Stability

[LSRover]

Throughout the last few seasons there has been lots of negative chat on here about success etc. I am proud to support the Rovers through thick and thin. Fans from recent generations have been spoilt with trips to Wembley, Millennium Stadium, promotions, new stadium. We have achieved all of this and are in a stable financial position. Other clubs that have achieved similar success and pushed the extra mile (Premier League) have achieved short term success but ultimately long term pain. Would you like to be a Blackpool fan right now? Wigan fan? Coventry?  Even Yeovil or Tranmere?  Recent performances have been poor, entertainment value hasn’t been great, if it wasn’t then what would we have to moan about? What purpose would the forum serve? Come on, get behind the club. Much rather have a secure future than short term success.

[Cramby10]

No ones asking the club to bankrupt itself or put itself at risk. We just want a competent manager.

[Padge_DRFC]

If you want stability sign Jaime Peters players of his calibre

[steve@dcfd]

I bet Tranmere said that last year and they did not improve their side and got relegated to League 2. I bet they hope for consolidation this year and got relegated to the conference.

When you do not improve and standstill you go backwards at football.
If we do not improve next year we will be relegated.

Like you have watched rovérs in the leagues, then the conference, then leagues again. I have seen some poor performances, but I can honestly say apart when we fell out the league and then nearly out of existence these owners, this manager give me no confidence that we will stop the decline. I hope they prove me wrong.

[grayx]

I bet Tranmere said that last year and they did not improve their side and got relegated to League 2. I bet they hope for consolidation this year and got relegated to the conference.

When you do not improve and standstill you go backwards at football.
If we do not improve next year we will be relegated.

Like you have watched rovérs in the leagues, then the conference, then leagues again. I have seen some poor performances, but I can honestly say apart when we fell out the league and then nearly out of existence these owners, this manager give me no confidence that we will stop the decline. I hope they prove me wrong.

Totally agree.

[silent majority]

I bet Tranmere said that last year and they did not improve their side and got relegated to League 2. I bet they hope for consolidation this year and got relegated to the conference.

When you do not improve and standstill you go backwards at football.
If we do not improve next year we will be relegated.

Like you have watched rovérs in the leagues, then the conference, then leagues again. I have seen some poor performances, but I can honestly say apart when we fell out the league and then nearly out of existence these owners, this manager give me no confidence that we will stop the decline. I hope they prove me wrong.

No doubt you didn't look beyond the headlines at Tranmere.

[bobjimwilly]

I bet Tranmere said that last year and they did not improve their side and got relegated to League 2. I bet they hope for consolidation this year and got relegated to the conference.

When you do not improve and standstill you go backwards at football.
If we do not improve next year we will be relegated.

Like you have watched rovérs in the leagues, then the conference, then leagues again. I have seen some poor performances, but I can honestly say apart when we fell out the league and then nearly out of existence these owners, this manager give me no confidence that we will stop the decline. I hope they prove me wrong.

A point to note - Bristol City finished 12th last season with 58 points.

[Underwood]

I bet Tranmere said that last year and they did not improve their side and got relegated to League 2. I bet they hope for consolidation this year and got relegated to the conference.

When you do not improve and standstill you go backwards at football.
If we do not improve next year we will be relegated.

Like you have watched rovérs in the leagues, then the conference, then leagues again. I have seen some poor performances, but I can honestly say apart when we fell out the league and then nearly out of existence these owners, this manager give me no confidence that we will stop the decline. I hope they prove me wrong.

A point to note - Bristol City finished 12th last season with 58 points.

They also replaced their manager.

[acko]

stability in football usually means stagnation especially in lower leagues,surely a little investment to push back to championship and sustain that position is far better than trying to  achieve stability in league 1 when expectations are high to our supporters.as Baldwin 6000 is the support figure needed to break even if support keeps dropping as it will the budget drops accordingly relegation material then.i have said it before there is little doubt that mr bramhalls father and grandfather invested to build the business up.why does bramhall and Watson want the club if its just to see it stagnate as people on here have said its their money to do what they like with but football can be very lucrative with the right investment,ask Bournemouth after tonight

[drfchound]

To be fair though acko, when Sheff United came down a few years ago they took a gamble on keeping their players on Championship wages in an attempt to get straight back up.
They failed and it left them in deep deep shino and they have struggled financially ever since.

[Orlandokarla]

When we went down into the conference, had little hope of even having a club anymore, and barely scraped a team (and a kit!) together in time for our first fixture, had I been offered mid table mediocrity in L2 for the next 15/20 years, I'd have taken it like a shot.
I appreciate that many are disillusioned with the current set up for a variety of reasons, but a sense of perspective is needed.

We're still in existence, in L1, and neither broke, nor owned by a villain. We are not relegation fodder, and our attendances are pretty healthy (for us, traditionally), all things considered.

Dickov may very well not be the man to take us forward, some of the players may not be earning their wages currently, and the owners may not provide us with a sufficient budget to see us promoted any time soon, but if this is bad, well it's better than I had dared hope for.

