Brexit Negotiations

[SydneyRover]

Hey Sproty, never say I dont give you a leg up or respect your views, here is a freebie, maybe a first on this thread, something to celebrate, a good news story, something that will bring a warm glow to everyones heart. People will remember this as the turning point, a point in time when the Brexit fairy tale delivered. There are critics but just ignore them and feel the love.

Last year, Britain exported £2.4bn worth of goods to the six African countries included in Ms May’s deal - just 0.7 per cent of the value of its exports to the EU and the rest of the world combined, which were worth £339bn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZAwoip5aY

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-trade-deal-africa-theresa-may-trip-post-brexit-eu-rollover-a8511871.html

Hey Sydney, interesting to see that an agriculturally backward Nation is planning to take advantage of Brexit and intends sending us such delicacies as burnt Goat Heads and GM Modified meat, a right set of scumbag scoundrels by all accounts!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-meat-banned-eu-australia-beef-liam-fox-dit-friends-of-the-earth-a8475006.html

Now't new, they've been getting away with sending us that Fosters Lager shite for years.

Dear Mr Bullet sorry to inform you that you have the wrong end of said stick again, SY

Foster's Lager is an internationally distributed brand of lager with its origin in Australia. It is owned by the international brewing group AB InBev, and is brewed under licence in a number of countries, including its biggest market, the UK, where the European rights to the brand are owned by Heineken International.

[MachoMadness]

To be fair Foster's being brewed in the EU is as good a reason as any to vote Leave.

[bpoolrover]

I haven't got a scooby what you're on about Bpool. What 2/3rds?

sorry mate link didn't work

[BillyStubbsTears]

Was this the link Bpool?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/finance/city/750641/Brexit-bashing-economists-admit-they-got-it-wrong/amp

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's just that, if it was, it's another case of The Express making up headlines.

1) Nowhere in that article does it provide any example of any economist "admitting they got it wrong" on the effect of Brexit.

2) They say that the economy didn't take a hit due to the Brexit vote.

Well here's the data from the OBR. Not predictions. Facts about what has already happened.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MissSVMalone/status/973547900415471616/photo/1


They are lying to you and treating you like a gullible fool.

[hoolahoop]

It's just that, if it was, it's another case of The Express making up headlines.

1) Nowhere in that article does it provide any example of any economist "admitting they got it wrong" on the effect of Brexit.

2) They say that the economy didn't take a hit due to the Brexit vote.

Well here's the data from the OBR. Not predictions. Facts about what has already happened.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MissSVMalone/status/973547900415471616/photo/1


They are lying to you and treating you like a gullible fool.

Lol I can't help myself sometimes either , the Express is my " go to " place for a good chuckle too. The stuff is getting worse - have you tried perusing their reader's forum too ? Its entertaining to say the least. PMSL

Please tell me you don't go there for serious reading and politics bpool ?

[hoolahoop]

To be fair Foster's being brewed in the EU is as good a reason as any to vote Leave.

At last 79 pages in - we have a genuine reason for leaving the EU  ..... it's Fosters lager.

[SydneyRover]

To be fair Foster's being brewed in the EU is as good a reason as any to vote Leave.

At last 79 pages in - we have a genuine reason for leaving the EU  ..... it's Fosters lager.

Except Hoola that its brewed in Britain and drunk by Britons and for good measure (or bad, I cant stand it):

Foster's lager, as we know it in Britain's pubs and supermarkets, is an Australian brand; it is not an Australian beer. "Australian for lager" it may claim to be, but 1.2bn pints of the amber nectar a year are brewed in Manchester, not Melbourne.

[RedJ]

It's just that, if it was, it's another case of The Express making up headlines.

1) Nowhere in that article does it provide any example of any economist "admitting they got it wrong" on the effect of Brexit.

2) They say that the economy didn't take a hit due to the Brexit vote.

Well here's the data from the OBR. Not predictions. Facts about what has already happened.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MissSVMalone/status/973547900415471616/photo/1


They are lying to you and treating you like a gullible fool.

