Voter ID

[BillyStubbsTears]

Why are the majority of left leaning posters on here so angry about this?

Because we want as many people as possible to vote.

I know exactly why the right-wing leaning posters are supportive of barriers to voting, I don't even need to ask the question.

"In a democracy, it is for the voters to decide who governs. It is not for the government to decides who votes".

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/voter-fraud-elections-queens-speech-photo-identification

The government aren't deciding who votes, they are just ensuring the people who do have the right to.

And in doing so, they will disenfranchise several hundred thousand people who, for whatever reason, don't want to sign up for an ID. Like the colleague of mine who has psychological issues which mean that he is deeply suspicious of authority. He doesn't drive, has never had a passport and doesn't even have a TV because he's have had to sign up for a licence. He has voted all his life, but there is no way in a million years that he is going to sign up for a voter ID card. My brother in law who has Aspergers Syndrome is another one who will simply not sign up for a Voter ID card.

Hancock, when this sort of problem was pointed out to him yesterday, along with the fact that there have only been 6 proven cases of vote fraud said "6 cases is 6 too many". Which, in a competitive field may be the single most stupid shite that has ever left his lips. If we have that few cases, we do NOT have a problem that is worth disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of people.

[drfchound]

BST, surely though your colleague and bro in law have had to register to vote.

[Metalmicky]

BST, surly though your colleague and bro in law have had to register to vote.

Exactly that....?

[BillyStubbsTears]

In the case of my brother in law, the family registers him. My colleague has registered because he wants to vote. His issue is with the principle of ID cards.

[Axholme Lion]

It strikes me that some on here are happy for fraud to take place to help their chosen party get elected. The whole subject is a joke. No ID=No vote. The fairest way forward for all.

[selby]

What about the Australian way Syd, probably the best in the world.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It strikes me that some on here are happy for fraud to take place to help their chosen party get elected. The whole subject is a joke. No ID=No vote. The fairest way forward for all.

6 cases of fraud were identified last year, in an electorate of 48 million. That's one vote in 8 million.

So if you pick a voter at random, they are 8 times less likely to have committed election fraud last year than they are to have been struck by lightning (1 person in every million are struck by lightning in the UK every year).

It is a non-problem. But it is going to be used to make it much harder for marginalised honest voters. It's the Tory party learning from the actions of the Republican party in the States that you cement your power by making it harder for your opponents to get their voters out.

[ravenrover]

It strikes me that some on here are happy for fraud to take place to help their chosen party get elected. The whole subject is a joke. No ID=No vote. The fairest way forward for all.

My mum when she was alive had no ID the only thing with her name and photo on was a bus pass
 She had a tin box under the bed in which she kept all her other paperwork NI card NHS card Tv licence birth cert Marriage cert (both of them) husbands death cert (both of them) how would she have been able to vote without an ID card? One piece of paperwork with photo NHS no NI no and a signature would have been the way to go as long as it was free

[wilts rover]

It strikes me that some on here are happy for fraud to take place to help their chosen party get elected. The whole subject is a joke. No ID=No vote. The fairest way forward for all.

So scrap postal voting for everybody. Armed services, ex-pats, people with holidays booked or working abroad - everybody.

[wilts rover]

"I think in terms of this particular part of the Queen's Speech, I think it's total b*****ks, and I think it's trying to give a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and that makes it politics as performance.

"And I think that given where we are and the year we've had, we've got real problems to solve in this country, and the idea that this is some sort of legislative priority I think is for the birds."

says prominent Tory politician:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ruth-davidson-savages-tories-total-24098370

[SydneyRover]

What about the Australian way Syd, probably the best in the world.

You don't have to register here selby

[selby]

  You do have to vote though or get fined.

[SydneyRover]

There are penalties but it's so easy to arrange a postal vote or an early vote. You need a valid excuse if you didn't, if you are registered in the first place. Many don't bother to register when they reach 18.

First time offence for not voting $50.

https://www.aec.gov.au/about_aec/publications/backgrounders/compulsory-voting.htm

[selby]

  Syd on Talkradio they discussed this topic yesterday and according to that programme  an independent world authority rated the Australian voting system the best and the American 57th in the world didn't hear the UK for voter fraud and population participation.

[SydneyRover]

the 2019 election, more people get murdered in the UK than those convicted for voter fraud, in fact an average of 2 people per year die by lighting strike which is also more than those prosecuted.

