James Coppinger

[sedwardsdrfc]

We all remember the bounce back decisively quote by the guy who should know. Safe to assume it should have been a top 6 figure after hearing that.

[ravenrover]

What is said between Aug and Dec is different to the situation come Jan. Funds are added to budgets, as someone has already said, to push for promotion or to try and avoid relegation.What is a competitive top 6 budget can become a mid table budget in the space of 4 weeks very easily if original budgetary constraints are kept in place

[i_ateallthepies]

We all remember the bounce back decisively quote by the guy who should know. Safe to assume it should have been a top 6 figure after hearing that.

Perhaps the guy who made that statement believes to finish lower-mid-table in the division below equals 'bouncing back decisively' when compared to the previous season's relegation?

[Bills view]

Comments below from Gavin Baldwin's 2023 New Year message specific to the budget. Make of it what you will. But something doesn't stack up. You can interpret 'competitive' in different ways. You can compete with any budget maybe not very well.

...become that self-sustainable business with a playing budget that enables us to compete at both League Two and League One level.

These reductions in costs, coupled with the revenue we are now generating away from football, mean that we can keep prices as low as possible without taking money away from the playing budget.

...Club Doncaster continues to provide competitive playing budgets it is one we should all be proud of.

[i_ateallthepies]

I suppose we're all prone to doing it, Bill.  Trusting on first hearing that the words used actually have the most straightforward meaning only to find later that if you had been sceptical you might have seen the real meaning.

[ravenrover]

Like I’ve said all along the board have been gaslighting the supporters; how do VCS members who sit on the board or shadow board not know this; what’s the point in them. It’s either the case that they themselves have been lied to or they are complicit.

I made a statement the other day saying that the board are at loggerheads each month about the shortfall and how to make payment for players wages; I put this directly to SM and never got a response. Again SM are you going to confirm this is the case?

You did get a response, he asked you who your so called reliable source was!

Didn't SM also say it was nonsense?

No he didn’t; he avoided the question, boated of his own accolades and asked for my source.

Are you ignoring the thread you put your original comment on?

[Chris Black come back]

I think he explained that pretty clearly the other day. We started off with a budget at that level, but a small number of other clubs then expanded their budgets for the January window, so we slipped down relatively. Even so, there was little difference in budget between where we are currently (circa 10th) and the couple of clubs above us.

All of this ignores the fact that we haven't spent it particularly well, yet again.

[Alan Southstand]

When you look at what we brought in, in the January window, we can’t have had much of a budget left! We should have been strengthening ready for a push, but the players in no way reflected that strategy. We’re 23rd in the recent form table for a reason!

[DonnyOsmond]

I like how at the point after the Carlisle game on Jan 1st we were 1 point off the play offs in 8th position and the board decided a good idea wasn't to try and push for those positions but to carry on cutting the budget, because who needs promotion, eh?

[GazLaz]

The players took a fairly sizeable pay cut after relegation last season. The actual figure this season is slightly distorted in terms of original contracts offered to the players (hence the value we originally put on them) vs what we are actually paying them this season. If we came down with a £2m wage bill, this season we would have to actually only pay ~£1.6m. Should we class our wage bill as the higher figure or the lower one? Depends what narrative you want to spin I suppose.

[Chris Black come back]

Unless you are Darren Moore and all you sign are loan players, at this level you do need 2-3 loan players to make a big impact. We’ve tended towards the bit part or shirt filler category, which has been an issue for our overall squad quality.

[silent majority]

Has anyone got an actual quote of Baldwin/board saying we have a top six budget this year?

SM did say on a thread last year that we would be a major player in league 2 with a budget that would make us a standout contender.

Now that has to be better than an average budget what we have now don’t you think? And in Martins defence that’s what he was told I’m sure.

Somethings changed somewhere.

Yes I did say that, it was what I discussed at the time with the club, and it was also part of the discussions we had in the Supporters Board meetings when the fear of relegation was looming very large.

What's changed? In another post somewhere on the forum I explained that we started the season with a budget that would have seen us occupying about 6th spot. But I also said there were a lot of clubs around us in terms of budget size, as many as 8-10 clubs, and that it would appear that expenditure in the January window has seen us slip down from there. In a discussion with the club last week I was told that we were probably about 10th now and that couldn't be ratified until the EFL had updated their communique to the clubs.

[Donnybax]

Has anyone got an actual quote of Baldwin/board saying we have a top six budget this year?

SM did say on a thread last year that we would be a major player in league 2 with a budget that would make us a standout contender.

Now that has to be better than an average budget what we have now don’t you think? And in Martins defence that’s what he was told I’m sure.

Somethings changed somewhere.

Yes I did say that, it was what I discussed at the time with the club, and it was also part of the discussions we had in the Supporters Board meetings when the fear of relegation was looming very large.

What's changed? In another post somewhere on the forum I explained that we started the season with a budget that would have seen us occupying about 6th spot. But I also said there were a lot of clubs around us in terms of budget size, as many as 8-10 clubs, and that it would appear that expenditure in the January window has seen us slip down from there. In a discussion with the club last week I was told that we were probably about 10th now and that couldn't be ratified until the EFL had updated their communique to the clubs.

so in reality, never a “major player” then

[Surrey Rover]

Yes I did say that, it was what I discussed at the time with the club, and it was also part of the discussions we had in the Supporters Board meetings when the fear of relegation was looming very large.