Lol I can't help myself sometimes either , the Express is my " go to " place for a good chuckle too. The stuff is getting worse - have you tried perusing their reader's forum too ? Its entertaining to say the least. PMSL

Please tell me you don't go there for serious reading and politics bpool ?

Well by the sounds of it he hasn't even read the article he's posted the link to just seen the headline and decided it fit his argument.

[bpoolrover]

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2017/jan/08/economic-forecasts-hardwired-get-things-wrong How about this 1 or I could post hundreds of them saying most get it wrong

[bpoolrover]

https://www.ft.com/content/70a2a978-adac-11e7-8076-0a4bdda92ca2

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool

This is impossible. You are determined to look at 18 month old headlines written by politically motivated journalists and ignore the actual facts.

That Guardian journalist (who is a serial awkward bugger) says.

"The fallback position for those who said the sky would instantly fall in after the referendum is that they were right about everything apart from the timing. Armageddon has been postponed, not cancelled. The consensus is that in the long term there will be a sizable and permanent hit to the economy from Brexit, caused by a loss of trade and inward investment."

He says that with a curl of the lip as if to say "Yeah right".

Well actually, yeah, right. Look what has happened since he wrote that in Jan 2017.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MissSVMalone/status/973547900415471616/photo/1

Every other major industrialised has seen its  GDP growth increase. Even Japan which has been a basket case for years. Even Italy which isn't on that graph. We alone have seen our growth fall. We've missed out on a global boom.

We've-90bn due to a huge downturn that is entirely down to the Brexit vote. Just as the economists that he derided had predicted. Being a journalist he won't tell you that the rest of the world has been booming and we alone have seen our growth collapse.

That's why you no longer see journalists writing stories decrying the economists' predictions with any detail. Because the predictions were right. So the Brexit supporting journalists will move on. And you will keep on parrotting their pontifications that have been comprehensively disproved. 

You seem happy with the fact that we've lost a shed load of money and that we're going to continue on a much poorer path than we should.  I am f**king livid because I want my kids to grow up in a richer country than they are going to do.

[graingrover]

German Finance Minister rebutes Macron's proposal for a Eurozone Central budget to share rich country wealth among poor Eu country needs .It will go unmentioned in all but FT and on Bloomberg but it is a huge blow to the fulfillment of the EU dream.

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[graingrover]

Just to dispel a myth about single market for Financial services.There was ,a  DIRECTIVE IN 1992 to allow freedom of services across borders but was never fully implemented .So when I tried to introduce some Commercial Union Uk products onto the continent. eg in 1992 Uk already provided cheap rate Life Assurance for non smokers ..the tariffs were refused in Belgium Luxembourg and Holland and we  were unable to enforce despite the above mentioned Directive .Secondly we were refused permission to sell cheaper motor insurance to women(  as exists in  UK) the argument being gender discrimination is not allowed under EU law. The realities of life on the ground bear little relation to to the noise in the media.
Finally Maersk shipping line which is Danish would have an impossible task getting cover for it' s massive fleet without the London market and Lloyds.

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[bpoolrover]

What amuses me bst is that if someone puts a link up you say there politically motivated etc. Yet if you put 1 up there the best and most independent person in the world, have you thought ever that the people you link to might ever be wrong or be politically motivated abit to the left?

[RedJ]

Well to be fair you didn't even read the link you posted from the Express, so...

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool

It's REALLY simple.

I'm posting established facts or predictions from people with a track record of getting predictions right.  You are posting out of date opinions which have been proved wrong by the facts.

I'm not trying to be a smart t**t but that is the issue. It's not me saying "my stuff is right and yours is wrong" because mine is mine and yours is yours. It's because mine has evidence on its side and yours doesn't.

You've referred to two Express articles in the past couple of weeks. I've pointed out the FACT that both of them had headlines which cannot be described as anything but lies. You haven't commented on that. Doesn't it make you stop and think that someone is taking you for an idiot?

[i_ateallthepies]

BST, I've never known a single idiot smart enough to know that he's an idiot.