595 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, four led to a conviction and two individuals were given a police caution.

there are no valid reasons for ID cards it's only designed as a way of disenfranchising part of the electorate, I'll leave it to you to figure out which bit it's aimed at selby.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/our-views-and-research/our-research/electoral-fraud-data/2019-electoral-fraud-data

[SydneyRover]

Direct to you from country with the best electoral system in the world, apparently

''How bad is voter fraud in Australia?
Not as bad as conservatives would have you believe''

''While the AEC does recommend a Queensland-style voter ID requirement and an electronic database to mark voters off as they go, the stats provided by the AEC to the joint standing committee revealed that, excluding the 42 cases in Herbert, there were only 76 cases of multiple voting referred to the AFP for further investigation, following 18,000 instances of people having their name marked off the roll more than once''

There you go, every day's a school day, I didn't know they asked for voter ID in Qld.

Look at the graph selby zero prosecutions 2010-2016

https://www.crikey.com.au/2017/02/15/how-bad-is-voter-fraud-in-australia/

[Glyn_Wigley]

  Syd on Talkradio they discussed this topic yesterday and according to that programme  an independent world authority rated the Australian voting system the best and the American 57th in the world didn't hear the UK for voter fraud and population participation.

What were the terms of reference of their rating sustem?

[selby]

  Syd, I have no real thoughts on whether ID cards should be imposed or not, but am old enough to realise that just because the voter fraud numbers being caught are low, does not mean that it does not go on in far higher numbers possibly.
  When my father died by the way I found his  ID card, so they have been in place in the past.

[selby]

  We had them for the duration of the first world war, and from 1939 t0 1952 so the Labour party were for them after the war.  They were stopped because of population unease apparently.
  But world wide population movement has moved on quite a bit since then.

[SydneyRover]

What did you do in the war dad?

[selby]

  He was trained enough to rattle your cage until he was about 80years old Syd.

[SydneyRover]

  He was trained enough to rattle your cage until he was about 80years old Syd.

Shouldn't you be doing it from the outside?

[bobjimwilly]

Here's a simple question, that demands a simple answer:

Would you rather:
a) live with approx. 6 people a year committing voter fraud
b) disenfranchise 1000s of voters, charge the public purse £millions to process and produce ID cards and reduce the overall effectiveness of our proud democracy

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see Trump has waded in saying we are doing the right thing bringing in Voter ID.

Choose which side you are on folks.

[drfchound]

When you look at the increasingly low voter turnouts, will a voter ID card really make much difference anyway.
The people who want to vote would go out and get an ID card and the bigger proportion of the public, those that don’t vote for whatever reason, won’t bother to get an ID card as they aren’t going to vote anyway.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

An extract from a bit of research on the topic. Are all these areas wrong?

https://www.nccivitas.org/civitas-review/fact-check-international-voter-id-laws/

Norway mandates that voters present a photo ID, including a “passport, driving license, or bank card that includes a photo,” to vote.

Voters in Northern Ireland must present an “acceptable photo identification” to cast an in-person ballot.

Germany requires that voters bring a state-issued voter identification card, but they can substitute another form of ID for that card if they fail to deliver it at the polls.

Ballots in Switzerland are issued by mail, and voters who return their ballots in person are required to show an ID and a state-issued polling card to do so.

France requires a voter ID.

Israel requires a voter ID.

Mexico requires a voter ID.

Iceland requires a voter ID.

[SydneyRover]

It's their choice pud, maybe they have more voter fraud and there is 195 countries in the world which we could ask the same question. The thing is as I have pointed out, more people die from lighting strike than are convicted/fined for voter fraud in the UK

[selby]

  Haven't you realised yet Pud, if you don't agree with anything Billy and the disciples think you are going to get reams and reams of posts trying to make you think the same as they do. If you don't the pack instinct will kick in., and if what you write anything that looks like you are not against anything the Tory Party want to introduce, well that starts a frenzy, and you could well be accused of being a Nazi.
 It's easier just to throw a hook in with Syd and watch this space.

[SydneyRover]

  Haven't you realised yet Pud, if you don't agree with anything Billy and the disciples think you are going to get reams and reams of posts trying to make you think the same as they do. If you don't the pack instinct will kick in., and if what you write anything that looks like you are not against anything the Tory Party want to introduce, well that starts a frenzy, and you could well be accused of being a Nazi.
 It's easier just to throw a hook in with Syd and watch this space.

And yet here you are again replying and handing out gratuitous advice that you don't follow yourself, I note Leeds had a big win on the weekend and could well finish in the top half?

[selby]

  There you go the last word machine, told ya just a hook.  Only a tiddler again though.