview last night had me shouting at the radio...He watched a different game to me,didnt think it was a bad performance and we deserved something from the game.In fact it was almost like he was trying to convince himself..
Nope. Sorry, you can't tar the loan players with the same brush.
Go through our long list of young loan players and tell us which can or can't handle men's football.
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Credit to Plymouth and Crewe, two good additions to the league who played better football than us and, surprisingly, seemed to have higher individual skill levels. I am hoping that we are a lot better than the last two games and that the message within the group, if not in public, is that those performances were not acceptable
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I thought we were pretty poor last night and nobody could take much credit,even Coppinger was awful..This is the problem with these loan players.Yes they are more technically gifted than our contracted players but a few games in and they cant handle mens football..
I also have to say that whilst i love DM His interview last night had me shouting at the radio...He watched a different game to me,didnt think it was a bad performance and we deserved something from the game.In fact it was almost like he was trying to convince himself..
Over the whole game, I agree with DM. Did more than enough to get a point. As bad as we were in the first half, Plymouth offered virtually nothing and were there for the taking in the second half. We just need more composure when we get a sight of goal. Don't forget, almost half a team missing tonight.
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Their centre half on loan from Fulham was outstanding. Fej battled hard but struggled against him, for the most part.
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I thought we were pretty poor last night and nobody could take much credit,even Coppinger was awful..This is the problem with these loan players.Yes they are more technically gifted than our contracted players but a few games in and they cant handle mens football..
I also have to say that whilst i love DM His interview last night had me shouting at the radio...He watched a different game to me,didnt think it was a bad performance and we deserved something from the game.In fact it was almost like he was trying to convince himself..
What on earth have loan players got to do with it? Imo.
Whiteman & Copps, 2 of our most seasoned contracted pros were non existent in that 1st half and Copps was as bad 2nd half also.
Loan players are our players for the duration of their loan in the same way contracted players are for the length of the contract.
What’s the difference please? A loan can be extended, a contract can be extended. A loan can terminated, and a contracted player can be transferred.
This obsession some have with not liking loanees baffles me. It is the common sense way to boost squads player numbers for lower league clubs. In the current economic situation it is a necessity and not even a choice for most league 1 & 2 clubs.
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Their centre half on loan from Fulham was outstanding. Fej battled hard but struggled against him, for the most part.
Thought Fej did very well indeed and was one of our best players.
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Plymouth sussed us out fair play to them. We were terrible defensively especially on the flanks. We also need to take our chances, Fey, Wright and Whiteman should all score their chances.
Fey did play well on the whole tho my MOTM.
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Their centre half on loan from Fulham was outstanding. Fej battled hard but struggled against him, for the most part.
Thought Fej did very well indeed and was one of our best players.
In hindsight, he may have got more out of him than i'm giving him credit for. Was a good contest. Put a real shift in.
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Fej was superb last night against an excellent opponent. That was a fascinating contest.
And it would have been a different result if Fej had gone down when he was being pulled at for 30 yards when he got in behind the defence. That should have been a red card.
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Fej was superb last night against an excellent opponent. That was a fascinating contest.
And it would have been a different result if Fej had gone down when he was being pulled at for 30 yards when he got in behind the defence. That should have been a red card.
There was also a shove on Wright by the same guy when he put his header wide - that was also a potential red card.
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I do agree that Danny Amos should get a run of games .
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It's interesting that we note the things that other teams are consistently better than us. In these days of analytics, you'd think these things would stand out like a sore thumb and would be worked on in training until better execution becomes evident. We don't know things aren't being worked on but yet, we have yet to see any real evidence of it.
A few examples that really get my goat. Please feel free to ADD and/or disagree.
1. Shooting. a) Too often we seem to go for the picture book top corners. What about the bottom corners?
B) Shooting opportunities. How many times do we see players get in to good shooting positions and delay their strikes giving defenders and keepers to get set?
C) Shooting opportunities. Players getting in to good shooting positions then offloading? Very often to someone in a worse position.
2) Deliveries from wide areas.
a) We rarely seem to be capable if picking someone out, more often than not defaulting to the percentage ball in the hope someone will be in the vacinity.
b) Quality of crossing. So many overhit or underhit crosses.
3) Set pieces. Our conversion rate from set pieces must be one of the lowest in the league.
a) Too many short free kicks going backwards seem to be preferring a resumption of open play instead of a taking a free go at getting the ball into the danger area.
B) Little evidence of practiced routines, particularly at corners. Seems like if they don't work first time, bin it and go back to whatever we feel like.
For all of the above there are training routines we should be seeing more evidence of set plays. The ball carrier from wide areas must have 2 or three options and attacking players should be busting a gut to get into their pre-practiced positions for near post, far post, cut backs etc.
These are elements of games that are so basic but so important and need to be practiced as much as shape, positioning and patterns in open play, which we are generally very good at.
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Think the 0 players in the box corner was an interesting one. If it works it will look amazing but that delivery was awful. If Plymouth typically zonal mark a corner it would have been static defenders against moving attackers and no contest. Should have tried it a 2nd time and got the delivery right.