[tommy toes]

Give up BST. You've made the same point very well many many times with watertight research and evidence and still
Certain folk don't believe you and never will.
I've got a reasonably intelligent Brexiteer friend who gets the Daily Mail every day and believes every word in it. I've borrowed some of your stuff to try and argue with him. It's like talking to the wall.

[hoolahoop]

Give up BST. You've made the same point very well many many times with watertight research and evidence and still
Certain folk don't believe you and never will.
I've got a reasonably intelligent Brexiteer friend who gets the Daily Mail every day and believes every word in it. I've borrowed some of your stuff to try and argue with him. It's like talking to the wall.

TT  I too have some friends like that , it's impossible to get through that wall of ignorance . The door is shut and slammed tight - they are frightened to open the door even slightly hence no acknowledgements to bst 's excellent points .

I know Billy means well to help certain individuals to  at least take a proper look for themselves even if they don't accept it openly on here.

However like my friends they are beyond logic, fact - based evidence and statistics and keep coming back for more .
 My patience is  now running out and just like you  - I have tried using perfectly good arguments some of which I take from here. His ( patience that is ) however seems endless.

He cares that much about the subject and the people he is trying to open that door to.........I suppose we must all be seen as difficult to the average Brexiter. As unpatriotic, weak and unadventurous even enemies of the people.
However when looking at his grand-children and in my case the future of my daughter ( at Copenhagen Uni ) and others who have their vested interests in the prosperity, freedoms and well- being of their children/ grand- children
 ; we still feel we have a duty to continue this fight .

[bpoolrover]

 https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-08-01/what-are-economists-getting-wrong-today This 1 is this month, which ones do you use?

[bpoolrover]

Give up BST. You've made the same point very well many many times with watertight research and evidence and still
Certain folk don't believe you and never will.
I've got a reasonably intelligent Brexiteer friend who gets the Daily Mail every day and believes every word in it. I've borrowed some of your stuff to try and argue with him. It's like talking to the wall.

he has made his point very well I agree but that does not mean he is always right, you will never find bst saying anything good about the tories for example because that would not suit,no matter what anyone puts up he will say his links come from people that are right every time and the oned  other  people put up are nonsense and we're getting taken for a ride,all you have to do is type in do economists get it wrong more than right and there are thousands of links saying they do, yet there all wrong except bst economist of course

[tommy toes]

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-08-01/what-are-economists-getting-wrong-today This 1 is this month, which ones do you use?

You've not read it have you bpool?
This doesn't back up your argument at all.
Read the last paragraph from your link.

[wilts rover]

Give up BST. You've made the same point very well many many times with watertight research and evidence and still
Certain folk don't believe you and never will.
I've got a reasonably intelligent Brexiteer friend who gets the Daily Mail every day and believes every word in it. I've borrowed some of your stuff to try and argue with him. It's like talking to the wall.

he has made his point very well I agree but that does not mean he is always right, you will never find bst saying anything good about the tories for example because that would not suit,no matter what anyone puts up he will say his links come from people that are right every time and the oned  other  people put up are nonsense and we're getting taken for a ride,all you have to do is type in do economists get it wrong more than right and there are thousands of links saying they do, yet there all wrong except bst economist of course

Says the bloke who doesn't want Labour in power because 'they will wreck the economy'. Random economic predicitions appear to be fine if it suits one scenario but not others, hmm.

I am certainly no economist but even I know that if you put up barriers to trade, tarrifs, paperwork, bureaucracy, this make things more expensive and you are not going to sell as much. I also know that if the EU say that our service sector, which makes up 80% of our economy, can't operate in the EU after Brexit, this is going to be a problem for those companies.

The government (who are supposed to believe in Brexit because they are carrying it out) have produced their own impact assessments that show the further away from the EU we go after Brexit the worse it will be for the economy. Liam Fox things it will take 30 years to see the benefits, Rees-Mogg thinks it will be 50.

There is no economic case for Brexit unless you are a billionaire looking to take advantage of the tax cuts and deregulation that the Brexiteers like Fox and Rees-Mogg want. There is an emotional and political case that will lower the standard of living for ordinary people, but until you accept that and the consequences of that choice blackpool, no-one is going to take you seriously.

