Brexit Negotiations

[Bentley Bullet]

BST

I've never said our economy hasn't taken a hit. It was expected as an initial consequence of voting to leave.

The difference is you are predicting a storm long-term, and I'm not. That doesn't mean to say I'm predicting there won't be one, I'm saying I don't know.

I'm no Michael Fish.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

No. I'm not predicting anything.

I'm going on the predictions of the economists who were:

Bang on right about Austerity
Bang on right about the effect of the Brexit vote on the pound.
Bang on right about the effect of the Brexit vote on inflation.
Bang on right about the effect of the Brexit vote on our immediate economic performance.

People who have that sort of track record deserve to have their predictions taken seriously.

You are going on...well what? Hope? Belief that Rees-Mogg is right? What exactly?

[BillyStubbsTears]

And by the way.

Where has THIS suddenly come from:
"
I've never said our economy hasn't taken a hit. It was expected as an initial consequence of voting to leave."

Only, when I first pointed out last year that our economy was tanking post the Brexit vote, your first response was that it was due to uncertainty because of the General Election, then that it was due to miserable sods like me talking down the country.

Just for the record, are you now saying that you accept that the economic drop that we've already had (£60-90bn and rising fast) IS due to the Brexit vote?

[hoolahoop]

I cant help thinking you will be waiting a fair while for an answer to that one. .....

[Bentley Bullet]

BST.

If I remember correctly I asked if it was possible that our economy might have been affected by the General Election. I never personally said that it had. Perhaps you should have another look and apologise accordingly.

As for me accepting there has been an economic drop since the Brexit vote, I've NEVER said otherwise! Everyone, and I mean both Remainers and Leavers expected an initial slump in the economy after the leave vote because of the uncertainty of the future.

Hoola, Some of us have other things to do on a Saturday afternoon. I replied to BST's post as soon as I could. Talking of waiting, I can't help thinking it will be a while before I get my apology from BST, what do you reckon?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

If I misjudged your old comment and you were really asking me what I thought of the effect of the election on GDP rather than suggesting it yourself as an alternative explanation to Brexit the I apologise profusely. I always do when I get stuff wrong.  Especially to people who seem to set great store on needing apologies.

I'll apologise even more if you can show me where you previously have accepted that Brexit would have a detrimental economic effect, and I'll treble it if you can show me where any leading Brexiter said such  a thing before the vote.

[SydneyRover]

here is a post for all those that say no one posts the good things that tories say and want

“I think it is complete balderdash to say the people have spoken, therefore you can’t go back. The people can speak again – why can’t we have another vote on it,” Robertson told the Observer. “We had a brilliant deal with Europe. We had an opt-out on ever-closer union, we weren’t in the single currency and we were not in Schengen [the EU’s visa-free travel area]. We had a perfect arrangement. We are now going to end up with one where, at the end of things, we won’t have a final say.''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/01/conservative-party-donor-calls-for-second-brexit-vote

[hoolahoop]

" Hoola, Some of us have other things to do on a Saturday afternoon. I replied to BST's post as soon as I could. Talking of waiting, I can't help thinking it will be a while before I get my apology from BST, what do you reckon? "

I thought if you were due one you would get one . Are you now beginning to regret your voting to Remain or do you feel vindicated as expose of cheating and lies even possible involvement of a foreign hostile government has been suggested ?

Incidentally , this is not an " initial slump " in the economy - it is far more than that and no- one on the Leave campaign ever suggested that as far as I can remember.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Surely an 'initial slump' means the first slump of many....so it looks like BB is expecting more slumps after all!

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, apology accepted. I wouldn't have asked for one if Hoola hadn't annoyed me with his interfering comment.

As for Brexit having a detrimental economic effect, I never said it really would because I didn't really know. I did, however, say I was concerned:

https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=261703.msg695682#msg695682

[hoolahoop]

BB don't be ridiculous this is a forum " interfering comment " indeed . It hasn't stopped you from wading into this thread from time to time when others have been talking now has it ? Stop trying to force arguments where none existed in the first place it was merely a harmless remark like many you have made throughout this topic . In fact I wasn't even talking to you.

" Hoola, Some of us have other things to do on a Saturday afternoon. I replied to BST's post as soon as I could. Talking of waiting, I can't help thinking it will be a while before I get my apology from BST, what do you reckon? "

"BST, apology accepted. I wouldn't have asked for one if Hoola hadn't annoyed me with his interfering comment. "

All the above because of this ( my comment )  :-

" I can't help thinking it will be a fair while to you get a reply  "

Jeez you've been bobbing in and out of this thread and people's conversations since it started almost 12 months ago .

[bpoolrover]

Just out of interest who isn't going to call this 2nd referendum you want? None of the main parties want a 2nd referendum so there is no hope it will happen

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
Only too happy to oblige if an apology is so important to you. Forgive me for misreading your comment on the General Election. I hadn't realised it was a genuine inquiry of my opinion, as you didn't respond d when I gave my opinion.

I don't really understand what your pension has to do with Brexite or the topic under discussion if I'm being honest
 We're talking specifically about the actual, confirmed, measurable and prolonged effect that the Brexiter vote is having on the UK economy (which I'm pleased to see you acknowledge). But a) there's little connection between the state of the UK economy and  the level of the UK stock market and  b)if the UK stock market was looking  dodgy, your pension can be invested anywhere in the world.

But anyway, we're making progress. I'm still struggling to see where the Brexiter side made it clear to voters that there would be an immediate economic hit after the vote but at least it's clear that you accept that it was inevitable and it has happened and is happening.