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DBR - interesting points about shooting. That’s one of the things I really like about Okenabirhie - he’s always looking to get that shot away. People say he should have had hat tricks in the last 2 games but realistically on several of his shots most of our other players would have delayed and lost the opportunity to shoot.
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I thought we were pretty poor last night and nobody could take much credit,even Coppinger was awful..This is the problem with these loan players.Yes they are more technically gifted than our contracted players but a few games in and they cant handle mens football..
What on earth are you talking about? If we use your logic here then Copps, Madger and Fej can’t handle men’s football either.
Smith was the only thing keeping our midfield in the game first half. Bursik made some great saves. Sims, although tired, looked a threat when he came on.
Halliday, John and Copps looked awful last night. All players have bad games and that’s got to be accepted. What worries me most about last night is Halliday. I have no clue whether he played badly at RB as he was seldom in that position. As a lost sheep somewhere between wing back and defensive midfield he was shocking though.
The point i am trying to make is that they struggle to play the amount of games we need them too..3 of our young loan signings are out injured already..The rigors of mens football is far different from development football..
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I agree about the rigours of men’s football but some of our men are not doing either. Which showed last night. Im not sure we could have sign better men under our financial constraints
As for Goals in league 1 our men forwards
Copps averages 3/4 per season
Taylor average 3/4 per season
Okenibhere. best was 10 goals 2 years ago.
So we do not have clinical finishes unless the young loanees can keep fit and step up,
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I agree about the rigours of men’s football but some of our men are not doing either. Which showed last night. Im not sure we could have sign better men under our financial constraints
As for Goals in league 1 our men forwards
Copps averages 3/4 per season
Taylor average 3/4 per season
Okenibhere. best was 10 goals 2 years ago.
So we do not have clinical finishes unless the young loanees can keep fit and step up,
Potentially Steve, although we are the joint second highest scorers in the League, I think it's more the goals are spread round the team rather than being focused solely up front.
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DBR - interesting points about shooting. That’s one of the things I really like about Okenabirhie - he’s always looking to get that shot away. People say he should have had hat tricks in the last 2 games but realistically on several of his shots most of our other players would have delayed and lost the opportunity to shoot.
Yes, Fejiri has upped his game in that respect and is working room and getting shots off. If he can start to convert a few more he's setting a good lead for all to follow.
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DBR - interesting points about shooting. That’s one of the things I really like about Okenabirhie - he’s always looking to get that shot away. People say he should have had hat tricks in the last 2 games but realistically on several of his shots most of our other players would have delayed and lost the opportunity to shoot.
Will he get games though if John-Jules and Tulloch come back? I suspect he would be dropped like a stone.
Yes, Fejiri has upped his game in that respect and is working room and getting shots off. If he can start to convert a few more he's setting a good lead for all to follow.
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Fej was superb last night against an excellent opponent. That was a fascinating contest.
And it would have been a different result if Fej had gone down when he was being pulled at for 30 yards when he got in behind the defence. That should have been a red card.
Superb?? Hardly.
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I agree about the rigours of men’s football but some of our men are not doing either. Which showed last night. Im not sure we could have sign better men under our financial constraints
As for Goals in league 1 our men forwards
Copps averages 3/4 per season
Taylor average 3/4 per season
Okenibhere. best was 10 goals 2 years ago.
So we do not have clinical finishes unless the young loanees can keep fit and step up,
Potentially Steve, although we are the joint second highest scorers in the League, I think it's more the goals are spread round the team rather than being focused solely up front.
I agree with that but our young players in positions they play will have to contribute with goals and all players must try and be more clinical.
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I think Copps problem is lack of game time recently, he’s been benched for most of the season, you can’t expect him to come in and be vintage Copps straight away
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Just watched the the highlights and extended highlights, and while of course it can give a skewed view of the game, I feel maybe we are being too down on the team. The defending in the RB position was of course responsible for the two goals, but Taylor was at fault for the first (although it can be argued Halliday should have been running back quicker to support) but Halliday was at fault for the second. But we did make chances that on another night might have been goals - e.g. Taylor's shot deflected over, Wright's header (and he was surely impeded), and Fej's goal disallowed for offside - difficult to tell from our angle, but then the linesman on the far side was in no better a position so must have been guessing. And then indeed the incident when Fej was through. At what point does the referee play advantage and then not bring play back?
We need a bit of luck IMHO.
Some of Richards, Tulloch, John-Jules and Gomes must be back soon which will help.
By the way, I have no idea but do the bubbling arrangments mean the players and the rest of the match day group can stay in hotels? Did they drive down on the day, and back afterwards?
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I think they drove down on the day not ideal preparation,i dont know if they returned same night.
