Brexit Negotiations

[wilts rover]

This is the link to the actual survey. A further link at the bottom of the page will take you  to the questions asked and the results. It was 5000 people spread across the country btw

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/08/01/britain-nation-brexit-extremists/

[BillyStubbsTears]

Idler. Yes. But you also need to accept that there ARE racists and xenophobes amongst the Leave supporters.

[idler]

I agree Billy but voting remain doesn't mean you can't also be one or the other. You can't tar everyone with the same brush.
I go on holiday and risk missing out on a vote. At Brexit I was in Rhodes so had already registered my postal vote. I spent a lot of time deliberating and by the time of the voting date felt actually closer to Europe than possibly before. The shootings in Paris and then the international between England and France at Wembley made me feel proud that we were a united front against terrorism and an affinity with the French nation.  The other side of this was the arrogance of Cameron, Osborne and Junkers. Their vision of the EU didn't match mine and I couldn't see them listening to any other views.

[hoolahoop]

I agree Billy but voting remain doesn't mean you can't also be one or the other. You can't tar everyone with the same brush.
I go on holiday and risk missing out on a vote. At Brexit I was in Rhodes so had already registered my postal vote. I spent a lot of time deliberating and by the time of the voting date felt actually closer to Europe than possibly before. The shootings in Paris and then the international between England and France at Wembley made me feel proud that we were a united front against terrorism and an affinity with the French nation.  The other side of this was the arrogance of Cameron, Osborne and Junkers. Their vision of the EU didn't match mine and I couldn't see them listening to any other views.

Have you regretted your vote to leave since idler based on those former strong reasons to be a Europhile and those latter feelings which influenced your vote i.e. the 3 knobheads you mentioned ; who ironically enough will ALL be finished in politics within 5 years ?

Brexit will adversely affect us for decades long after these 3 are dead, buried and largely forgotten.

[SydneyRover]

I agree Billy but voting remain doesn't mean you can't also be one or the other. You can't tar everyone with the same brush.
I go on holiday and risk missing out on a vote. At Brexit I was in Rhodes so had already registered my postal vote. I spent a lot of time deliberating and by the time of the voting date felt actually closer to Europe than possibly before. The shootings in Paris and then the international between England and France at Wembley made me feel proud that we were a united front against terrorism and an affinity with the French nation.  The other side of this was the arrogance of Cameron, Osborne and Junkers. Their vision of the EU didn't match mine and I couldn't see them listening to any other views.

Have you regretted your vote to leave since idler based on those former strong reasons to be a Europhile and those latter











feelings which influenced your vote i.e. the 3 knobheads you mentioned ; who ironically enough will ALL be finished in politics within 5 years ?

Brexit will adversely affect us for decades long after these 3 are dead, buried and largely forgotten.

Good question Hoola, in fact it would be good to hear the views of anyone that has changed their mind since the vote, either way.

[hoolahoop]

I agree Billy but voting remain doesn't mean you can't also be one or the other. You can't tar everyone with the same brush.
I go on holiday and risk missing out on a vote. At Brexit I was in Rhodes so had already registered my postal vote. I spent a lot of time deliberating and by the time of the voting date felt actually closer to Europe than possibly before. The shootings in Paris and then the international between England and France at Wembley made me feel proud that we were a united front against terrorism and an affinity with the French nation.  The other side of this was the arrogance of Cameron, Osborne and Junkers. Their vision of the EU didn't match mine and I couldn't see them listening to any other views.

Have you regretted your vote to leave since idler based on those former strong reasons to be a Europhile and those latter











feelings which influenced your vote i.e. the 3 knobheads you mentioned ; who ironically enough will ALL be finished in politics within 5 years ?

Brexit will adversely affect us for decades long after these 3 are dead, buried and largely forgotten.

Good question Hoola, in fact it would be good to hear the views of anyone that has changed their mind since the vote, either way.

There will be millions but  it will take a huge swing in public opinion to save the country from what is looking inevitable. People have got to get off their arses and make themselves heard otherwise all is lost .

