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Oh yes there was Syd, if you believe in freedom and independence there was only one way to vote, and that was to get out before things got far worse and the EU becomes what some always wanted and it will become a federal state. And politicians like Starmer and his entourage going back and forwards colluding openly with their mates in Europe were the nail in the coffin of a remain vote for many. Their actions were the opposite to the lies they were spinning, and were seen through by the electorate. You gobbled the lies and many more like you, that's why you lost.
3) People on the Leave side have pointed out consistently for 5 years that there is no solution to the Irish problem that has GB out of the SM, without either a border between NI and Ireland, or between NI and GB. The Brexit death cult has continuously ignored that. And now they are acting astonished that the other side actually meant it.
I'll stick my head up on this as a leave voter in 2016 .As I've said many times on here I was never a fan of the EU and even less so from the early 90's so when the chance came in 2016 to vote to leave I took it having had false promises twice from Tony Blair to have a referendum which weren't delivered .Hand on heart I was always wary of the referendum delivered by a Tory government I won't deny that but I could never envisage it happening under a Labour one and in any case I always thought to myself at least you can always kick a Tory government out so I voted to leave and take my chances so to speak .I don't regret voting the way I did but I do regret allowing what's occurred since 2016 and playing out today .I didn't want this and I doubt any leave voter did .Knowing what I know now and having given this some thought I'd probably would have not voted at all because I wouldn't have had any position at all .I couldn't have voted to remain because I didn't agree with what the EU had become but neither did I want to see the country it finds itself today .The whole thing since the referendum result has played out as a shyte show with nobody in parliament on either side coming out of this too well at all .My leave vote ties me to this no doubt and the finger pointing in my direction is something I'll have to accept .The only thing I can say is I never wanted it to play out this way and knowing what I know now I'd have stayed at home on the day of the referendum in 2016 .If the Labour Party were to campaign on closer ties to the EU whilst not rejoining totally then I'd be prepared to support that in principle .
As far as the situation in Ireland is concerned as long as when the doodoo hits the fan they start throwing their little toys about it is in Brussels or Paris where the problem is I don't give a damn, and it might concentrate a few minds. After all it is decisions and rules being imposed over there that are causing the problems.
Quote from: tyke1962 on October 13, 2021, 12:19:26 pmI'll stick my head up on this as a leave voter in 2016 .As I've said many times on here I was never a fan of the EU and even less so from the early 90's so when the chance came in 2016 to vote to leave I took it having had false promises twice from Tony Blair to have a referendum which weren't delivered .Hand on heart I was always wary of the referendum delivered by a Tory government I won't deny that but I could never envisage it happening under a Labour one and in any case I always thought to myself at least you can always kick a Tory government out so I voted to leave and take my chances so to speak .I don't regret voting the way I did but I do regret allowing what's occurred since 2016 and playing out today .I didn't want this and I doubt any leave voter did .Knowing what I know now and having given this some thought I'd probably would have not voted at all because I wouldn't have had any position at all .I couldn't have voted to remain because I didn't agree with what the EU had become but neither did I want to see the country it finds itself today .The whole thing since the referendum result has played out as a shyte show with nobody in parliament on either side coming out of this too well at all .My leave vote ties me to this no doubt and the finger pointing in my direction is something I'll have to accept .The only thing I can say is I never wanted it to play out this way and knowing what I know now I'd have stayed at home on the day of the referendum in 2016 .If the Labour Party were to campaign on closer ties to the EU whilst not rejoining totally then I'd be prepared to support that in principle .I could not have said that any better about myself Tyke. Exactly how i was and am about Brexit.
Was it always going to be this way or has the process being a total feck up from 2016 from everyone involved in parliament and closely associated with it ?My gut instinct is total mismanagement and feck up .
Quote from: tyke1962 on October 13, 2021, 01:36:13 pmWas it always going to be this way or has the process being a total feck up from 2016 from everyone involved in parliament and closely associated with it ?My gut instinct is total mismanagement and feck up .I agree with so much of what you say Tyke, with one caveat.Total mismangement, combined with a large dose of bad faith and personal ambitions, has led to nearly all of this. The exception is that the situation in Northern Ireland was totally 100% inevitable following a hard Brexit and leaving the SM/CU.
Quote from: Dutch Uncle on October 13, 2021, 01:41:15 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on October 13, 2021, 01:36:13 pmWas it always going to be this way or has the process being a total feck up from 2016 from everyone involved in parliament and closely associated with it ?My gut instinct is total mismanagement and feck up .I agree with so much of what you say Tyke, with one caveat.Total mismangement, combined with a large dose of bad faith and personal ambitions, has led to nearly all of this. The exception is that the situation in Northern Ireland was totally 100% inevitable following a hard Brexit and leaving the SM/CU. Exactly. We could have left the EU and still remained in the Single Market. Not only would the NI problem not have arisen, the supply and driver shortages wouldn't have happened either.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on October 13, 2021, 02:28:22 pmQuote from: Dutch Uncle on October 13, 2021, 01:41:15 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on October 13, 2021, 01:36:13 pmWas it always going to be this way or has the process being a total feck up from 2016 from everyone involved in parliament and closely associated with it ?My gut instinct is total mismanagement and feck up .I agree with so much of what you say Tyke, with one caveat.Total mismangement, combined with a large dose of bad faith and personal ambitions, has led to nearly all of this. The exception is that the situation in Northern Ireland was totally 100% inevitable following a hard Brexit and leaving the SM/CU. Exactly. We could have left the EU and still remained in the Single Market. Not only would the NI problem not have arisen, the supply and driver shortages wouldn't have happened either.And according to opinion polls in 2017, 70% of the country would have accepted that. The Labour party would have supported that outcome - it was their own policy once Corbyn had been talked sense to. But the Tory party unilaterally decided that wasn't what people voted for in 2016...