You Fat B*******

[BigColSutherland]

I'm not saying they do. I'm saying they could.

If they could, they would, wouldn't they?

Anywho, the reality in this country is that a lot of people can't afford to eath healthier.

Living in London, If I were king for a day, or Mayor, the first thing I would do would be to take free bus passes off school children. Get them walking.

[IC1967]

If they could, they would, wouldn't they?

Anywho, the reality in this country is that a lot of people can't afford to eath healthier.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Rather than you be king for a day, what we need is me to be installed as the benevolent dictator of the country for life. I'd soon get everything sorted out (not just the obesity problem).

[River Don]

Do you own any leather products at all?

Yes I do unfortunately. In our society it is impossible to live without having to use products that are in some way associated with animal cruelty.

I disagree, if you are willing to put the effort in you can live a happy life safe in the knowledge that the things you eat/wear etc are not associated with animal cruelty.

A good friend of mine is a very strict vegan and disassociates with anything to do with animal cruelty - as you said above in the post about a healthy diet, it is possible, albeit it with effort.

I also know a few fat vegetarians...

Last time I saw Morrissey on TV he was looking a bit chunky.

[IC1967]

Top bloke Morrisey. True legend. He summed it up very nicely with his 'Meat is Murder' song.

Heifer whines could be human cries
Closer comes the screaming knife
This beautiful creature must die
This beautiful creature must die
A death for no reason
And death for no reason is MURDER

And the flesh you so fancifully fry
Is not succulent, tasty or kind
It's death for no reason
And death for no reason is MURDER


And the calf that you carve with a smile
Is MURDER
And the turkey you festively slice
Is MURDER
Do you know how animals die ?


Kitchen aromas aren't very homely
It's not "comforting", cheery or kind
It's sizzling blood and the unholy stench
Of MURDER


It's not "natural", "normal" or kind
The flesh you so fancifully fry
The meat in your mouth
As you savour the flavour
Of MURDER


NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
Oh ... and who hears when animals cry ?

[IC1967]

There may be some fat vegetarians but on the whole we are a lot slimmer than you carnivores.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/vegetarians-slimmer-meat-eaters-weight_n_4039441.html

[River Don]

The kind people
Have a wonderful dream
Margaret on the guillotine
Cause people like you
Make me feel so tired
When will you die?
When will you die?
When will you die?
When will you die?

And people like you
Make me feel so old inside
When will you die?

And kind people
Do not shelter this dream
Make it real
Make the dream real
Make the dream real
Make it real
Make the dream real
Make it real
Make the dream real

[Glyn_Wigley]

No meat, no fish?! I would go insane!

Or find yourself only weighing six stones...!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Ask yourself the question. How many fat vegetarians have you ever seen? Not many.

If you look at the league tables of fatness you will see Brighton near the very bottom of the table. Brighton is the vegetarian capital of the country. I rest my case.

Captain Sensible is fat, a vegetarian and lives in Brighton.

[BigColSutherland]

Interesting reading:

https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2014/us_obesity_initiative_fails.html

[IC1967]

This study indicates that cost is not the factor when choosing what to eat. Poor people tend to be less educated and more lazy and can't be bothered to cook a proper meal with healthy ingredients.

So your contention that poor people can't afford healthy food is not the issue. Even when it is put under their nose at the right price they still don't buy it. I can only conclude that the majority of poor people are very stupid.

[BigColSutherland]

It certainly suggests that it's not just a cost issue. As the quote at the end says:

"Though these interventions are plausible and well-meaning, this study suggests that they are only effective in taking us part of the way in changing dietary behaviour – in order to realise their full potential we need to better understand how to translate changes in perception to changes in behaviours".

I'm a firm believer in nudge theory.

N.B. Actally IC1967 I've just re-read this article. There's no mention of the stores been low cost, merely stocking healthy foods in an area where healthy foods were previously not available. I'd be keen to review the full study before I change my mind.

[IC1967]

Early on in the article it says the following.

'Disadvantaged neighbourhoods often lack access to low-cost healthy foods, which has led to initiatives in the UK and US that focus on increasing the number of local supermarkets through grants and loans'.

There you have it. The initiative was for low cost healthy foods. The supermarkets were obviously subsidised through grants. There would have been no point doing what they did if the healthy food was expensive.

[BigColSutherland]

Obviously we will agree to disagree on this again IC1967.

I'm reviewing what little detail there is on the study and it doesn't mention low-cost unfortunately - only the intro bit you mentioned, which appears more contextual to me.

It certainly is a tricky thing to solve though.

[River Don]

I notice Hull City do a Fit Fans program.

http://www.fitfans.co.uk/

Perhaps Rovers could look at something like this, with us having the facilities and the club Doncaster thing an' all.

I quite like the idea of involving players and coaching staff to give advice and help.

[Orlandokarla]

Top bloke Morrisey. True legend. He summed it up very nicely with his 'Meat is Murder' song.

