Brexit Negotiations

[bpoolrover]

Out of interest bst would you be happy with a decent brexit deal or would you rather the shit hit the fan and there was a labour goverment next?

[Donnywolf]

100 Up

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool

Define "a decent Brexit deal".

There is no possible Brexit deal that doesn't leave us significantly economically weaker. Full stop.

I don't want my country to choose to be significantly worse off in the future. So I can't see myself supporting any Brexit deal.

In the short term, I'd rather see us stay in the EU with this lot in power than leave and have Labour in power.

[SydneyRover]

Out of interest bst would you be happy with a decent brexit deal or would you rather the shit hit the fan and there was a labour goverment next?

''Brexit deal: EU says it ‘will retain all control’ under Theresa May’s agreement, leaked note shows''

Is this the deal you want bpool? looks like May has sold everyone a shit sandwich.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-latest-theresa-may-plan-retain-control-eu-sabine-weyand-cabinet-a8632866.html

[Bentley Bullet]

So the EU did have all control over us after all!

[SydneyRover]

So the EU did have all control over us after all!

Or these are the regulations agreed to by the 28 countries in the EU, I personally have no problems with regulations that protect workers rights.

''According to new figures recently published by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE), between April 2013 and March 2014, 133 people in Britain died in workplace accidents - 17 less than the previous year, 42 less than 2010/11, 46 less than 2008/09 and the lowest number since records began.Jul 4, 2014''

[Bentley Bullet]

Ah, so "All control" just applies to workers rights. I see.

[SydneyRover]

Ah, so "All control" just applies to workers rights. I see.

Interpret it as you wish BB, you usually do.

[Bentley Bullet]

Correct me if I'm interpreting it wrong then.

[SydneyRover]

Correct me if I'm interpreting it wrong then.

monty python did a good sketch on how to buy an argument.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So the EU did have all control over us after all!

I think you're rather missing the point BB.

We currently are member of the EU. The EU currently decides the rules of how the SM and CU work. The EU does that collectively. We are part of that discussion. We (and all the other 27 members) compromise and reach agreement that we can all accept.

When we leave, we will not be part of those discussions. But if we still want the benefits of preferential trade with the EU, we'll have to abide by the rules that they decide.

That is what she means by them retaining control.

If we don't like that, that's fine. We can walk away and be treated like any other country.

[Boomstick]

This really is fascinating stuff, they will be talking about it in 100 years !

I can see a no deal Brexit happening.

Astonishing times !

[Bentley Bullet]

Correct me if I'm interpreting it wrong then.

monty python did a good sketch on how to buy an argument.

I didn't know you had to pay for an argument, and seeing as I haven't bought one, why are you arguing?

[Herbert Anchovy]

From what I’ve heard this morning here’s my guess on what will happen.

The deal that May comes back with will please neither side because both sides want a ‘perfect’ Brexit based on their own ideals. Consequently it won’t get voted through parliament which will push us towards a no deal. This will put May under huge pressure to either call a second referendum or a general election. She won’t call a GE because she knows she’ll lose to Labour. As a result a second referendum is the least bad choice for her. We’ll have a second referendum and remain will win by a whisker. Then Christ knows what will happen...

[Boomstick]

From what I’ve heard this morning here’s my guess on what will happen.

The deal that May comes back with will please neither side because both sides want a ‘perfect’ Brexit based on their own ideals. Consequently it won’t get voted through parliament which will push us towards a no deal. This will put May under huge pressure to either call a second referendum or a general election. She won’t call a GE because she knows she’ll lose to Labour. As a result a second referendum is the least bad choice for her. We’ll have a second referendum and remain will win by a whisker. Then Christ knows what will happen...

Never gonna be a 2nd refferendum.

[Not Now Kato]

[Filo]

If we have a second referendum I will change my vote to remain, because that is what appears to be happening now, but without us having a say. We may as well remain and have a say

[Herbert Anchovy]

If we have a second referendum I will change my vote to remain, because that is what appears to be happening now, but without us having a say. We may as well remain and have a say

I’m the same as you Filo. I still believe that we’re better off outside the EU, however our current government is incapable of delivering a positive Brexit AND the EU seem determined to make an example of us, so on that basis I’d vote remain.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The big problem with a 2nd vote is it's easy for the leavers to state it should be boycotted, thus making a second vote unworkable - that scenario would not surprise me.