The future well- being of our country is at stake

[hoolahoop]

Interesting survey by experts Sydney :-

A new report from the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism reveals that UK press coverage in the weeks leading up to the EU Referendum was dominated by pro-Leave articles. The report, UK press coverage of the EU Referendum, examines how the UK press covered the EU Referendum story, and looks at what the key arguments, spokespeople, tone of articles and areas of focus were in the weeks leading up to the nationwide vote.Produced in partnership with media insight specialists PRIME Research, the report includes analysis of two days of press coverage each week for the London editions of nine national newspapers over the four months of the campaign. Dr David Levy, Director of the Reuters Institute and one of the report’s authors says: “The research reveals a picture of highly polarised press coverage, reliant on a narrow range of voices, and where coverage was more focused on personalities than the more complex issues at stake. In that sense, in spite of some notable exceptions, the press was generally better at reinforcing the views of decided voters than in giving undecided voters, seeking broad facts and high-quality information, the evidence to make up their own minds.” Key findings from the report include: A dominant pro-Leave bias Of the articles focused on the referendum, 41% were pro-Leave, while 27% were pro-Remain, creating a dominant pro-Leave presence. (See Fig 4.1) After factoring in the reach of different newspapers, the pro-Brexit dominance is further accentuated, with 48% of all referendum-focused articles pro-Leave and just 22% pro-Remain. Six out of the nine newspapers followed this pro-Leave dominance, with the strongest positions in the Daily Express, followed by the Daily Mail and the Sun. The Daily Mirror had the highest share of pro-Remain articles, followed by the Guardian and the Financial Times A focus on the economy – from both sides The economy was the most cited referendum issue covered in articles, followed by sovereignty and migration. (See Fig. 5.3) The economy was cited in both pro-Leave and Remain articles, but sovereignty and migration skewed heavily to pro-Leave articles. Enough of experts? Almost half of spokespeople cited in articles were either UK politicians or campaign representatives, while analysts/experts made up 11% of spokespeople cited, and academics just 2%. Foreign politicians made up 5% of spokespeople cited. (See Fig. 6.1) Of the small number of academics quoted, one, Professor Patrick Minford, heavily associated with the Leave campaign, accounted for a fifth of all quotes on our sample days. Blue on blue 64% of UK politicians cited in articles were Conservative, and 17% Labour. (See Fig 6.3) The most quoted politicians during the campaign period were former PM David Cameron (quoted in approximately 14% of articles) and Boris Johnson (10%). Current PM Theresa May kept a relatively low profile as the eleventh most cited politician. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn was the eighth most cited politician, quoted in just 3% of articles. This trend was true even in the left-leaning press; he was quoted in 3-4% of articles in The Guardian and Mirror, about a third as many times as David Cameron or Boris Johnson. The report finds marked differences in tone between the Leave and Remain arguments in the press. While the pro-Remain articles focused largely on the single issue of the economy, they adopted a generally very negative tone, apparently reluctant to use positive language, and gave pessimistic forecasts of a pro-Brexit future. In contrast, pro-Leave articles adopted a more positive tone, balancing criticism of the status quo with hopeful messages for a pro-Brexit future. Pro-Leave articles did play to fears, notably around migration and sovereignty, but their future-oriented messages were more optimistic. Diego Bironzo, Account Director at PRIME Research and one of the report’s authors says: “The granular topic analysis performed for this study shows that the winning campaign adopted a broader range of topics and tones. The Leave camp’s more varied and often emotive messaging not only proved effective in gaining media traction: ultimately, by approaching different issues (such as controlling migration, regaining sovereignty, using EU budget contributions for the UK) at different times, it resonated with different news audiences.” Read the report, and find a full press release with images here View a presentation of the key findings from the launch event held at the European Parliament Offices UK on the 20th September 2016.

I apologise for posting this in full but I think it would risk being overlooked otherwise .

[SydneyRover]

Thanks Hoola, it just goes to show how valuable truly independent media really is as evidenced by any tin pot dictator as one of the first things to go is media freedom.

[idler]

I agree Billy but voting remain doesn't mean you can't also be one or the other. You can't tar everyone with the same brush.
I go on holiday and risk missing out on a vote. At Brexit I was in Rhodes so had already registered my postal vote. I spent a lot of time deliberating and by the time of the voting date felt actually closer to Europe than possibly before. The shootings in Paris and then the international between England and France at Wembley made me feel proud that we were a united front against terrorism and an affinity with the French nation.  The other side of this was the arrogance of Cameron, Osborne and Junkers. Their vision of the EU didn't match mine and I couldn't see them listening to any other views.