[Bentley Bullet]

Hoola, I always answer people who ask a sensible question that is worth spending time on answering. I'll also respond to people who post untruths about things I've said, especially when they are held in high regard and relied upon for factual accuracy like BST is.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, the pension part does play a part in this discussion because it was my reason why I voted remain.

[SydneyRover]

Hey Sproty, never say I dont give you a leg up or respect your views, here is a freebie, maybe a first on this thread, something to celebrate, a good news story, something that will bring a warm glow to everyones heart. People will remember this as the turning point, a point in time when the Brexit fairy tale delivered. There are critics but just ignore them and feel the love.

Last year, Britain exported £2.4bn worth of goods to the six African countries included in Ms May’s deal - just 0.7 per cent of the value of its exports to the EU and the rest of the world combined, which were worth £339bn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZAwoip5aY

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-trade-deal-africa-theresa-may-trip-post-brexit-eu-rollover-a8511871.html

Hey Sydney, interesting to see that an agriculturally backward Nation is planning to take advantage of Brexit and intends sending us such delicacies as burnt Goat Heads and GM Modified meat, a right set of scumbag scoundrels by all accounts!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-meat-banned-eu-australia-beef-liam-fox-dit-friends-of-the-earth-a8475006.html

Now't new, they've been getting away with sending us that Fosters Lager shite for years.

while apologies are being doled out I think mr bullet of bently owes the people of australia an apology for his offending comment above.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

Then you voted remain on a pretty serious misconception because there's no link between Brexit and your pension.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. Is this wrong then?

http://www.yourmoney.com/retirement/pension-savers-wary-brexit-average-pot-gone-since-referendum/

[BillyStubbsTears]

Is what wrong?

The claim that future pensioners are wary of Brexit or the statement that investments have gone up?

I don't know about the first one because I haven't gone round interviewing future pensioners. The second one is patently correct.

I've no idea whatsoever what either of the have to do with what we were talking about.

If you're pointing out that many pensioners are drawing a link between pensions and Brexit then jolly good for them although again I've no idea what point you are trying to make.

Hey. Here's a thought. Why don't YOU tell ME what you mean? Then I won't have to guess. And then you won't have to get upset when I guess wrong.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST.

This argument is going off course. The link I showed you was in answer to your claim that I have never previously accepted that Brexit would have a detrimental economic effect. The link shows that I did have concern for it. The reason why is irrelevant.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ok. So what on earth did you mean when you just posted that Your Money link with another one of your cryptic questions? Only, I'm not going to assume I know what you mean because clearly I get it wrong.

And yes. This argument IS going way off course isn't it.

[Glyn_Wigley]

BST.

This argument is going off course. The link I showed you was in answer to your claim that I have never previously accepted that Brexit would have a detrimental economic effect. The link shows that I did have concern for it. The reason why is irrelevant.

How does a two-month old link do that?

And it looked to me as an answer to BST saying that pensions and Brexit aren't linked, but now you're claiming it as an answer to something else entirely. Despite it being about pensions and nothing else.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. I posted that link in answer to your claim that there is no link between Brexit and my pension.

[Bentley Bullet]

Mr Wiggerly, I was referring to the link I posted in reply 2379.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.

This is very tiring but one last push.

And what does that article add to the discussion about whether there is any link between Brexit and your pension?

[Bentley Bullet]

It suggests that despite pre-vote warnings that pensions would be hit if we voted to leave, they didn't, and in fact, they increased considerably.

Of course, I can't say that the increase was because of Brexit, but I'd bet my starboard knacker that any decrease would have been used as more evidence of disaster by some of the Remainers.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Right.

So.

You said you voted Remain because of fear about your pension.

I said the two are unconnected.

You post a link to an article that supports my argument that they are unconnected with the line, "Is this wrong then?"

Can you see why I struggle to figure out what the f**k you are on about?

As for your obsession with what other people think, it's REALLY unhealthy. It's far better to engage with what they actually say rather than what you think they would say if they were really the person that you think they are. Do it this way and there's a chance that you might engage in a constructive discussion instead of convincing yourself that everyone is deceiving you.

[Bentley Bullet]

How dare you talk about my obsession with what other people think rather that what they actually say when you've just apologised to me for doing the exact same f**king thing?

Regarding pensions and Brexit, the two things may well be unconnected, but I was pointing out the reason why I and presumably many others were swayed to vote remain because of the forecasts of pensions taking a dive.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

Take a big deep breath and calm down.

I, apparently, misread one of your many cryptic posts and I misjudged what that post meant. I apologised for that.

You, frequently, with no evidence whatsoever, claim to know what people who disagree with you would think in hypothetical situations.

You see the qualitative difference?

Oh aye, and given the importance that you place on apologies, it's odd that you've never apologised for any of these unfounded accusations. But there you go.

Finally, I still don't have a scooby what you're on about regarding that Your Money article and your cryptic "is this wrong" comment. There's nothing whatsoever in that article about any forecasts of pensions diving as a result of Brexit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nice example here of a senior Govt minister choosing to play to the Brexit gallery by deliberately misinforming people.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45388557

Fox says that it's impossible to predict economic performance years in advance.

Which is right.

But that's not what the Treasury is doing. They are predicting the effect of no deal Brexit compared to the status quo.

What Fox is doing is making precisely the same mistake that I pointed out to BB yesterday. It's not about predicting the weather in 15 years time. It's about predicting whether it would, generally, be cooler if you moved miles to the north.

Of course Fox knows that. Because his job requires him to address these issues in detail.

But he chooses to misrepresent the issue and in doing so, he keeps people who are on his side about Brexit deliberately misinformed about the predictions that are being made by Govt.

And yet we're told it's the Remain side who are arrogantly condescending...