Brexit Negotiations

[SydneyRover]

Meanwhile over in 21st century Europe....Barnier published a piece in the newspapers explaining why May's proposals were unacceptable. The Chequers' deal is dead before it even got going, so where do we go from here?

http://politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2018/08/03/barnier-has-finally-killed-chequers-and-with-it-the-uk-gover

''To be fair to May, it is possible that she did not hear EU leaders when they told her repeatedly for two years that the UK could not implement one freedom of the single market (goods) without implementing the other three (services, capital and people). But that never referred to a specific UK plan. Now it does. And May has no plan B.''

As I said the other day, chaos will bring down the government which will force an election, Corbyn will be deposed if he doesnt change his stance on Brexit.

[bpoolrover]

I take it you want him to change it to your way o thinking?

[hoolahoop]

Meanwhile over in 21st century Europe....Barnier published a piece in the newspapers explaining why May's proposals were unacceptable. The Chequers' deal is dead before it even got going, so where do we go from here?

http://politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2018/08/03/barnier-has-finally-killed-chequers-and-with-it-the-uk-gover

Indeed where to now , we are left with a full reversal against the " will " of the people which appears to be no longer the " will " of the people or to jump off that cliff to deliver on the " will " of the people that has to be delivered whatever the circumstances.
I understand we are also in for quite a few arguments once again fully in the WTO - yep I've heard about all those great advantages too. We already have countries queuing up to disagree about both quotas and tariffs.

[Glyn_Wigley]

This is what a UK ex-EU negotiator has tweeted. Sums it up, really:

"Brexiters believe there’s an ideologically-driven conspiracy that means that economists, trade & EU experts, lawyers, industry assocs, unions, companies, judges, HMT, the Bank of England, Scotland, the Irish, diplomats, EU27 & UKGov itself are all lying about its consequences

Sure, one, or even several of those groups may be mistaken, or they may be playing politics (I’m looking at you UKGov), but really, all of them?

As with climate change deniers, they think that it is more plausible that the vast majority of experts in their fields, who rely on their reputations and credibility for their careers, are all conspiring to lie, than it is that they may have a point.

It’s more plausible that companies and industry associations would simply lie about the dangers they face out of ideological loyalty to the EU, rather than as a result of in-depth studies, analysis and advise as to Brexit’s consequences

More plausible that the Dutch, German and Belgian governments are hiring thousands of customs staff and other EU countries are spending millions on preparations as part of project fear than because they’ve analysed the possible outcomes and decided they’ll be needed.

That hundreds of civil servants and Bank of England staff at every level have colluded to falsify their projections, without any paper trail or leaks, because they love the EU and will do anything to protect it.

It’s now the norm for people to tell people who’ve spent years working in their fields that they’re lying because a handful of crackpots in the ERG, a couple of RW newspaper editors, Patrick Minford, and a bloke down the Dog and Duck say they know better

Brexit is the new climate change denial."

https://twitter.com/GuitarMoog/status/1025910694984785921

[hoolahoop]

There's more coming out by the minute  - we don't have long to save our country from those that would bleed it dry. The stuff coming out of the BBC is miles away from reporting - they are blatantly steering away from this stuff.

A right wing controlled Government dancing to the tune of outside agencies and fully supportedbb by the MSM and the public broadcaster The Brexit Bullshitting Corporation ably assisted by the Opposition .
We are fecked

[SydneyRover]

There is more coming out by the minute Hoola and the latest YouGov poll shows that the tide is turning and if I'm correct is picking up speed.

''The poll – commissioned by the People’s Vote campaign for a fresh referendum – adds that a greater proportion of people want another chance to vote on Brexit, by a margin of 42 per cent to 35 per cent.''

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-support-conservative-seats-uk-region-south-west-eu-referendum-poll-a8483406.html

[SydneyRover]

Arise Sir Jim:

Last year documents released by Friends of the Earth revealed Ineos had lobbied the government to roll back environmental regulations if the UK were to leave the EU.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jim-ratcliffe-brexit-uk-richest-man-monaco-move-tax-haven-eu-leave-a8484211.html

[SydneyRover]

The move is on, more and more people are pushing back against the relentless bad news about Brexit and the way it was handled.

''More than 100 Westminster constituencies that voted to leave the EU have now switched their support to Remain, according to a stark new analysis seen by the Observer.''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain

[SydneyRover]

The people of Britain may finally have an opportunity to exercise their democratic right to vote in what may turn out to be the most important poll in their entire lives.

''Public backing for a new referendum on Theresa May’s Brexit deal has leapt in the last month, amid deep division over her approach to EU withdrawal.''

