Brexit Negotiations

[bobjimwilly]

 

[hoolahoop]

You couldn't make this clusterf**k up could you what a bloody mess !

[RedJ]

And yet, people don't seem to be absolutely livid that they've been completely deceived...

[hoolahoop]

And yet, people don't seem to be absolutely livid that they've been completely deceived...

It's not a surprise when the BBC don't give coverage to the 2 marches that the anti- Brexit campaigns did over the weekend . One of them was on Satdi only 3 miles from the Salford studios ! MSM also couldn't even be bothered to take the piss out of them they were busy de- constructing Corbyn and the Labour Party as were the BBC  - all carefully orchestrated for in time for the May Local elections and to cover up Phase 2 inadequacies.

They have played a blinder, it's straight out of the Neo - Con handbook. They just won't let it drop.

Just what has happened to the BBC though ??

[selby]

  They may have changed sides Hoola, in exchange for leaving them alone oa self employment and Tax? or just keep the "names" out of it.

[Not Now Kato]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

[hoolahoop]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

[idler]

Steve, I think that most detractors would say that at times over the years it has been corrupt,dysfunctional and unwieldy rather than evil.

[hoolahoop]

Steve, I think that most detractors would say that at times over the years it has been corrupt,dysfunctional and unwieldy rather than evil.

I think you're right a bit like our own Government , it might have helped if we had tried to change some of that rather than ignoring that fact - check out what our MEPs haven't been up to over the last 15  - 20 years. Half the time they couldn't even be bothered to attend :

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-meps-attend-the-fewest-european-parliament-votes-of-any-party-in-the-eus-28-countries-10316962.html&ved=2ahUKEwickrOcoqXaAhVFzqQKHeybCdoQFjAAegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw0qv1t8R5xFZLtVD-FygW6U

[Copps is Magic]

What a time to break away and make your own trade arrangements amidst an international trade war.

[Sprotyrover]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacrceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

We better get a move on before you have a heart attack

[Not Now Kato]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacrceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

We better get a move on before you have a heart attack

So which option would YOU choose Sproty? And how would YOU make it work?
 
If we can't come to an agreement with the EU and we end up with a hard BREXIT we've still go to pick one of those options - and somehow make it work....

[Sprotyrover]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacrceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

We better get a move on before you have a heart attack

So which option would YOU choose Sproty? And how would YOU make it work?
 
If we can't come to an agreement with the EU and we end up with a hard BREXIT we've still go to pick one of those options - and somehow make it work....

Where there is no way we will make one! (Hannibal at the foot of the Alps)

[hoolahoop]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacrceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

We better get a move on before you have a heart attack

Chilled fella don't worry - have a lot invested in all this with my 20 year old going away for a year with a view to living and working in the EU . I just don't want her to be one of the millions ( 5, 000,000 ) whose lives will be made difficult because they work here or we work there. The cost of flights will go up , travel insurance will go up ( EHIC cards no longer valid ) and of course adverse currency fluctuations have not been to the benefit of our citizens finally there's the spectre of visas potentially. Incidentally 80 % of our people living and working in the 27 are of working age contrary to the impression given that they are all retired.
There's a veritable shitstorm looming and soon we will be dragged into the eye of it .

Sproty you sound like some old git that believes nothing will change and we will all be singing " Rule Britannia " in Dr. Liam Fox's choir . Please tell me you don't think like that as im still waiting for you to tell us all about the Brexit " dividend " - you know the reality of all that is going to be well in post- Brexit Britain ?

[Not Now Kato]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacrceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

We better get a move on before you have a heart attack

So which option would YOU choose Sproty? And how would YOU make it work?
 
If we can't come to an agreement with the EU and we end up with a hard BREXIT we've still go to pick one of those options - and somehow make it work....

Where there is no way we will make one! (Hannibal at the foot of the Alps)

Pity Hannibal is dead, we don't have 37 Elephants and that we're looking across 21 miles of water without a mountain in sight then Sproty.
 
I just love the 'leavers' approach to all this - "It'll be all right on the night" without a clue as to WHAT will be all right and HOW we can make it all right. Somebody else will sort it out, (didn't you think about any of these issues before you voted?); yer right!
 
But don't worry, in spite of the Ireland and Gibraltar issues we're going to give £350 Million a week to the NHS and send all these 'bloody foriners' home.  Oh, and we're taking back control of something we already had control over.  Isn't that what you leavers voted for?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacrceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

We better get a move on before you have a heart attack

So which option would YOU choose Sproty? And how would YOU make it work?
 
If we can't come to an agreement with the EU and we end up with a hard BREXIT we've still go to pick one of those options - and somehow make it work....

Where there is no way we will make one! (Hannibal at the foot of the Alps)

Genius! Let’s get exports over the Irish border on battle-hardened elephants!

Anybody got Boris’s phone number?

[hoolahoop]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacrceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

We better get a move on before you have a heart attack

So which option would YOU choose Sproty? And how would YOU make it work?
 
If we can't come to an agreement with the EU and we end up with a hard BREXIT we've still go to pick one of those options - and somehow make it work....

