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Once again people reading what they want to read. Who’s said she lied
Quote from: MachoMadness on August 12, 2020, 05:13:25 pmState of this thread, f**king hell. No sources, no evidence, just people DESPERATE to prove a black woman is lying. Really makes you think.What exactly is it really making you think, Macho?This woman is a politician. She is serving the country and all people within it. She says that her video proves that the police are institutionally racist. Saying that is no better than saying that we don’t have any racists in this country.It now appears that there may be parts of that video that she did not want the media/british people to see. Do you really think the police are institutionally racist? And as you talk about evidence, do you really believe she has shown the footage to prove it? Do you really think that when she claims such outrageous nonsense that she claims is proof, she can’t be questioned or discussed without sources and evidence BECAUSE she is black?Again, what does it really make you think?
State of this thread, f**king hell. No sources, no evidence, just people DESPERATE to prove a black woman is lying. Really makes you think.
Quote from: phil old leake on August 12, 2020, 07:36:23 pmOnce again people reading what they want to read. Who’s said she liedNo one said it explicitly. Belton strongly implied it.
Quote from: belton rover on August 12, 2020, 05:48:59 pmQuote from: MachoMadness on August 12, 2020, 05:13:25 pmState of this thread, f**king hell. No sources, no evidence, just people DESPERATE to prove a black woman is lying. Really makes you think.What exactly is it really making you think, Macho?This woman is a politician. She is serving the country and all people within it. She says that her video proves that the police are institutionally racist. Saying that is no better than saying that we don’t have any racists in this country.It now appears that there may be parts of that video that she did not want the media/british people to see. Do you really think the police are institutionally racist? And as you talk about evidence, do you really believe she has shown the footage to prove it? Do you really think that when she claims such outrageous nonsense that she claims is proof, she can’t be questioned or discussed without sources and evidence BECAUSE she is black?Again, what does it really make you think?Yes, the police are institutionally racist. That doesn't mean every police officer is a cross burning fascist, and no one is saying that they are. I know people like to make that strawman argument, though. But the system disproportionately targets black people and, when crimes are committed gives them disproportionately severe sentences. This is not up for debate, it's fact. What is also a fact is that the police haven't disputed her account and admitted they made a mistake. So why Dawn Butler needs to provide any more evidence - beyond the video that she already posted - is beyond me. The facts are pretty clear. And yet you still have people questioning it. Why? Her account is backed by everyone who was there, video evidence, and decades of statistical evidence. So I have to question the motivation of people who feel the need to question that.
OK Belton. Your OP strongly implied she'd been economical with the truth. That alright?
Yes, shame on me, bringing facts into the equation. Talking of twisting things, Belton...Where did anyone say the police were "hunting down" black people? Nobody said that. You keep getting mad at arguments nobody is making. That's not what institutional racism is. It's about conscious and unconscious biases, and a system that upholds them and delivers racism by outcome. Maybe you could have a look at your own biases instead of pearl-clutching and trying to play the "he's saying I'm thick!" card.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on August 12, 2020, 10:03:16 pmOK Belton. Your OP strongly implied she'd been economical with the truth. That alright?Somewhat, Billy. However, not revealing the whole truth about an event and lying about the event are two very, very different things, especially when discussing such an important topic.Perhaps you should avoid skim reading other people’s views before expressing such detailed and clear views of your own.
Quote from: belton rover on August 12, 2020, 10:16:44 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on August 12, 2020, 10:03:16 pmOK Belton. Your OP strongly implied she'd been economical with the truth. That alright?Somewhat, Billy. However, not revealing the whole truth about an event and lying about the event are two very, very different things, especially when discussing such an important topic.Perhaps you should avoid skim reading other people’s views before expressing such detailed and clear views of your own.Belton.I'm not particularly sophisticated in my arguments on things like this. If you impugn someone's honesty, you're impugning their honesty. It's simply a matter of semantics what you call it. Making a "shades of grey" argument is something that the kind of politician I detest would do.
Sort of like how you started this thread indirectly saying Dawn Butler is a race baiting liar, then? And, for the record, it isn't just you I was referring to. It isn't even, to be fair, just people on this thread. I don't think you're thick, but I am confused as to why so many people are completely unwilling to accept that maybe - just maybe - she's telling the truth, when all the evidence says that she is?And no, there's a difference between "hunting" black people, and seeing two black people driving a nice car and assuming in the back of your mind there must be something untoward, so you check their reg plate and pull them over. One is an example of a conscious bias, one is an unconscious bias. Both are bad, but you're not going to change anything by misidentifying the problem.
Phil & Belton - you raise some good points there. Unfortunately I would only take them seriously if you were able to do the same yourselves and look at the evidence on both sides of the argument. At no point in this discussion have you shown any facts or evidence as to why you believe there is no institutional racism in the police (or specifically the Met Police).Nor have you shown any particular empathy for black people's experience with the police and in society. You have both, for want of a better phrase, trotted out a right-wing agenda, the police are always right because they say so.Here's some reading:UK police use restraint on black people four times as often as with their white counterparts, and whilst black people only make up 3.3. per cent of our population, we account for 12 per cent of police altercations in which officers use force. That includes cases like that of Sarah Reed – who became the centre of a police brutality case in 2012, when Met Police constable James Kiddie yanked her by the hair, dragged her across the floor, pressed her neck and repeatedly punched her in the head. It also includes George The Poet’s friend, Julian Cole, who was accosted by six police officers outside a nightclub in 2013, and had his neck broken. Julian didn’t die, but due to police violence, the course of his life was radically altered. When it comes to direct killings at the hands of the police, black people are also more than twice as likely to die in police custody than white people. Across demographics, there have been 402 deaths in Met police custody since 1990, and no convictions.https://www.huckmag.com/perspectives/opinion-perspectives/a-brief-history-of-police-brutality-in-the-uk/