North Stand

[Move DRFC]

Always think how good the stadium would look if it looked like this.

[colincramb]

Often think how good it would have been to have got the original design built. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a decent stadium for our level, but the one that should have been built looked a step above. Shame really.

[Herman Hessian]

...lick of paint for OBV, another layer of portakabins, fences back on the Rosso end and a more accessible bar/lounge for the mainstand paddock - would have done us proud for another few decades...

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Often think how good it would have been to have got the original design built. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a decent stadium for our level, but the one that should have been built looked a step above. Shame really.

Very much so. It would have looked stunning although, in perspective, I love the current stadium too.

We often hear from a few, saying they are embarrassed to see empty seats on the east on TV, well maybe also having a closed upper tier (as a number of clubs do) would only make them feel worse.

I note what some have said about possible expansion within the current footprint. Forget it, that would just be an expensive fudge, requiring more engineering than the return for relatively small number of seats.

If expansion ever became necessary, then it would have to be done properly and I would say gaining a minimum of 5000 seats  (bear in mind that upper tier in that mock up would hold probably less than 3000)

From what I hear, Wrexhams proposed new 5000 seater stand, will cost a 'big chunk' of a £25m grant to redevelop that end of the Racecourse, so construction projects are costing a fortune at the mo. Would or should Donny council be investing more money in it? What more community value would it gain?

I'm pretty sure it would have to be private money, at least £20m but from where?

[colincramb]

It’s a good point, Baz. I mean the cost to expand it would be similar to the original build cost for the whole original stadium.

I can see no way how that kind of investment would ever be justified. Certainly not in my lifetime I would have thought.

[Filo]

Man City did that, but they had the width of a running track to create a lower tier.

The cost to create 3 or 4 rows of seats lower would be massive against any potential gain

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Yes, and I'll take that noise from the Barrow game, hoping it's matched on Friday so let's not forget, it's not the stadium but the people in it that create the atmosphere and as cbcb says, we want to get attendances nearer 80% of capacity more regularly first. Nice to dream though and who knows the next generations might make it happen.

[colincramb]

Man City did that, but they had the width of a running track to create a lower tier.

The cost to create 3 or 4 rows of seats lower would be massive against any potential gain

That stadium was also built with that redevelopment already in factored in, as it was always planned to be redesigned for Man City after the CWG. Probably what should have occurred with the London stadium, but it wasn’t built with that in mind. Building this way when it’s not planned for in advance also impacts sight lines and creates a very shallow raking (somebody mentioned Rotherham’s stadium, but this was built very differently to the KMS due to the physical space available to fit the stadium into, hence a much steeper rake (the maximum allowed in regulation in the UK I believe) and the smaller concourse areas).

The way they I see it from what I know about engineering is that to expand the KMS, best case scenario would mean an additional tier on the top of the east/west (increasing the footprint outwards), which would include a significant alteration to the existing roof structure and existing internal infrastructure.

Worst case scenario would entail a whole rebuild of that particular stand. I wouldn’t rule this out as the only option to expand it.

Either way, it’s a whole load of dough we don’t have.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Man City did that, but they had the width of a running track to create a lower tier.

The cost to create 3 or 4 rows of seats lower would be massive against any potential gain

That stadium was also built with that redevelopment already in factored in, as it was always planned to be redesigned for Man City after the CWG. Probably what should have occurred with the London stadium, but it wasn’t built with that in mind. Building this way when it’s not planned for in advance also impacts sight lines and creates a very shallow raking (somebody mentioned Rotherham’s stadium, but this was built very differently to the KMS due to the physical space available to fit the stadium into, hence a much steeper rake (the maximum allowed in regulation in the UK I believe) and the smaller concourse areas).

The way they I see it from what I know about engineering is that to expand the KMS, best case scenario would mean an additional tier on the top of the east/west (increasing the footprint outwards), which would include a significant alteration to the existing roof structure and existing internal infrastructure.

Worst case scenario would entail a whole rebuild of that particular stand. I wouldn’t rule this out as the only option to expand it.

Either way, it’s a whole load of dough we don’t have.

Absolutely and you've just reminded me of Cardiffs new stadium expansion and I read this...

"In August 2013 the club announced it had submitted a planning application to the local authority for the first phase of a stadium expansion.[43] Phase 1 will entail adding a second tier to the Ninian Stand increasing the capacity to approximately 33,280. 5,150 extra seats are to be provided, including extra commercial and hospitality facilities catering for around 1500. [citation needed]

On 9 October 2013 the local authority granted planning permission for this first phase.[44] The stadium expansion was completed at the beginning of August, a few weeks before the stadium was due to host the UEFA Super Cup. At a later stage, phases 2 and 3 of the development will see up to 3,000 seats added to both the Canton and Grange ends of the ground, bringing the overall capacity up to around 38,000. [citation needed]

However, in March 2015, it was announced that the Ninian Stand extension was to be shut for the 2015–16 season due to poor ticket sales, dropping the capacity to 27,978.[45]"

[Reg of the Rovers]

It's not a comparatively small stadium - five clubs in Prem / Champ have smaller / similar stadiums.
Bournemouth - 11,307
Luton - 11,850
Rotherham - 12,021
Brentford - 17,250
Plymouth - 17,900

In League 1 this year we'd have the 11th biggest stadium. Cosy but regularly full is surely better than big but often empty.

[pib]

Let's be realistic, expansion would only be a requirement and a realistic possibility if we were in the Premier League for a sustained period of time. Even then, TV revenue would dwarf ticket revenue so much that it would quite possibly be deemed not worth the investment.