Have you regretted your vote to leave since idler based on those former strong reasons to be a Europhile and those latter feelings which influenced your vote i.e. the 3 knobheads you mentioned ; who ironically enough will ALL be finished in politics within 5 years ?

Brexit will adversely affect us for decades long after these 3 are dead, buried and largely forgotten.

I reluctantly voted leave because I didn't like the way that the EU was going. Maybe the UK leaving might change the EU to something more like my idea of what it should be. I didn't expect the omnishambles that it has become involving politicians of all parties. When I cast my postal vote it looked like a majority to remain but enough leavers to maybe influence MEPs somewhat.
What we don't know of course is how we were to be treated had we voted remain. Would we have been punished for even having the referendum to dissuade others from going down that route?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Is there a charity to help knackered old MPs who have lost their marbles?

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/12/23/little-red-white-and-blue-riding-hood-a-topical-christmas-story/

f**k me sideways...

[idler]

I don't know how anybody in their right mind can see any value in those words to anyone of any persuasion.  April 1st might have been the right date to release this.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And yet...

There’s no less hard intellectual content in that piece than in anything else I’ve every read about the so called benefits of Brexit.

[hoolahoop]

Is there a charity to help knackered old MPs who have lost their marbles?

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/12/23/little-red-white-and-blue-riding-hood-a-topical-christmas-story/

f**k me sideways...

That is f**king awful there is summat wrong with that t**t seriously wrong. " EU The big bad wolf " indeed - he and his foolish buddies need to grow up pronto . To think he once ran for the leadership of these pillocks !!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Dear God Almighty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42527750

I thought we were supposed to saving millions from leaving the EU so that we could fund things like this properly?

[tommy toes]

Dear God Almighty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42527750

I thought we were supposed to saving millions from leaving the EU so that we could fund things like this properly?

Oh I don't know. It could lead to an up to date version of Dad's Army.
Private Walker could make a fortune on the black market. Godfrey's sister Dolly could open a tea shop on the border while Jones runs around shouting 'Don't panic those Jerries don't like it up em now we've Brexiterered and Sgt Wilson when asked about Brexit sez 'Do you think that's wise' as Cpt Mainwaring berates Pike as a 'Stupid Boy' for believing all the guff the Brexiteers fed him.

[hoolahoop]

Dear God Almighty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42527750

I thought we were supposed to saving millions from leaving the EU so that we could fund things like this properly?

It's getting beyond ridiculous now .

[wilts rover]

Dear God Almighty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42527750

I thought we were supposed to saving millions from leaving the EU so that we could fund things like this properly?

It's getting beyond ridiculous now .

Oh no its not, there's a lot more ridiculous yet to come believe me! For a start all these countries queing up for new trade deals to replace the ones we are about to loose....

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fox-nodeal-ministers_uk_5a3bc79ae4b06d1621b2589c

[BillyStubbsTears]

I think I may have spotted why the EU negiators are playing hardball against us trying to implement “The Will of the People”.

https://mobile.twitter.com/bopanc/status/948497516630298625/photo/1

[wilts rover]

I think I may have spotted why the EU negiators are playing hardball against us trying to implement “The Will of the People”.

https://mobile.twitter.com/bopanc/status/948497516630298625/photo/1

I believe it's called the 'having your cake and eating it strategy'.

[RedJ]

My friend once told me a driving instructor he knew told him the best way to deal with the 'magic roundabout' in Swindon was to close your eyes, put your foot down and pray.

That's effectively what we're doing with this at the moment.

[aidanstu]

Up until 2013 the UK has been a net contributor to the EU budget in 39 out of its 40 years of membership (the exception being 1975), contributing a total of £401bn in real terms gross, and £134bn net of receipts and the budget rebate. The UK has received an abatement, or rebate, on its budget contribution since 1984, worth £3.2bn in 2012 and £103bn (in real terms) since it was first agreed.

The pound being stronger than the euro has repeatedly led to cheaper imports and difficulty exporting which has contributed to a decline in industry in this country.