I'm not saying don't question the board, moan at a perceived lack of effort, ability or tactical nous, or get thoroughly depressed with results from time to time, but every now and then, just take a deep breath and take a moment to appreciate what we DO have.

[bobbymax]

stability in football usually means stagnation especially in lower leagues,surely a little investment to push back to championship and sustain that position is far better than trying to  achieve stability in league 1 when expectations are high to our supporters.as Baldwin 6000 is the support figure needed to break even if support keeps dropping as it will the budget drops accordingly relegation material then.i have said it before there is little doubt that mr bramhalls father and grandfather invested to build the business up.why does bramhall and Watson want the club if its just to see it stagnate as people on here have said its their money to do what they like with but football can be very lucrative with the right investment,ask Bournemouth after tonight

Or maybe ask Bournemouth fans in a few years time when their millionaire owner has got bored with his toy, they've run out of ways to cheat the system and are trying to pay PL/Championship wages with next-to-no fans 'cos their current model is unsustainable.
It's great that small clubs get their stab at the big time but it never lasts and leaves a mess that they'll be trying to rectify for the rest of time.

[GazLaz]

stability in football usually means stagnation especially in lower leagues,surely a little investment to push back to championship and sustain that position is far better than trying to  achieve stability in league 1 when expectations are high to our supporters.as Baldwin 6000 is the support figure needed to break even if support keeps dropping as it will the budget drops accordingly relegation material then.i have said it before there is little doubt that mr bramhalls father and grandfather invested to build the business up.why does bramhall and Watson want the club if its just to see it stagnate as people on here have said its their money to do what they like with but football can be very lucrative with the right investment,ask Bournemouth after tonight

Or maybe ask Bournemouth fans in a few years time when their millionaire owner has got bored with his toy, they've run out of ways to cheat the system and are trying to pay PL/Championship wages with next-to-no fans 'cos their current model is unsustainable.
It's great that small clubs get their stab at the big time but it never lasts and leaves a mess that they'll be trying to rectify for the rest of time.

FFP has been put in place to stop that.

[IDM]

The real test of FFP will be proven if QPR get relegated.  What will the FL do?

[drfchound]

If the FL authorities are doing their jobs properly how can Orient Pay Dossena £20,000 per week and they have another player on £12,000 per week.

[Colin C No.3]

stability in football usually means stagnation especially in lower leagues,surely a little investment to push back to championship and sustain that position is far better than trying to  achieve stability in league 1 when expectations are high to our supporters.as Baldwin 6000 is the support figure needed to break even if support keeps dropping as it will the budget drops accordingly relegation material then.i have said it before there is little doubt that mr bramhalls father and grandfather invested to build the business up.why does bramhall and Watson want the club if its just to see it stagnate as people on here have said its their money to do what they like with but football can be very lucrative with the right investment,ask Bournemouth after tonight

Or maybe ask Bournemouth fans in a few years time when their millionaire owner has got bored with his toy, they've run out of ways to cheat the system and are trying to pay PL/Championship wages with next-to-no fans 'cos their current model is unsustainable.
It's great that small clubs get their stab at the big time but it never lasts and leaves a mess that they'll be trying to rectify for the rest of time.

Burnley have had two 'stabs at the big time' in recent years & there's no 'mess' at that club as a result. It's a town with a smaller population than Donny, has a similar number of fans attending (given they are in the Premiership) is having to compete for support because it's surrounded by what are perceived to be 'bigger clubs' & yet it is at best a well run Championship club that can & does press for Premiership status (all be it flittingly) regularly, so what are they doing 'right' that we aren't?

[bobbymax]

stability in football usually means stagnation especially in lower leagues,surely a little investment to push back to championship and sustain that position is far better than trying to  achieve stability in league 1 when expectations are high to our supporters.as Baldwin 6000 is the support figure needed to break even if support keeps dropping as it will the budget drops accordingly relegation material then.i have said it before there is little doubt that mr bramhalls father and grandfather invested to build the business up.why does bramhall and Watson want the club if its just to see it stagnate as people on here have said its their money to do what they like with but football can be very lucrative with the right investment,ask Bournemouth after tonight

Or maybe ask Bournemouth fans in a few years time when their millionaire owner has got bored with his toy, they've run out of ways to cheat the system and are trying to pay PL/Championship wages with next-to-no fans 'cos their current model is unsustainable.
It's great that small clubs get their stab at the big time but it never lasts and leaves a mess that they'll be trying to rectify for the rest of time.

FFP has been put in place to stop that.

You've got more faith in those bottlers at the Football League than I have!

[drfchound]

Colin, Burnley have been getting around 20,000 in for their home games this season so whether they are in the PL or not that can't be classed as similar to ourselves.
Also, since the early sixties when i started watching football, Burnley have always been in the top two divisions whereas during the same period the Rovers have mostly been in division four.
The only similarity between the two clubs is that both have more illustrious neighbours.