Heifer whines could be human cries
Closer comes the screaming knife
This beautiful creature must die
This beautiful creature must die
A death for no reason
And death for no reason is MURDER

And the flesh you so fancifully fry
Is not succulent, tasty or kind
It's death for no reason
And death for no reason is MURDER


And the calf that you carve with a smile
Is MURDER
And the turkey you festively slice
Is MURDER
Do you know how animals die ?


Kitchen aromas aren't very homely
It's not "comforting", cheery or kind
It's sizzling blood and the unholy stench
Of MURDER


It's not "natural", "normal" or kind
The flesh you so fancifully fry
The meat in your mouth
As you savour the flavour
Of MURDER


NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
Oh ... and who hears when animals cry ?

That Morrissey fella is a bit of an old drama queen, isn't he? 

[IC1967]

He's just pointing out how cruel eating meat is. He is one of the finest men ever to have been born in this country. 

[Orlandokarla]

He's just pointing out how cruel eating meat is. He is one of the finest men ever to have been born in this country.

Really? Seriously? 

Everything is a part of the food chain; cruelty doesn't even come into it.

[RedJ]

I notice Hull City do a Fit Fans program.

http://www.fitfans.co.uk/

Perhaps Rovers could look at something like this, with us having the facilities and the club Doncaster thing an' all.

I quite like the idea of involving players and coaching staff to give advice and help.

I'm sure there was something like this going at one point that was plugged on here, can't remember what it was called though.

[BigColSutherland]

He's just pointing out how cruel eating meat is. He is one of the finest men ever to have been born in this country.

Really? Seriously? 

Everything is a part of the food chain; cruelty doesn't even come into it.

I suspect cruelty does come in to it, and that's why we have laws to protect the welfare of animals, even if their ultimate destination is the slaughterhouse.

[IC1967]

I'm always amazed at how little meat eaters know about the scandalous cruelty that goes into producing the food you eat and drink. Take milk as an everyday example. 99.9% of the population are totally unaware of the barbarism that goes into milk production.

I dare any of you to read the following article. If you do, unless you have a heart of stone, you will never feel the same way about your daily pint.

Ghandi once said you can judge a society by how it treats animals. On that measure we have a very long way to go.

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/animals-used-food-factsheets/cows-milk-cruel-unhealthy-product/

[Orlandokarla]

He's just pointing out how cruel eating meat is. He is one of the finest men ever to have been born in this country.

Really? Seriously? 

Everything is a part of the food chain; cruelty doesn't even come into it.

I suspect cruelty does come in to it, and that's why we have laws to protect the welfare of animals, even if their ultimate destination is the slaughterhouse.

We were talking about the eating of meat.
Everything is a part of the food-chain. Eating meat is not inherently cruel.
Animal cruelty, abuse and/or neglect is something altogether different.

[IC1967]

That last post is the biggest load of b*llocks I have ever read. Trust me I know what I'm talking about. I've read no end of BST posts but that last post beggars belief.

[idler]

You obviously don't read your own posts then Mick.

[IC1967]

You obviously don't read your own posts then

 

Of course not. I'm a forward thinker and always moving on to the next big issue that I need to sort out.

[idler]

Crikey do you sell those as well?

[Orlandokarla]

That last post is the biggest load of b*llocks I have ever read. Trust me I know what I'm talking about. I've read no end of MadMick50 posts but that last post beggars belief.

Fixed. 

How are animals not a part of the food chain?
How is the act of eating meat cruel, and any different from, say, the act of wearing leather shoes?
How is the act of eating meat no different than animal abuse, cruelty and/or neglect?

Feel free to use google, cut/paste, Children's Britannica, or post a link to your favourite political extremist website.

As the undisputed King of WUMs on this site, surely old fashioned trolling is beneath you?

[IC1967]

Orlando, you are making yourself look very silly. If you can't see that eating animals involves cruelty then I don't know what to say to you.

You obviously haven't bothered to read the link I posted earlier to see how milk is produced. You sound like you don't even want to confront the issue of cruelty in food production because you are scared that what you will find will be a total contradiction of your naively held views.

I'd have much more respect for your views if you knew what you were on about. It is patently obvious from your statements you know nothing of food production.

[Orlandokarla]

Orlando, you are making yourself look very silly. If you can't see that eating animals involves cruelty then I don't know what to say to you.

You obviously haven't bothered to read the link I posted earlier to see how milk is produced. You sound like you don't even want to confront the issue of cruelty in food production because you are scared that what you will find will be a total contradiction of your naively held views.

I'd have much more respect for your views if you knew what you were on about. It is patently obvious from your statements you know nothing of food production.

You still haven't answered the questions Mick. I purposely kept them quite specific, in an attempt to avoid knee-jerk reactions like yours and stay on topic. If you'd bothered to read my post clearly, you'd realise that you've made a bit of an arse out of yourself by making assumptions and jumping down my throat.

Understanding the position and importance that animals hold in the food-chain, doesn't equate to a lack of respect or indifference towards their well-being.

If you think that all milk, meat and eggs come from factories similar to those featured on PETA's website, then you're as naive and ignorant as you assume I am.