I really can't see how the EU has benefited Britain at all; if anybody is in doubt look out of your window and ask yourself what has improved since our membership commenced.

I personally can't wait for us to leave, particularly with progress being managed by a labour government. 

[Muttley]

Up until 2013 the UK has been a net contributor to the EU budget in 39 out of its 40 years of membership (the exception being 1975), contributing a total of £401bn in real terms gross, and £134bn net of receipts and the budget rebate. The UK has received an abatement, or rebate, on its budget contribution since 1984, worth £3.2bn in 2012 and £103bn (in real terms) since it was first agreed.

The pound being stronger than the euro has repeatedly led to cheaper imports and difficulty exporting which has contributed to a decline in industry in this country.

I really can't see how the EU has benefited Britain at all; if anybody is in doubt look out of your window and ask yourself what has improved since our membership commenced.

I personally can't wait for us to leave, particularly with progress being managed by a labour government. 

I looked out of my window but it's a bit too dark to see anything so I thought I'd do a bit of desk based research (aka googling).

Here's how the Yorkshire & Humber region benefitted from EU funding from 2007-2013:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/511951/Beneficary_List-_Feb_2016.pdf

Not to mention the fact that we've had unrestricted to the access to the world's largest trading bloc - how much is that worth to UK in sales/profits that they wouldn't otherwise have made?

[aidanstu]

Up until 2013 the UK has been a net contributor to the EU budget in 39 out of its 40 years of membership (the exception being 1975), contributing a total of £401bn in real terms gross, and £134bn net of receipts and the budget rebate. The UK has received an abatement, or rebate, on its budget contribution since 1984, worth £3.2bn in 2012 and £103bn (in real terms) since it was first agreed.

The pound being stronger than the euro has repeatedly led to cheaper imports and difficulty exporting which has contributed to a decline in industry in this country.

I really can't see how the EU has benefited Britain at all; if anybody is in doubt look out of your window and ask yourself what has improved since our membership commenced.

I personally can't wait for us to leave, particularly with progress being managed by a labour government. 

I looked out of my window but it's a bit too dark to see anything so I thought I'd do a bit of desk based research (aka googling).

Here's how the Yorkshire & Humber region benefitted from EU funding from 2007-2013:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/511951/Beneficary_List-_Feb_2016.pdf

Not to mention the fact that we've had unrestricted to the access to the world's largest trading bloc - how much is that worth to UK in sales/profits that they wouldn't otherwise have made?

The fact it is so dark outside is probably as a result of your local authority spending cuts and lack of street lighting brought on by the amount of national debt we have accrued.

EU funding? we are a net contributor. You wouldn't put £100 in a bandit with the hope of getting £10 out, with no guarantee and consider yourself a winner would you? why would you take that approach with the EU?

Also  do you have any idea how much the region has contributed the EU in the same period?

[hoolahoop]

I think I may have spotted why the EU negiators are playing hardball against us trying to implement “The Will of the People”.

https://mobile.twitter.com/bopanc/status/948497516630298625/photo/1

No wonder we are a confused nation. When Ken Clarke surmised that Brexit reminded him of Alice dropping down the hole  into  Wonderland ; it's not hard to see what he was envisaging in Brexit . It's full of weird ideas, muddled wishful thinking and he certainly wasn't joking when he thought of this whole exercise as some form of ' Mad Hatter's tea party ' . The whole thing is full of mad contradictions, ideas and dreams of an end result that is so   far from becoming a reality it's a joke .

We are about to embark on a second set of negotiations when those thorniest issues from the first set have yet to be resolved .
Now we want everything we want from some mysterious bespoke deal with scant regard for the future well- being of our country and its citizens and apparently for the other EU27 and tgeir citizens. There is no ' cake and eat it ' , there are  no simplistic resolutions to both the N.Ireland and Gibraltar issues or any of the economic/social desires of the lunatics running this nonsense. There are so many hurdles yet we still persist to pick at the running sore that is Brexit in some vainglorious  hope that " it will all work out in the end ".