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-08-01/what-are-economists-getting-wrong-today This 1 is this month, which ones do you use?

What's that telling you, specifically?

[Bentley Bullet]

Give up BST. You've made the same point very well many many times with watertight research and evidence and still
Certain folk don't believe you and never will.
I've got a reasonably intelligent Brexiteer friend who gets the Daily Mail every day and believes every word in it. I've borrowed some of your stuff to try and argue with him. It's like talking to the wall.

he has made his point very well I agree but that does not mean he is always right, you will never find bst saying anything good about the tories for example because that would not suit,no matter what anyone puts up he will say his links come from people that are right every time and the oned  other  people put up are nonsense and we're getting taken for a ride,all you have to do is type in do economists get it wrong more than right and there are thousands of links saying they do, yet there all wrong except bst economist of course

People are capable of representing either side of an argument with equal conviction. When they decide what side to take their level of intelligence dictates how convincing they are. Being convincing doesn't always mean they are right because they are capable of being equally as convincing supporting the other side of the argument.

When the argument is of a political nature their instinctive conviction is to support their own party's stance.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

If one person convincingly argues that it's raining and the other one convincingly argues that it isn't, you don't sit there saying "Well you can make a convincing argument about anything but the truth is unknowable." You look out of the bleeding window and see what the evidence in the real world says.

What you and Bpool are doing, repeatedly, is insisting on keeping the curtains closed, then pouring scorn on the folk who HAVE looked out the window.

That one graph that i have posted up the page should be enough to kill all this discussion. It shows unequivocally how our economic growth has collapsed since the Brexit vote whilst that of every other leading economy has surged.

But you steadfastly refused to engage with that. That is PRECISELY like refusing to look for yourself whether it is raining. If you don't look at factual evidence in front of you, and insists on arguing about the philosophy of arguing, it makes me think that you haven't really got any interest in finding out the truth. You just prefer to argue.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST

Looking out of the window and seeing it is raining isn't making a weather forecast. Looking at what tomorrow's weather forecast is predicted to be by weather experts is what people rely on. Short-term forecasts are very accurate these days, but even with all the knowledge gained over donkey's years of research, the expert's predictions still get less accurate the further into the future they go. 

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

And there we go again.

The economy HAS ALREADY TAKEN A HIT.

That's not a prediction. It's a fact.

It's not a forecast. The washing is already soaking wet because you refused to look out the window when it started raining and you preferred to pontificate on whether anyone could every reliably predict that it would rain.


The issue  is, as I've pointed out to you several times before and you've consistently ignored is that there ARE some things that are too hard to accurately predict but that doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is.

So yes. I agree that looks good range weather forecasting is impossible. As is predicting the performance of the global economy over a long period of time.

Agreed. There are too many unknown variables.

But that's not the issue that we are discussing. We're discussing the specific effect of our country choosing to make it far harder to trade with half a billion of the richest oeie on the planet right on our doorstep.

So yeah, you can't predict what the weather will be like in Donny on 1 Jan 2030.

But you CAN say that it you towed the UK 500 miles further north, it's reasonable to predict that the average temperature in Donny would decrease.

And then, a couple of years after you had started towing, you look back a temperature records and - well whaddya know! It's getting cooler! Maybe those who said it would get cooler had a point and those who said it would get warmer were talking ba-baa?

[graingrover]

I have lived in continental EU countries for 40 years and although I had no voting rights in the referendum I would have voted remain. I worked in Financial services Insurance and Investment banking.There has NEVER been an open borders Market without establishing continental subsidiaries. POST Brexit It will still be possible to establish subsidiaries in EU countries to do business and Llyods Insurance has just set up in Brussels and from it' s Belgian subsidiary will continue to do business as before. DONT despair ..UK and EU will still trade but certain rights of the individual will be compromised .
To illustrate some things that were never freely traded ...you cannot get a mortgage on a house in EU from UK high street banks .EU banks will not give you a mortgage in Uk nor will they insure you.The same refusals apply to Life assurance Motor Insurance etc etc .Lots of myths surrounding this so called European passporting.

 

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