Bournemouth haven't bothered to expand their ground even though they've spent quite a bit of their recent history in the Prem. I don't know the ins and outs of why that is but you'd imagine investing in the squad and staying there probably gives them a better return than expanding the ground.

[Chris Black come back]

Despite the odd game recently where we’ve had decent gates and the singular example of the second leg in the play offs, people are getting very carried away. Again, we got absolutely nowhere near being regularly at capacity during our five fairly recent seasons in the Championship. Our ground is the right size for our support.

[IDM]

My idea of a financial model god forbid we ever did reach the premier league.  That season, only sign players willing to take PL wages for one season, or on loan.  Bear in mind a good few years ago the team finishing bottom was guaranteed £120 million at least, so it would be more now.

Then assuming instant relegation, use what’s left of the revenue (half maybe?) to expand the stadium whilst maintaining a competitive championship squad.

I’m not talking stupid growth in capacity, maybe 5-7000 extra seats possibly with some safe standing.

That should then suffice should we ever go up again. 

That’s a long way ahead in reality though, if ever.  Mind you, that season Blackpool went up, we were only a couple of points behind them when we played them (and lost) near-ish Easter.  So it could happen.

Ultimately however I see our stadium as ideally sized for the foreseeable future.

[bigallan]

Any pics of the original design anyone ???

[Copps is Magic]

Original was more like a Reebok, KC stadium kind of feel. I somehow like the design that ended up


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[The Beast]

Any pics of the original design anyone ???

Can remember getting a disk from the club with it on, will try and excavate it.

[Copps is Magic]

I think these were the first mock-ups circulated, but I distinctly remember there was an initial idea even before this where the capacity would be 10k/12k. I was in one of those early fan consultation meetings and it was clear most fans thought that wouldn't big enough.

[TonySoprano]

Just think 1000 more in the black bank would do for now.
Surely fairly easy to do, given the false wall at the back of the stand ?

[danumdon]

Original was more like a Reebok, KC stadium kind of feel. I somehow like the design that ended up


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Shame it never got built.

It was a near 25k stadium that would have been downsized to accommodate a reduced capacity (false walls ect) with the easier potential to expand if we ever hit the jackpot.

When you think of the initial cost increases/price of steel/newts at the time, if that had not been the case any future expansion would of been very manageable cost wise. Obviously now its a moot subject as the outlay now is not feasible on a cost benefit analysis.

Unless we just keep on winning, then the sky is the limit

[Herman Hessian]

this would have been so much better than what we ended up with; must admit, I absolutely despise the keepmoat - it's the fact that to all intents and purposes it has the same profile/section right the way around - gives it the impression of being the absolute cheapest option available at the time, and diminishes the 'tribal' element of having distinct stands which was so integral to OBV and many other 'traditional' grounds - but them i'm just a miserable old git, and I'm sure that many folk are more than happy with what we have and quite rightly so - it does the job, albeit in a rather soulless way...

[Nudga]

this would have been so much better than what we ended up with; must admit, I absolutely despise the keepmoat - it's the fact that to all intents and purposes it has the same profile/section right the way around - gives it the impression of being the absolute cheapest option available at the time, and diminishes the 'tribal' element of having distinct stands which was so integral to OBV and many other 'traditional' grounds - but them i'm just a miserable old git, and I'm sure that many folk are more than happy with what we have and quite rightly so - it does the job, albeit in a rather soulless way...

Felt like that for years until the south stand went unreserved.
I can now stand with like minded people and have forged new friendships because of it.

[Chris Black come back]

Reminder that the club paid zero (£0) to obtain a brand new, modern stadium that not only doubled capacity but also landed us a material revenue stream. Yes we pay some modest rent but a nigh on 100 year lease with total security, all paid for by the tax payers of Doncaster and whoever built the housing development on Belle Vue. It’s been an absolutely amazing deal for us but if you are a non-Rover who pays council tax in our city, you’d think the club had robbed them.

[ravenrover]

Except, very rarely as in this Friday, the South Stand is never completely full. Why would you want to expand it?

[TonySoprano]

Except, very rarely as in this Friday, the South Stand is never completely full. Why would you want to expand it?

Not that rare though, 3rd or 4th time this season ?

Going forward, I suspect it will be alot more regular. 

[ravenrover]

I think you a sadly mistaken there, there are always empty seats around the edges and at the front

[Superspy]

I think you a sadly mistaken there, there are always empty seats around the edges and at the front

Pretty sure that's, in part at least, due to the fact they had to reduce capacity when the decision was made to make it unresereved seating. They didn't physically pull seats out, they artificially lowered the capacity of the stand, so even when it's "sold out" there will always be empty seats. Not sure what the numbers involved were but I definitely remember hearing about this at the time and I'm fairly sure SM has mentioned it on several occassions since.

[silent majority]

Yes I have.

When we were making that decision we had to factor in that the SAG wouldn’t like it based on the fact that people selecting their own seats leave gaps that won’t get filled. Therefore the capacity was cut by 500.

[TonySoprano]

I think you a sadly mistaken there, there are always empty seats around the edges and at the front

Everton, Wrexham, barrow and now crewe . Southstand was full.
So , again hardly a rarity and going forward it will be a regular occurrence

[Chris Black come back]

Any extension is probably a million quid or more exercise. If there are plenty of empty seats elsewhere in the ground but the South Stand is consistently full, that is not a business case for an investment of that scale. No CEO or CFO in their right mind would sign off that investment.

[GazLaz]

Any extension is probably a million quid or more exercise. If there are plenty of empty seats elsewhere in the ground but the South Stand is consistently full, that is not a business case for an investment of that scale. No CEO or CFO in their right mind would sign off that investment.

It would be much more expensive than that.