Winding up petition HMRC

[dickos1]

Andy giddings:

Understand Doncaster Rovers have been served with a winding up petition by HMRC.
It appears this automatic process follows an 'error' involving the transfer of funds from 1 account to another which I'm assured will be quickly being addressed.

[mushRTID]

Why does this keep happening with us? I’m sure this is like the 4th time I have read this.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Why does this keep happening with us? I’m sure this is like the 4th time I have read this.

Probably an issue with how they've logged allocations of payments on the relevant accounts. If one goes wrong (HMRC do it all the time) you end up out of sync on the rest so it keeps repeating and it only gets seen at the deadline because no sensible person pays until the deadline for payment.

In short HMRC are a bit rubbish and don't care too much for small companies which drfc certainly are.

[Dabby]

Info here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720

[redarmi66]

This sort of stuff just needs sorting. Whilst we know there is no issue it just attracts negative publicity

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Not the first and definitely won't be the last football club and other business to fall foul of a winning up order being triggered by HMRC.

There ought to be a warning issued first which would eliminate many cases where errors have occurred by either party.

[Dagenham Rover]

If I was Drfc tbh I would be kicking.up with hmrc they keep doing it damaging the business etc

[mushRTID]

Not the first and definitely won't be the last football club and other business to fall foul of a winning up order being triggered by HMRC.

There ought to be a warning issued first which would eliminate many cases where errors have occurred by either party.

You brush it off that we wont be the first and wont be the last club. Fair enough, I agree.

But I dont recall seeing this pop up as much/often for any other club.

Its now made the BBC sport website and no doubt others.

As redarmi66 says it just needs sorting, are we really just being unlucky every time or is this something we can sort out?

[ForsolongaRover]

Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.

Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.   

[vaya]

Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.

Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.   

Where have the club said they hadn't paid it?

[silent majority]

They haven’t said that at all.

Richard, the Finance Director, is an excellent member of the senior management at the club, and has been tremendous at driving the finances enabling the club to offer seriously low ST prices.

[In the box]

Andy giddings:

Understand Doncaster Rovers have been served with a winding up petition by HMRC.
It appears this automatic process follows an 'error' involving the transfer of funds from 1 account to another which I'm assured will be quickly being addressed.

I’ve just paid for my Season Ticket and parking  is a wind up 

[Glyn_Wigley]

Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.

Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.   

Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682

As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Not the first and definitely won't be the last football club and other business to fall foul of a winning up order being triggered by HMRC.

There ought to be a warning issued first which would eliminate many cases where errors have occurred by either party.

You brush it off that we wont be the first and wont be the last club. Fair enough, I agree.

But I dont recall seeing this pop up as much/often for any other club.

Its now made the BBC sport website and no doubt others.

As redarmi66 says it just needs sorting, are we really just being unlucky every time or is this something we can sort out?

Please see bfyp's post. It is a regular occurance. If you know anyone in business, you will find these issues are not uncommon.

Yes, there maybe a procedural issue for the club to deal with however, it is writ large in the article, it's an admin error so there's no question the club is in trouble.

Unfortunately it seems these orders are triggered by HMRC automatically without prior warning. Nobody is saying they are at fault however I know businessmen who have received notices after payments have been made putting the error in the category "admin error" It works both ways.

[ForsolongaRover]

Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.

Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.   

Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682

As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720

Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.

It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.

[Batleyred]

Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.

Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.   

Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682

As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720

Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.

It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.

Your desperate to find negatively on the club and owners.

[Dagenham Rover]

Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.

Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.   

The club  stated very quickly No monies are owed to Hmrc !  Nowhere have the club said it hadnt been paid so I aint a clue where you've come up with that one from

[Dr Fundlekrotch]

HMRC are way, way behind.  They will send reminders when things are due but don't look at post currently for around 40 days.  I get regular reminders to pay Stamp Duty for clients, when its already been done and HMRC have misallocated it.  We then have to go to the trouble of writing to them and showing them where they need to check.  We will then, invariably, get a penalty notice for not responding because its automated after 30 days but they won't see our correspondence for 40.  Its a bit of a shambles.

[vaya]

Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.

Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.   

Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682

As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720

Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.

It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.

Where has it been confirmed that the club have ignored reminders?

[IDM]

Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.

Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.   

Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682

As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720

Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.

It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.

Where has it been confirmed that the club have ignored reminders?

Only in his or her imagination.

[TonySoprano]

Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.

Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.   

Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682

As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720

Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.

It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.

Where has it been confirmed that the club have ignored reminders?

Because you get reminders before being hit with a winding up petition !

[TonySoprano]

It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.

[idler]

How many reminders say “Please ignore this if you have already paid”?

[vaya]

Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.

Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.   

Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682

As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720

Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.

It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.

Where has it been confirmed that the club have ignored reminders?

Because you get reminders before being hit with a winding up petition !

....and the money was paid, so they've either a) not needed a reminder and paid unprompted, or b) immediately acted on the first one.

If anything this episode is indicative of the state of HMRC at the minute. They're entirely reactive and reliant on firing out automated reminders and WUPs like party poppers and sorting things out in retrospect. It's a grind dealing with them.

[vaya]

It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.

How regular? How many times has this happened?

[bobbymax]

If you deal with HMRC on a regular basis, you'll know what a f**king nightmare they have become. They are chronically short staffed and trying to speak to anyone who knows anything is like trying to get an audience with the Pope.

[TonySoprano]

It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.

How regular? How many times has this happened?

More than twice, seems like every season.
If I was FD, I'd be making sure it doesn't happen, and if I was Blunt or Baldwin, I'd be reading the riot act to him

[IDM]

So you would jump to conclusions before knowing all the facts ie where the problem may actually be (with the HMRC).?

Glad I don’t work for you, and I pity anyone who does.

[vaya]

It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.

How regular? How many times has this happened?

More than twice, seems like every season.
If I was FD, I'd be making sure it doesn't happen, and if I was Blunt or Baldwin, I'd be reading the riot act to him

How many times though, specifically?

I can recall twice. Last year when HMRC somehow broke the habit of the lifetime and admitted it was entirely their mistake, and this occasion which probably wouldn't have happened if they had anyone left capable of a basic receipt analysis.

[silent majority]

It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.

This just shows what's important to certain people and how much 'fun' they seem to have with perverting the actual situation at the club.

Personally I'd rather support the FD who balances the books and finds the funds to ensure that DRFC supporters can have some of the cheapest season tickets in the whole of the EFL, and at a time that the playing budget has been increased substantially. If that's laughable then I'm more than happy to support the FD that delivers something that has true value, rather than adopt a childish position like you do.