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/final-say-brexit-second-referendum-vote-petition-theresa-may-deal-eu-a8490256.html

[The Red Baron]

The people of Britain may finally have an opportunity to exercise their democratic right to vote in what may turn out to be the most important poll in their entire lives.

''Public backing for a new referendum on Theresa May’s Brexit deal has leapt in the last month, amid deep division over her approach to EU withdrawal.''

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/final-say-brexit-second-referendum-vote-petition-theresa-may-deal-eu-a8490256.html

I actually think quite a number of pro-Brexit people are warming to the Second Referendum idea, because they don't trust May to deliver what they consider a  "proper" Brexit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

Ans so we come round again to the nub of the problem. No-one knew what sort of Brexit they were voting for. Which made holding a single, binary referendum the height of stupidity.

The history books will not be kind to Cameron. Calling that referendum for party political purposes has tipped the country into both a shocking economic position and an appallingly fractured social position. We elect Governments to be the grown-ups who take the hard decisions. He avoided the job he was supposed to do because he didn't have the balls to face down the Europhobes in his party and in UKIP. And look where he's left us.

[SydneyRover]

The people of Britain may finally have an opportunity to exercise their democratic right to vote in what may turn out to be the most important poll in their entire lives.

''Public backing for a new referendum on Theresa May’s Brexit deal has leapt in the last month, amid deep division over her approach to EU withdrawal.''

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/final-say-brexit-second-referendum-vote-petition-theresa-may-deal-eu-a8490256.html

I actually think quite a number of pro-Brexit people are warming to the Second Referendum idea, because they don't trust May to deliver what they consider a  "proper" Brexit.

Spot on TRB

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain

[bpoolrover]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1002254/Brexit-news-uk-business-uk-eu-trade-deal/amp

[SydneyRover]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1002254/Brexit-news-uk-business-uk-eu-trade-deal/amp

Its good news Bpool so why doesnt Britain stay in and still trade with these countries and get the benefit of being in the EU?

I would think that a lot of this would be due to the pound nosedivingif it goes back up will these export figures and markets be maintained?, it will be bad news if they are not and we are not in the EU either.

Unfortunately a lot of those in power and business do not have the welfare of the public at heart.

“For air pollution, maximum emissions levels have largely remained unchanged, with the levels of some critical pollutants such as nitrogen oxides and mercury being raised compared to the existing guidance. Sadly, especially for people living near these plants, it’s a clear cut case of one step forward, two steps back.”

http://eeb.org/business-as-usual-for-waste-incineration-as-updated-eu-protections-match-or-weaken-existing-guidelines/

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool

A word of advice. Never trust a headline. It’s a 30 second job to go on Google and find the source material.

https://www.maritimeuk.org/documents/249/Maritime_UK_-_Summary_Document.pdf

The headline says: Britain will be BETTER OFF after Brexit: Poll shows businesses BRIMMING with confidence

But here’s a thing. Nowhere in that poll were the companies asked if they thought business would be stronger after Brexit. Not once. Never.

Nowhere in that poll were the businesses asked if they were confident about the outcome of Brexit. Not once. Never.

There is nothing whatsoever in that poll that shows business brimming with confidence about Brexit.

The journalist has simply made that headline up.

Does that surprise you? Does it shock you? Do you feel that you are being treated like an idiot by that journalist?

The Express and The Mail do that time after time after time. Might be worth asking yourself why.

Also, yes we have had an increase in exports since the Brexit vote. As has pretty much every country in the world. There’s been a global economic boom over the past two years. There’s been a lot more trade going on. We haven’t seen an increase in exports BECAUSE OF the vote, which is what that article implies.

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/the-van-driver-being-put-out-of-business-by-brexit/

[MachoMadness]

Does that surprise you? Does it shock you? Do you feel that you are being treated like an idiot by that journalist?

I feel like it might, but the anger will be directed at the people pointing out the lie rather than the people who told the lie in the first place. Strange times.

[RedJ]

Does that surprise you? Does it shock you? Do you feel that you are being treated like an idiot by that journalist?

I feel like it might, but the anger will be directed at the people pointing out the lie rather than the people who told the lie in the first place. Strange times.

Bit like on here, really...

[hoolahoop]

Does that surprise you? Does it shock you? Do you feel that you are being treated like an idiot by that journalist?

I feel like it might, but the anger will be directed at the people pointing out the lie rather than the people who told the lie in the first place. Strange times.

Bit like on here, really...

True and there are so many examples on the James O' Brien LBC  phone in show being played out not only here but throughout the country. Sad days indeed . The Brexiters wonder why we care so much about this too - they won't when the penny or should i say pennies finally drop/ s

[SydneyRover]

Does that surprise you? Does it shock you? Do you feel that you are being treated like an idiot by that journalist?

I feel like it might, but the anger will be directed at the people pointing out the lie rather than the people who told the lie in the first place. Strange times.