I hunt, keep, raise, breed, rescue and also slaughter a variety of animals. I live and work on a small farm/ranch in a national forest. I have friends that work in a variety of agricultural industries. I rescue horses (at my own expense, I might add), and I also volunteer my time to help monitor local bear populations. None of this makes me an expert, or right, but it does mean that I am able to offer a perfectly valid POV, backed up by RL experience.

PETA have an extremist agenda. They shock people with the worst examples of animal cruelty, and use the horrendous actions of a minority to damn whole industries and ways of life. They do a lot of good in making sure that the law is being adhered to, and also in lobbying for tighter controls and higher standards. However, I'm not convinced they ultimately do more good than harm, tbh. They scare people away from supporting important causes with their blinkered intolerance of other perspectives.

I produce a good proportion of the food my family eats with my own two hands, but what would I know of food production? 

[IC1967]

The only saving grace for you in your post is that you rescue horses. As for the rest of your post you demonstrate a complete lack of empathy with animals. You view them as part of the food chain and all your beliefs and actions stem from this mistaken view point.

You hunt. A despicable thing to do. You kill animals thus depriving their young of their parents who will then probably go on to starve to death. When you shoot your prey no doubt just before they die they are terror stricken and then often die a slow painful death due to to your lack of accuracy with your weapon. I'd like to see how you would feel if you were hunted. I'd pay to watch that.

You slaughter animals. Another despicable thing to do. Animals are not on this earth just to provide you with sport and food.

You complain about PETA because they expose the food industry. They don't need to try and shock people. They just have to make them aware of what is going on. The way the food industry treats animals is shocking in itself.

My previous link shows how the vast bulk of milk is produced. If you cannot accept this is accurate then please provide us with your version of reality. I think we'll be waiting a long time because you won't  be able to.

I despair of human nature when I read posts such as yours. The meat industry have done a very good job in brainwashing the likes of you to think that what you do is in any way normal.

You need to have a good long hard look at yourself in the mirror and just contemplate the amount of suffering you are responsible for. Once you've done that you need to turn vegan for the rest of your life as a small recompense for your misdeeds. 

[Orlandokarla]

I failed to mention that I train and ride these horses on occasion. I even enjoy it, much to the disdain of PETA, I'm sure. Am I now beyond redemption? 

When you figure out what animals (and humans, for that matter) ARE on this earth for... you know... the meaning of life and all that, be sure to let me know. The Bible states that God gave us dominion over the animals, but I don't take you for the religious sort. 

I currently have 7 horses, and I've found good homes for many more. Every one of them saved from a trip to the slaughterhouse, with the exception of my latest project, a rescue who was perhaps a week away from starving to death. A 1200lb Brabant, ($2000+ in vet bills and counting), who I'm estimating is a good 1100lbs underweight. Don't tell me I lack empathy for animals, when unlike many bleeding-heart animal 'lovers', I put my time, effort and money where my mouth is, 7 days a week.

I view animals in the food chain, in the same way the vast majority of the world currently does, always has, and likely always will. I know you're a big fan of learning from movies, so watch "The Lion King," and the complexities of the "Circle of Life" will be wonderfully explained to you through song.
You'll thank me after.

In regards to hunting, you have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you're talking about. Do yourself a favour and get help regarding your Bambi-related childhood trauma. Your ignorance, as demonstrated, is astounding. The biggest threat to deer is overpopulation. Whether you like it or not, in many places, hunting is a necessity. Shooting a small minority is preferable to wide spread starvation and disease.
The problem is that there are not sufficient predators to keep their population under control, because humans don't hunt them in sufficient numbers anymore. PETA's answer? Let 'em die. Yep, just let them all die. As long as no human benefits from their deaths, and thus doesn't compromise their mission statement, they don't give a crap. No thought, care or consideration is given to the disastrous ecological consequences that would inevitably follow, just so they can feel good about sticking to their lofty principles.

The "what, when, and how many", is strictly controlled in hunting. Nobody shoots Bambi's mother; it's not allowed. Fawns may not die because their mothers get shot, but they certainly die from disease and starvation if the population isn't kept under control, by people like me. I don't especially enjoy it, tbh, but it needs to be done.

Another way to help regulate the population is to assist in increasing the numbers of natural predators, like bears. Perhaps if I had any empathy towards animals, I'd get involved in something like that... 

I do slaughter some animals. Not many, not often, but I do it. I much prefer to sell them whenever possible, but I only have so much room, and I like to know where my food comes from. I treat all of my animals very well, and nothing goes to waste.

I dislike PETA because they are extremists. I don't have much time for fanatics of any kind, political, religious, or otherwise. PETA and those associated with them have used shock tactics for decades, as you well know.
I don't accept PETA's "version of reality", because their propaganda doesn't match my own experience. I'm not saying that there aren't some deplorable farms out there, but such conditions are not the norm, as they would have you believe.
Fair enough?

Thousands of years of animal husbandry, throughout the span of human civilization, has led "people like me" to think the way we do about animals. On the other hand, a couple of decades of vegetarian/vegan propaganda was all it took to have "people like you" crying into your cornflakes.

Nature is about balance, and as long as I'm leaving my little part of the world in a much better state than I found it, I can look at myself in the mirror just fine.

Go ahead and condemn me from your ivory tower.