What really worries me is when I read article after article in both the Express and Mail already praising this government for pulling down the trousers of the EU27 in Phase 1.  It's as if they think their  readership have all taken some form of date rape drug and perhaps they ( the owners/editors) know that they can now peddle any myth in the knowledge that it will be swallowed by the people of this country . Perhaps they are right, maybe I am now an " enemy of the people " too and I should have bought into all the myths surrounding Brexit by now .
However , perhaps I and many like me are destined to be in a separate part of thus divided nation for ever  because we  refuse to endorse the ludicrous ideas or the vision espoused by the numpties running this shitshow .

I fear there are yet more weird ideas and results to come out of this mess as our leaders throw our country to the wolves and we are all invited to throw ourselves off some cliff edge or other screaming - " for Britain and St. George. " God help us all especially the poor, homeless,  weak and disabled  !

[Donnywolf]

You are right in all that.

Its become a complete mess / joke and I can see even more and more mess as "we" try to get the best for us and they try to ensure we get the worst deal(s) to deter any other Countries who might want to jump ship

At the end of the day (and I could be wildly wrong) it will go on till we have a "deal" after which there will be either a public outcry or the Remainer MPs and Lords will demand a vote on the deal (or both of course) and we will kick it out (democratically of course) and then we will stay in the EU and all wonder what the hell was that all about and why did we waste all that time and billions and billions of words on that

Note : I recently had a Post called "the incoherent ramblings of a complete Buffoon" and that was on Football. I thought my view was quite lucid , easy to understand and was just a matter of opinion.

In this I hope to have been coherent and lucid and I accept my "conclusion" which is a guess not even an opinion might be wildly inaccurate. I just hope it is not

[SydneyRover]

Up until 2013 the UK has been a net contributor to the EU budget in 39 out of its 40 years of membership (the exception being 1975), contributing a total of £401bn in real terms gross, and £134bn net of receipts and the budget rebate. The UK has received an abatement, or rebate, on its budget contribution since 1984, worth £3.2bn in 2012 and £103bn (in real terms) since it was first agreed.

The pound being stronger than the euro has repeatedly led to cheaper imports and difficulty exporting which has contributed to a decline in industry in this country.

I really can't see how the EU has benefited Britain at all; if anybody is in doubt look out of your window and ask yourself what has improved since our membership commenced.

I personally can't wait for us to leave, particularly with progress being managed by a labour government. 

I looked out of my window but it's a bit too dark to see anything so I thought I'd do a bit of desk based research (aka googling).

Here's how the Yorkshire & Humber region benefitted from EU funding from 2007-2013:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/511951/Beneficary_List-_Feb_2016.pdf

Not to mention the fact that we've had unrestricted to the access to the world's largest trading bloc - how much is that worth to UK in sales/profits that they wouldn't otherwise have made?

The fact it is so dark outside is probably as a result of your local authority spending cuts and lack of street lighting brought on by the amount of national debt we have accrued.

EU funding? we are a net contributor. You wouldn't put £100 in a bandit with the hope of getting £10 out, with no guarantee and consider yourself a winner would you? why would you take that approach with the EU?

Also  do you have any idea how much the region has contributed the EU in the same period?

This link should put some meat on the bones of payments and returns to the EU. It is difficult to look at figut=res in isolation and say we didn't get this but we paid that. The UK economy is one of the largest therefore you would imagine we pay more, but the gains of being part of the wealthiest trading block in the world has many advantages.
http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/67030/1/Begg_EU%20budget.pdf

[BillyStubbsTears]

So the net payment works out at about the price of a Starbucks coffee per person per week. And that’s before you consider the benefits that we get from free and unfettered trade with the largest trading bloc in the history of mankind.

[aidanstu]

So the net payment works out at about the price of a Starbucks coffee per person per week. And that’s before you consider the benefits that we get from free and unfettered trade with the largest trading bloc in the history of mankind.

Trading with a strong pound against a weak euro, ie difficult to export and cheaper to import.  Again it is one of the reasons we have no manufacturing industry in the U.K. and another reason to be out the eu.

[bpoolrover]

Do you think it will make much difference to the average person if we are in or out of the eu? I was thinking back to when labour were in power other day and to be honest it's no different from now, apart from a few quid either way I'm not sure it makes any difference

[aidanstu]

Do you think it will make much difference to the average person if we are in or out of the eu? I was thinking back to when labour were in power other day and to be honest it's no different from now, apart from a few quid either way I'm not sure it makes any difference

Which labour government are you referring to?