Bit like on here, really...

True and there are so many examples on the James O' Brien LBC  phone in show being played out not only here but throughout the country. Sad days indeed . The Brexiters wonder why we care so much about this too - they won't when the penny or should i say pennies finally drop/ s

Mark Twain has a few things to say about learning.

[wilts rover]

An interesting new poll out today (if you are interested in what the public think about Brexit and how that might influence politicians that is).

Despite (or perhaps because of!) Jeremy Hunt et al telling us all how much the EU would be to blame if there were no deal, 41% of the public would blame May & her 'team' whilst only 23% would blame the EU. A further 15% would blame Brexiteer Tories, 8% Tory Remainers and only 6% Labour.

https://leftfootforward.org/2018/08/breaking-theresa-may-would-be-to-blame-for-no-deal-brexit-outcome-say-voters/

[hoolahoop]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/the-van-driver-being-put-out-of-business-by-brexit/

These are all worth a listen O' Brien although he does talk a little too much , he does deal in facts not opinion and forces his callers to back up their opinions with not only reasoned logic but fact - he doesn't suffer fools gladly

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/the-van-driver-being-put-out-of-business-by-brexit/

These are all worth a listen O' Brien although he does talk a little too much does deal in facts not opinion and forces his callers to back up their opinions with not only reasoned logic but fact - he doesn't suffer fools gladly

Have you heard the one with the International Trade expert? It's enough to make you shit your pants when he lays it all out as it really is and not how the Brexiteers fantasise it is.

[hoolahoop]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/the-van-driver-being-put-out-of-business-by-brexit/

These are all worth a listen O' Brien although he does talk a little too much does deal in facts not opinion and forces his callers to back up their opinions with not only reasoned logic but fact - he doesn't suffer fools gladly

Have you heard the one with the International Trade expert? It's enough to make you shit your pants when he lays it all out as it really is and not how the Brexiteers fantasise it is.

Yeah heard that one Glyn but can't help thinking that James O' Brien's voice is one in a wilderness of oncoming dystopia. The voices for Remain simply arent cutting through despite the fact that they are on the right side of the argument.

JRM, Farage etc seem to have a platform to fend off any logical argument against Brexit and are using it via the MSM, the BBC, Sky News, Fox, RT etc. They have them ALL in their pocket - witness just the lack of any comment from Leavers  on this forum alone to not only the phone- in above but all the facts , arguments etc that have posted on this thread .

There is NOT one agreement , anywhere from any of the Leavers following this thread that they might just be wrong on anything at all . It's beyond sad.

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/the-van-driver-being-put-out-of-business-by-brexit/

These are all worth a listen O' Brien although he does talk a little too much does deal in facts not opinion and forces his callers to back up their opinions with not only reasoned logic but fact - he doesn't suffer fools gladly

Have you heard the one with the International Trade expert? It's enough to make you shit your pants when he lays it all out as it really is and not how the Brexiteers fantasise it is.

Yeah heard that one Gluyn but can't help thinking that James O' Brien's voice is one on a wilderness of oncoming dystopia. The voices for Remain simply arent cutting through despite the fact that they are on the right side of the argument.

JRM, Farage etc seem to have a platform to fend off any logical argument against Brexit and are using it via the MSM, the BBC, Sky News, Fox, RT etc. They have them ALL in their pocket - witness just the lack of any comment from Leavers  on this forum alone to not only the phone- in above but all the facts , arguments etc that have posted on this thread .

There is NOT one agreement , anywhere from any of the Leavers following this thread that they might just be wrong on anything at all . It's beyond sad.

I hope O'Brien gets that bloke in the studio like he wants, answering caller's questions, for a full programme. That'll be something worth listening to, especially if he squashes a lot of the mythology around Brexit.

[SydneyRover]

This just about sums Brexit up and all who sail in her.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/aug/18/titanic-success-viral-video-satirising-brexit-10m-views

[SydneyRover]

B.Johnson’s constituency was once 57.9 per cent in favour of leaving the European Union. Now is it 51.3 per cent in favour of remaining.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-ruislip-a8495926.html

That's quite a swing right?.

[Glyn_Wigley]

B.Johnson’s constituency was once 57.9 per cent in favour of leaving the European Union. Now is it 51.3 per cent in favour of remaining.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-ruislip-a8495926.html

That's quite a swing right?.

I remember a lot of Brxiteers demanding that MPs ignore their own feelings and instead reflect their constituent's wishes!

Mind you, that would have led to the fascinating scenario of a PM voting against her own government!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Funny how the same politicians don’t think that MPs should follow their constituents’ wishes on rail and water nationalisation, Govt spending and NHS funding.

[RedJ]

Will of the people only matters when it suits.