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Just watched the the highlights and extended highlights, and while of course it can give a skewed view of the game, I feel maybe we are being too down on the team. The defending in the RB position was of course responsible for the two goals, but Taylor was at fault for the first (although it can be argued Halliday should have been running back quicker to support) but Halliday was at fault for the second. But we did make chances that on another night might have been goals - e.g. Taylor's shot deflected over, Wright's header (and he was surely impeded), and Fej's goal disallowed for offside - difficult to tell from our angle, but then the linesman on the far side was in no better a position so must have been guessing. And then indeed the incident when Fej was through. At what point does the referee play advantage and then not bring play back?
We need a bit of luck IMHO.
Some of Richards, Tulloch, John-Jules and Gomes must be back soon which will help.
By the way, I have no idea but do the bubbling arrangments mean the players and the rest of the match day group can stay in hotels? Did they drive down on the day, and back afterwards?
Would agree with all of that Dutch. I think it was James who was offside for Fej's goal.
I jokingly said to my mates when predicting the result that Rovers were likely to be suffering from Deep Vein Thrombosis from the 300 mile trip and it will take to time to get that out of their legs.
Halliday is one of our most improved players in all aspects but he is human afterall. So much of our attacking intent is dependant on full backs pushing forward and, as with everything, there comes a risk. For their second goal, the pass over the top was telegraphed yet, he turned like the QE2 and couldn't catch his man. He was most likely simply knackered! No surprise then he was taken off, which is and likely to be a rarity.
A 2-1 loss away at Plymouth is no disgrace. How we bounce back v Lincoln on Saturday is more important.
Only 2 weeks ago Portsmouth were all at sea, Ipswich were digging themselves into a hole, Sunderland keep flattering to deceive, Posh's revenge seemed to be shooting themselves in the foot.
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People having a go at Halliday should take into account that Danny Mayor, who played mostly down their left, is probably the best player we have come up against this season.
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Most people have see for months that John isn’t a full back. But he keeps playing him there.
James instead of sims is daft
The subsTitutions were ridiculous
Agreed on all those points Dickos.
I have noticed that there are more criticisms of DM now that results are not so good.
Understandable of course.
Will everyone still be saying “in DM we trust” in three months time.
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Most people have see for months that John isn’t a full back. But he keeps playing him there.
James instead of sims is daft
The subsTitutions were ridiculous
Rotation is necessary if fatigue isn’t to set in with playing 3 games every week and not enough strikers .
We don’t play three games in a week.
We play Saturday and Tuesday some weeks.
The next Saturday after that is in the following week.
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Think the 0 players in the box corner was an interesting one. If it works it will look amazing but that delivery was awful. If Plymouth typically zonal mark a corner it would have been static defenders against moving attackers and no contest. Should have tried it a 2nd time and got the delivery right.
That corner obviously had a planned type of delivery and if it was actually the ball that Copps delivered then it was down to our players to get on the end of it.
The ball was driven across goal, on the six yard line(ish) and none of our players made the move forward to get on the end of it.
It would have been an awful ball for a defender to deal with as they would have been running towards their own goal.
It might be worth another go.
Of course we don’t know if the ball that Copps sent over was the rehearsed one but as a former front man I always preferred that type of ball in rather than one that was hung up.
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People having a go at Halliday should take into account that Danny Mayor, who played mostly down their left, is probably the best player we have come up against this season.
Agreed. He was a handful. Very good player.
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Think the 0 players in the box corner was an interesting one. If it works it will look amazing but that delivery was awful. If Plymouth typically zonal mark a corner it would have been static defenders against moving attackers and no contest. Should have tried it a 2nd time and got the delivery right.
That corner obviously had a planned type of delivery and if it was actually the ball that Copps delivered then it was down to our players to get on the end of it.
The ball was driven across goal, on the six yard line(ish) and none of our players made the move forward to get on the end of it.
It would have been an awful ball for a defender to deal with as they would have been running towards their own goal.
It might be worth another go.
Of course we don’t know if the ball that Copps sent over was the rehearsed one but as a former front man I always preferred that type of ball in rather than one that was hung up.
Think it definitely required the driven ball. Without re-watching it I think the delivery was too high on that occasion. Try it again and see what happens. Can see an Anderson overhead volley into the top corner winning goal of the season when we get it right?!
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Think the 0 players in the box corner was an interesting one. If it works it will look amazing but that delivery was awful. If Plymouth typically zonal mark a corner it would have been static defenders against moving attackers and no contest. Should have tried it a 2nd time and got the delivery right.
That corner obviously had a planned type of delivery and if it was actually the ball that Copps delivered then it was down to our players to get on the end of it.
The ball was driven across goal, on the six yard line(ish) and none of our players made the move forward to get on the end of it.
It would have been an awful ball for a defender to deal with as they would have been running towards their own goal.
It might be worth another go.
Of course we don’t know if the ball that Copps sent over was the rehearsed one but as a former front man I always preferred that type of ball in rather than one that was hung up.
Think it definitely required the driven ball. Without re-watching it I think the delivery was too high on that occasion. Try it again and see what happens. Can see an Anderson overhead volley into the top corner winning goal of the season when we get it right?!
I haven’t seen a replay of it 5on tour so can only remember what I saw live at the time.
I feel sure that the ball came across at a headable height.