Where there is no way we will make one! (Hannibal at the foot of the Alps)

Ah the cliff edge we have all been told about it is then

[hoolahoop]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacrceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

We better get a move on before you have a heart attack

So which option would YOU choose Sproty? And how would YOU make it work?
 
If we can't come to an agreement with the EU and we end up with a hard BREXIT we've still go to pick one of those options - and somehow make it work....

Where there is no way we will make one! (Hannibal at the foot of the Alps)

Genius! Let’s get exports over the Irish border on battle-hardened elephants!

Anybody got Boris’s phone number?

Hannibal was smart , now Sproty thinks the fools in charge of this clusterf**k can be compared to probably one if not THE greatest generals of all time. I've heard it all now !! Pmsl

[wilts rover]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacrceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

We better get a move on before you have a heart attack

So which option would YOU choose Sproty? And how would YOU make it work?
 
If we can't come to an agreement with the EU and we end up with a hard BREXIT we've still go to pick one of those options - and somehow make it work....

Where there is no way we will make one! (Hannibal at the foot of the Alps)

Genius! Let’s get exports over the Irish border on battle-hardened elephants!

Anybody got Boris’s phone number?

I can't believe you have got that so wrong Billy! Of course they are not going to use elephants to transport goods across the border, how stupid and slow would that be, they are going to be used to patrol the border. Put cameras on their trunks and they can lift them up in the air so you can see a good way - and there is no way you could call an elephant a hard border. Of course they wouldn't be needed all the time, only when its foggy, dark, windy or raining and the blimps cant fly (so just most of the time).

Genius.

[Sprotyrover]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacrceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

We better get a move on before you have a heart attack

Chilled fella don't worry - have a lot invested in all this with my 20 year old going away for a year with a view to living and working in the EU . I just don't want her to be one of the millions ( 5, 000,000 ) whose lives will be made difficult because they work here or we work there. The cost of flights will go up , travel insurance will go up ( EHIC cards no longer valid ) and of course adverse currency fluctuations have not been to the benefit of our citizens finally there's the spectre of visas potentially. Incidentally 80 % of our people living and working in the 27 are of working age contrary to the impression given that they are all retired.
There's a veritable shitstorm looming and soon we will be dragged into the eye of it .

Sproty you sound like some old git that believes nothing will change and we will all be singing " Rule Britannia " in Dr. Liam Fox's choir . Please tell me you don't think like that as im still waiting for you to tell us all about the Brexit " dividend " - you know the reality of all that is going to be well in post- Brexit Britain ?

Hoola

How does your mind work, I am willing to chance the jump off of beachy  head for the long term protection of my country, I don't care about the short term economic hit, mark my words in 10 years time there will be extreme Govt sin Italy Germany and  France , because they can't Secure the southern border.
We will be far better off and I don't give a dam if we have another million migrants in the country, they will be the ones we want, not the ones dumped on us by failed Policies in other Eu states.

You on the other hand a totally against change , you are deeply entrenched in your Luddite beliefs that this Brexit will end in distater and as you freely admit your own self interest.

[MachoMadness]

Who are the migrants we want? The ones propping up the NHS, who are currently f**king off in high numbers? What about the ones who work in the fields, propping up the farming industry? Who's going to replace them?

By the way, it's been pointed out many times that we CAN refuse immigrants if we want to. Any EU state can refuse anyone right of residence if we deem them to be a burden on the member state. Look it up - its written down in EU law and everything! We're already letting in the ones we want. So why are we jumping off the beachhead again?

[hoolahoop]

Meanwhile, back on the Irish Question

Look, there are only 5 options

1. A hard border between the North and South.
2. A hard border between the North and the UK.
3. A technology border between the North and South
4. No border between the North and South, just turn a blind eye to everything
5. The UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market


Come on Leaver Negotiators, it can't be that hard. Pick one.

I can't understand why this is taking so long, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with any of those options?...............
 

(1) Impossible as breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
(2) Unacrceptable to both the UK and especially the DUP - breaches red lines
(3) Unworkable - in practise breaches WTO Regulations .
(4) Unworkable - again breaches WTO rules and encourages smuggling , gunmen and a return to pre GFA days.
(5) Workable - and the existing system  - financially in the interests of all parties.

ONLY (5) works but we have made it clear we no longer want to be in hock to the evil empire that is the ECJ. 

We better get a move on before you have a heart attack

Chilled fella don't worry - have a lot invested in all this with my 20 year old going away for a year with a view to living and working in the EU . I just don't want her to be one of the millions ( 5, 000,000 ) whose lives will be made difficult because they work here or we work there. The cost of flights will go up , travel insurance will go up ( EHIC cards no longer valid ) and of course adverse currency fluctuations have not been to the benefit of our citizens finally there's the spectre of visas potentially. Incidentally 80 % of our people living and working in the 27 are of working age contrary to the impression given that they are all retired.
There's a veritable shitstorm looming and soon we will be dragged into the eye of it .