What's changed? In another post somewhere on the forum I explained that we started the season with a budget that would have seen us occupying about 6th spot. But I also said there were a lot of clubs around us in terms of budget size, as many as 8-10 clubs, and that it would appear that expenditure in the January window has seen us slip down from there. In a discussion with the club last week I was told that we were probably about 10th now and that couldn't be ratified until the EFL had updated their communique to the clubs.

Surely the budget reduced in October initially when the club stopped paying Lee Tomlin?

[Alan Southstand]

I’ve just been re-reading that Copps piece again and I’m struggling with this:

“We've got 18 players signed up for next season with three signing new contracts recently based on the environment the coach has created.

I reckon we’ve got 15 signed, but I can’t get to 18! Anyone care to have a stab at it?

I’m also wondering how many of those 15/18 players are truly good enough to allow us to vastly improve our position next season?
(Ignore the question whether DS is still in his job).

[DonnyOsmond]

I’ve just been re-reading that Copps piece again and I’m struggling with this:

“We've got 18 players signed up for next season with three signing new contracts recently based on the environment the coach has created.

I reckon we’ve got 15 signed, but I can’t get to 18! Anyone care to have a stab at it?

I’m also wondering how many of those 15/18 players are truly good enough to allow us to vastly improve our position next season?
(Ignore the question whether DS is still in his job).

Maybe youth teamers have signed but  haven't been announced yet?

[Ronnie Dovers]

Has anyone got an actual quote of Baldwin/board saying we have a top six budget this year?

SM did say on a thread last year that we would be a major player in league 2 with a budget that would make us a standout contender.

Now that has to be better than an average budget what we have now don’t you think? And in Martins defence that’s what he was told I’m sure.

Somethings changed somewhere.

Yes I did say that, it was what I discussed at the time with the club, and it was also part of the discussions we had in the Supporters Board meetings when the fear of relegation was looming very large.

What's changed? In another post somewhere on the forum I explained that we started the season with a budget that would have seen us occupying about 6th spot. But I also said there were a lot of clubs around us in terms of budget size, as many as 8-10 clubs, and that it would appear that expenditure in the January window has seen us slip down from there. In a discussion with the club last week I was told that we were probably about 10th now and that couldn't be ratified until the EFL had updated their communique to the clubs.

So at the start of January we were just outside the playoffs, with a new manager and style of football which the owners must believe in, and the first opportunity to recruit players for that new manager and system, and instead of pushing on and backing him we showed absolutely zero ambition compared the clubs around us? Resulting in us now experiencing exactly the drop off you'd expect based on that lack of ambition? Again, it just seems like a really strange decision. We chose to tread water at exactly the point we needed to kick on.

[sedwardsdrfc]

I can only get to our budget going back if it’s on money spent rather than money available. Start if season we were around top 6 then we lose Tomlin, Woltman, Andrews, Knoyle and Clayton. Replace those with Brown, Nelson, Lavery and Lakin.

We must be spending less than at the start of the season after all that. Therefore on money spent we will have dropped. So the question is was Copps not allowed to spend the saved funds or did we limit Jan spending due to quality available.

Personally think the budget won’t have moved and we just couldn’t find decent players for the same money in Jan so downgraded with what was available. That Copps is using it as an excuse is just the pressure on DS and him defending his decision.

[Cramby10]

I can only get to our budget going back if it’s on money spent rather than money available. Start if season we were around top 6 then we lose Tomlin, Woltman, Andrews, Knoyle and Clayton. Replace those with Brown, Nelson, Lavery and Lakin.

We must be spending less than at the start of the season after all that. Therefore on money spent we will have dropped. So the question is was Copps not allowed to spend the saved funds or did we limit Jan spending due to quality available.

Personally think the budget won’t have moved and we just couldn’t find decent players for the same money in Jan so downgraded with what was available. That Copps is using it as an excuse is just the pressure on DS and him defending his decision.

if it was my money, based on the garbage being served up by dull Danny, I sure as hell wouldn’t let him go to town with the chequebook either.

[silent majority]

Has anyone got an actual quote of Baldwin/board saying we have a top six budget this year?

SM did say on a thread last year that we would be a major player in league 2 with a budget that would make us a standout contender.

Now that has to be better than an average budget what we have now don’t you think? And in Martins defence that’s what he was told I’m sure.

Somethings changed somewhere.

Yes I did say that, it was what I discussed at the time with the club, and it was also part of the discussions we had in the Supporters Board meetings when the fear of relegation was looming very large.

What's changed? In another post somewhere on the forum I explained that we started the season with a budget that would have seen us occupying about 6th spot. But I also said there were a lot of clubs around us in terms of budget size, as many as 8-10 clubs, and that it would appear that expenditure in the January window has seen us slip down from there. In a discussion with the club last week I was told that we were probably about 10th now and that couldn't be ratified until the EFL had updated their communique to the clubs.

So at the start of January we were just outside the playoffs, with a new manager and style of football which the owners must believe in, and the first opportunity to recruit players for that new manager and system, and instead of pushing on and backing him we showed absolutely zero ambition compared the clubs around us? Resulting in us now experiencing exactly the drop off you'd expect based on that lack of ambition? Again, it just seems like a really strange decision. We chose to tread water at exactly the point we needed to kick on.

Yes, but if you read what I've written there's a number of clubs with similar budgets, and I mean very similar. So its not the dramatic fall that would explain the drop off in form that we've had.