[Wild Rover]

If the FL authorities are doing their jobs properly how can Orient Pay Dossena £20,000 per week and they have another player on £12,000 per week.

Possibly called "Donations" on balance sheet.

[drfchound]

If that is the case then why have the rule in the first place then?

[The Red Baron]

Colin, Burnley have been getting around 20,000 in for their home games this season so whether they are in the PL or not that can't be classed as similar to ourselves.
Also, since the early sixties when i started watching football, Burnley have always been in the top two divisions whereas during the same period the Rovers have mostly been in division four.
The only similarity between the two clubs is that both have more illustrious neighbours.

I agree with your general point that Burnley have a more successful history than we do. However in the 80s they spent most of their time in the lower divisions and in 1987 they came within an ace of being the first club automatically relegated from the Football League.

[The Red Baron]

If that is the case then why have the rule in the first place then?

Like most rules, "for the observance of fools and the guidance of wise men."

[The Red Baron]

I bet Tranmere said that last year and they did not improve their side and got relegated to League 2. I bet they hope for consolidation this year and got relegated to the conference.

When you do not improve and standstill you go backwards at football.
If we do not improve next year we will be relegated.

Like you have watched rovérs in the leagues, then the conference, then leagues again. I have seen some poor performances, but I can honestly say apart when we fell out the league and then nearly out of existence these owners, this manager give me no confidence that we will stop the decline. I hope they prove me wrong.

No doubt you didn't look beyond the headlines at Tranmere.

What did happen at Tranmere? They have fallen very quickly when you think that they had a spell at the top of League One two seasons ago.

[IDM]

I remember very well that 2 1/2 years ago the two high flyers in League one were Tranmere and Notts Co.

We won at both their places on the way to grinding out the title, but look where all 3 clubs are now?  Tranmere out of the league, and Notts still potentially relegated to league 2.  And we are (at best) mid table in league 1.

How quickly things change eh?

[drfchound]

Apart from the teams at the top of the PL, especially those with the Champions League money, not many teams have unbridled runs of never ending success.
"Look where they are now" could be levelled at dozens of clubs in all of football.

[acko]

I think you might just underestimate Bournemouth bobbymax with the new tv deal and the relegation fall out money Bournemouth should be alright,but don't you think its like you and me and everyone else that goes on holiday you know its not going to last but going to have bloody good time whilst it does,then when you come home to reality your aim is to have another go cause you enjoyed it

[wilts rover]

If the FL authorities are doing their jobs properly how can Orient Pay Dossena £20,000 per week and they have another player on £12,000 per week.

Not knowing the ins and outs of Orient's finances I would say quite easily. Providing the money funding Orient is not in loans then it is within FL rules.

[Colin C No.3]

Colin, Burnley have been getting around 20,000 in for their home games this season so whether they are in the PL or not that can't be classed as similar to ourselves.
Also, since the early sixties when i started watching football, Burnley have always been in the top two divisions whereas during the same period the Rovers have mostly been in division four.
The only similarity between the two clubs is that both have more illustrious neighbours.

I don't agree drfchound, do you not think that we would attract (given that the ground capacity would have to be increased) 20,000 if we were in the Premiership? The majority of the away support would ensure a 'full away end' at least.

20,000 for Burnley is a sell out, they've had attendances well below that figure this season.

Yes, Burnley have spent most of their history playing at a higher level than us but that goes back to the question I posed, why??

They have gone from nearly winning the First Division as was, to being one result on the last day of the season of being relegated to the Conference.

There are far more similarities to the two clubs, towns, support than you give credence to. I go back to my original post & ask 'why'?

It's certainly not down to money generated by some local millionaire as at Blackburn. So what is it? A 'better' board of director's? Better choice of managers who then go on to 'find' & develop better players? Better youth development? I dunno....but I think it's a valid 'club comparison' for all the reasons I've given.

[silent majority]

Tranmeres problems stemmed from historical debt and the financial input of their former owner Peter Johnson. He threatened not to keep financing the ongoing losses at the club and was seeking a buyer. The club had debts of about £7m.

The trust at Tranmere were trying to raise funds to buy the club from him but failed to reach the level required. However Mark Palios, ex FA Chair, stepped in and tried to run the club with agreement from their bankers on a much reduced budget. Its obviously failed.

Part of their slide could be down to sacking Ronnie Moore when he was found guilty of breaking league rules and betting on matches.

[drfchound]

Colin, yes of course if we were in the PL we would fill the ground, but we aren't are we so we do not get a similar number of fans attending.
They get 20,000 and we get 5 or 6,000.
Burnley also have had some bad times as we know.
My mate emailed me a Sky Sports table showing the average league placings of 90 league clubs over a 50 year period which shows in no uncertain terms that we are punching above our weight even with a mid table league one finish.
Over 50 years the Rovers would be in 75th position (out of 90) but this season we are currently in 57th place.
Therefore we are 18 places above our average finish over the last 50 years.

Just out of interest, Burnley are 16 places above their average finish of 36th.