Sproty you sound like some old git that believes nothing will change and we will all be singing " Rule Britannia " in Dr. Liam Fox's choir . Please tell me you don't think like that as im still waiting for you to tell us all about the Brexit " dividend " - you know the reality of all that is going to be well in post- Brexit Britain ?

Hoola

How does your mind work, I am willing to chance the jump off of beach head for the long term protection of my country, I don't care about the short term economic hit, mark my words in 10 years time there will be extreme Govt sin Italy Germany and  France , because they can't Secure the southern border.
We will be far better off and I don't give a dam if we have another million migrants in the country, they will be the ones we want, not the ones dumped on us by failed Policies in other Eu states.

You on the other hand a totally against change , you are deeply entrenched in your Luddite beliefs that this Brexit will end in distater and as you freely admit your own self interest.

My mind ? Pot and kettle you are an utter jerk Sproty, unlike you my family aren't afraid of adventure - we couldn't be further from your crazy assertion that we are Luddites. I'm certainly not having lived, travelled or worked in over 30 countries at the last count and yes numpty we are ALL driven by self- interest  - I want a country that is outward looking , economically strong and somewhere to be proud to live in for the younger members of my family especially. My whole life has been about change and managing it.

You on the other hand want to chain  my family to you in your leap of faith over the edge of your cliff .....and I have the problem of being motivated by self- interest. The only dinosaur here is you.

You still haven't told me what it is we are all jumping off into and of course you haven't explained to me why that choice wasn't in your self- interest too ? Still you want to piss everyone's futures away regardless of the consequences.

As a final point don't throw the influx of North Africans as your reason for your ' leap of faith' - we've all seen the Farage poster of snaking non- Europeans coming to ravage us . Finally we all know too that decent people forced that to be dropped and you well know that we aren't part of Schengen. " Long-term protection of my country " my arse.

[hoolahoop]

Who are the migrants we want? The ones propping up the NHS, who are currently f**king off in high numbers? What about the ones who work in the fields, propping up the farming industry? Who's going to replace them?

By the way, it's been pointed out many times that we CAN refuse immigrants if we want to. Any EU state can refuse anyone right of residence if we deem them to be a burden on the member state. Look it up - its written down in EU law and everything! We're already letting in the ones we want. So why are we jumping off the beachhead again?

Of course we could / can but don't let that fact get in the way of Sproty's false arguments. We had Sovereignty and gilt-edge controls of our borders. 

[Bentley Bullet]

Am I right in saying that the UK refuses only a tiny fraction of EU nationals who want to come here because it has to have very good grounds to do so, and in the case of criminality, for example, a conviction even for a serious crime is not good enough unless the individual poses a current risk?

[hoolahoop]

Am I right in saying that the UK refuses only a tiny fraction of EU nationals who want to come here because it has to have very good grounds to do so, and in the case of criminality, for example, a conviction even for a serious crime is not good enough unless the individual poses a current risk?

But, unlike EU members in the Schengen Area, the UK does have full control of its borders. Officials carry out security-related checks on anyone, including EU nationals, entering the UK.

Under EU law (Art. 27), the UK has the right to refuse admission to any EU citizen on the grounds of “public policy, public health or public security”. Proportionality applies, which means previous criminal convictions do not in themselves constitute grounds for refusal. However, those who “commit serious or persistent crimes” and are seen as a “genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat” can be refused entry to the UK.

[Bentley Bullet]

Hoolahoop, how does all that bullshit apply as 'a current risk'?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

I don’t know where you were educated but at my school I had a choleric English teacher who would have bawled me out until my ears bled if I hadn’t realised that “genuine, present...serious threat” was something close to a synonym for “current risk”.

[Bentley Bullet]

So Billy. Your Daughter meets a boy who hasn't raped anyone for ten years. Would you welcome him in your family and take him for a pint at your local?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Apologies. I mis-read your post. Out of interest, are there examples of rapists being allowed into the country?

[MachoMadness]

There's a difference between right of residence and right to enter (which admittedly wasn't clear in my post). So any EU worker can come here for up to 3 months with no formalities aside from a passport if they're looking for work, unless they've got some bad form, as Hoola said. After that we have every right to refuse them permanent residence if we think they'll be a financial burden on the state. The actual law is as below:

"For stays of over three months: the right of residence is subject to certain conditions. EU citizens and their family members — if not working — must have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. Union citizens do not need residence permits, although Member States may require them to register with the authorities. Family members of Union citizens who are not nationals of a Member State must apply for a residence permit, valid for the duration of their stay or a five-year period."

"Sufficient resources" is quite vague, because what that term means is up to us - or any EU member state. We can deny and revoke existing residence permits if we think the applicant isn't going to contribute. I always hear from Leavers that they don't mind immigrants coming here looking for work - they're the ones we want, as Sproty put it. It's the ones who come over here and sit on benefits and use the NHS for years on end who are the problem. If those immigrants are such a problem - and all data you'll find suggests they're a tiny, tiny minority to begin with - we already have the power to turf them out under existing EU law! So again, why are we jumping off the beachhead to get something we already had all along?