A clever Tory politician if playing politics would have put Labour in - they would be just as, if not even more divided than the Tories.  No party can win, it is that much of a change.

The devil is in the detail with the agreement, as yet, we don't know what it is.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The big problem with a 2nd vote is it's easy for the leavers to state it should be boycotted, thus making a second vote unworkable - that scenario would not surprise me.

A clever Tory politician if playing politics would have put Labour in - they would be just as, if not even more divided than the Tories.  No party can win, it is that much of a change.

The devil is in the detail with the agreement, as yet, we don't know what it is.

Why would they want to boycott something they keep maintaining Leave would win easily? And how do abstentions make anything unworkable? We keep being told that those who didn't vote at all last time don't count towards maintaining the status quo.

[Copps is Magic]

If we have a second referendum I will change my vote to remain, because that is what appears to be happening now, but without us having a say. We may as well remain and have a say

Which is basically what Yanis Varoufakis told us before the vote, but it got lost in the shitstorm of lies.

David Cameron will go down as the worst primeminister in British history who posed a paradoxical question to the public and split the country in half.

[Not Now Kato]

And leavers accused remain of Project Fear..........
 
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/12/05/see-20-years-of-fake-news-about-eu-by-uk-press-vote-for-your-favourite-here/
 
 
That, on top of all the lies they peddled during the leave campaigns.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Issue is it was never a 2-way decision and it still isn't.

There's no single Brexit. There is a massive difference between a no deal Brexit and a deal Brexit.

Shortly we're going to find out what the deal Brexit is. So we have a three-way decision to make

Remain
Deal Brexit
No deal Brexit.

The problem then is that the largest group of the population prefer Remain and there is no way there will ever be a majority in favour of either of the other 2.

But May wants the decision to be between the other 2.

It's a bit of a problem. 

[drfchound]

If we have a second referendum I will change my vote to remain, because that is what appears to be happening now, but without us having a say. We may as well remain and have a say

I’m the same as you Filo. I still believe that we’re better off outside the EU, however our current government is incapable of delivering a positive Brexit AND the EU seem determined to make an example of us, so on that basis I’d vote remain.

Is there a case to say that a Labour government would have been capable of delivering a positive Brexit deal?

Everyone that I know who voted to leave have told me that they would vote remain if there is a second referendum.

[idler]

I would also change my vote and now vote remain.
I still don't want a more federal Europe but the lack of anyone on the leave side to come up with a credible policy for exit beggars belief. I do think that the thought of the U.K. leaving has made the rest of the EU possibly move some views. The spectre of dealing with the likes of Trump,Putin,  China and Saudi Arabia on our own doesn't fill me with confidence either. The benefit of us staying might also be more useful to the EU than us leaving and being punished as an example to other members.

[Herbert Anchovy]

If we have a second referendum I will change my vote to remain, because that is what appears to be happening now, but without us having a say. We may as well remain and have a say

I’m the same as you Filo. I still believe that we’re better off outside the EU, however our current government is incapable of delivering a positive Brexit AND the EU seem determined to make an example of us, so on that basis I’d vote remain.

Is there a case to say that a Labour government would have been capable of delivering a positive Brexit deal?

Everyone that I know who voted to leave have told me that they would vote remain if there is a second referendum.

Could Labour have delivered a more positive Brexit? Who knows. However, I’m not sure that they’d have been as aggressively split as the Tory party have been. Mrs May has tried to please both sides of opinions in her party as consequently is pleasing nobody (or so it seems to be fair).

Most leavers who I know would vote the same, however a few would change their vote.

[wilts rover]

Is there a case to say that a Labour government would have been capable of delivering a positive Brexit deal?

Keir Starmer has said (several times) that the deal he has been proposing, staying in the CU and close to the SM, has been received positively by people he has spoken to in the EU. Presumably he is speaking the truth so presumably he could deliver a deal based on that.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Has anyone heard when the deal goes before Parliament to be voted on?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Glyn

My bet. It will not reach that far.

Either the Cabinet refuses to agree to the deal tonight, or the Brexit wing of the Tory party launches a no-confidence move against May. 

[Herbert Anchovy]

Is there a case to say that a Labour government would have been capable of delivering a positive Brexit deal?

Keir Starmer has said (several times) that the deal he has been proposing, staying in the CU and close to the SM, has been received positively by people he has spoken to in the EU. Presumably he is speaking the truth so presumably he could deliver a deal based on that.

Fair point