Ched Evans to sign for oldham

[Askern_reds]

Well answer me bob without falling out? As anyone said how drunk was Evans? Did he no if she wanted to or not ? N no I'm not saying he's innocent at the same time you can't call him guilty

[BillyStubbsTears]

Askern

What is the point of this? A jury spent far longer looking at the evidence than you have done. THEY found him guilty. So yes, Bob, you, I and anyone else on the planet CAN call him guilty. That's how this whole guilty/innocent jive works.

Now, if there was some grave mistake at the trial in the way the evidence was handled, or if there was some key evidence not presented, then he has a strong case at his appeal and good luck to him.

But as it stands, he's guilty of rape. End of story. No point you banging on about it.

[Askern_reds]

I didn't start it ? Lol , if he's guilty he is , if not he's not, what my concern bill is that if a woman crys rape and the man is found not guilty she should put away for the same time as what the man would av got if found guilty? But I think footballers are targets n yes they should no better?

[Lipsy]

Woman in question would be covered, I would have thought. Wasn't even aware that she had been raped and doesn't remember the rape at all. There was no physical evidence to suggest she had been raped; it was only CE's admitting that sex had taken place when questioned that led to the trial/proceedings. I am working from memory here, mind.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: "The girl was too drunk to consent. Evans had sex without her consent. Get it? No consent = RAPE. How much more do you want it spelt out?

And again:"The jury believed her story, and found Evans guilty. Read my lips: "The jury believed her."
He was found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. In a criminal case this is what defines whether the defendant is guilty or not.

   

I'm with you on that. I was just suggesting that the victim couldn't possibly be charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice (or such) for an event she couldn't recall and most especially because she didn't offer any evidence against the accused or indeed make the accusation in the first place.

[BobG]

It's really quite bizarre this isn't it? I can see that, in the circumstances you describe Lipsy, the state would take steps to uphold the law and to bring charges against those involved. But if the victim doesn't know anything about it and made no complaint about it, who on earth brought the event into the light of day???? The whole thing is mind boggling tbh.

BobG

[eastender]

It's really quite bizarre this isn't it? I can see that, in the circumstances you describe Lipsy, the state would take steps to uphold the law and to bring charges against those involved. But if the victim doesn't know anything about it and made no complaint about it, who on earth brought the event into the light of day???? The whole thing is mind boggling tbh.

BobG

Wasn't it the night porter who called the police, because Evans had sneaked into the hotel uninvited and things escalated from there.

[BobG]

Thanks Eastender. I never did get that clear!

Hang on though. Didn't someone earlier in the thread suggest that it was Evans who booked the room? If he did, clearly, he should be able to go into it?!

Shows the problem in trying to interpret partial data, make decisions based on that interpretation and reach conclusions that are inevitably going to be strewn with errors.  Wonder how generals cope?! Lol.

BobG

[Lipsy]

No, I believe the woman called the police next day to report that her handbag had been stolen - she presumed from the hotel room she'd woken up in. She thought that, given her lack of memory of events, that her drink had been spiked. Police investigated from that point. It was the two gents who, on being questioned on the potential spiking issue, freely admitted to having sex with her.

The whole thing boggles, tbh. Able to consent to one but not the other, etc etc...

We don't have all the facts and, frankly, I am glad I have never been on jury service.

[Askern_reds]

We can all have are say we've all got our own opinions? Think it's time now to let whoever to sort it out? Because sooner or later somebody gunna say something they regret, but if I can say one thing he was a fantastic player, I'm a big fan of his as you all know it's a shame it has come to this on such a talented player

[eastender]

Just found this which makes things a bit clearer.

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

[BobG]

Thank you Eastender. Most informative.

It looks like he's bang to rights - but I do wonder just how many other blokes have done something very, very similar? It's the oldest trick in the book isn't it?

Bob

[PDS]

Now then all you bandwagon jumpers, where was all your moral outrage when we signed 2 players involved in a certain incident with a 16 year old girl that she certainly didn't consent to being filmed?

I accept the difference that one incident has resulted in a conviction, the other not but there must be a very fine line between the morality of the individuals involved in each case.

The difference between club hero and pariah

[IDM]

Why is objecting to the signing of a convicted rapist jumping on the bandwagon??

[Wiltshire Exile]

The jury was directed as follows: "When you come back .... you will be asked to return separate verdicts in respect of each of the two defendants. Accordingly, when you retire you must consider the case, that is to say the evidence for and against each of the two defendants separately. Whilst there is a considerable overlap in that evidence, the evidence is not identical, and whilst your verdicts may very well be the same in the case, they might be different. The important thing for you to remember is your approach to the case for and against the defendants must be considered separately."

Given that direction, it was open to the jury to convict both defendants, to acquit both defendants, or to convict one and not the other defendant. That was the point of a joint trial in which separate verdicts were to be returned. It was open to the jury to consider that even if the complainant did not, in fact, consent to sexual intercourse with either of the two men, that in the light of his part in what happened -- the meeting in the street and so on -- McDonald may reasonably have believed that the complainant had consented to sexual activity with him, and at the same time concluded that the applicant knew perfectly well that she had not consented to sexual activity with him (the applicant). The circumstances in which each of the two men came to be involved in the sexual activity was quite different; so indeed were the circumstances in which they left her. Those were matters entirely open to the jury; there was no inconsistency.

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

Exactly!

[Filo]

Now then all you bandwagon jumpers, where was all your moral outrage when we signed 2 players involved in a certain incident with a 16 year old girl that she certainly didn't consent to being filmed?

I accept the difference that one incident has resulted in a conviction, the other not but there must be a very fine line between the morality of the individuals involved in each case.

The difference between club hero and pariah

I assume you mean the Sunderland gang bang? Have you seen the film? It's freely availible on the internet, she was 18 years old and was in full knowledge that it was being filmed, she obviously consented to what went on and did n't raise one objection, mind she did have her mouth full at the time of filming

[eastender]

I assume you mean the Sunderland gang bang? Have you seen the film? It's freely availible on the internet, she was 18 years old and was in full knowledge that it was being filmed, she obviously consented to what went on and did n't raise one objection, mind she did have her mouth full at the time of filming

She had her mouth full, Martin Woods had his hands full. 

[since-1969]

When asked on a questaire if they would sign Evens  Yet to respond – Barnsley, Bradford, Colchester, Doncaster, Leyton Orient, Rochdale others said no. So we could then !

[IDM]

When asked on a questaire if they would sign Evens  Yet to respond – Barnsley, Bradford, Colchester, Doncaster, Leyton Orient, Rochdale others said no. So we could then !

Where's this?

[Yargo]

Evans should sign for Liverpool,they can turn anyone guilty into the victim

[RobTheRover]

I'm still trying to figure out who the last person BobG shot was.

[acko]

the transcript you posted eastender was the refusal of appeal transcript.in other words 3 judges sticking up for the trial judge making comments to the jury of his personell opininion.i beleave evans will win his case and i have said so before.what i cant except is a chief of police and a mp making comments against evans,surely these are people what think convicted prisoners can be re- habiltated while serving their sentence and come out ready to be accepted into society,i strike that as double standards on their parts,and i praise oldham athletic in the stance they making whatever the outcome the have spoke to the f,a and discussing the issue with proper dilligence,not being told what to do by sponsers and patrons(if they have any).the people what have posted their disapproval on line how many are football supporters,and if the same poll was conducted weather or not huntley should have hung what do you think that vote would have said.and what difference would it have made.and finally irrispective of who it is dont you think an appeal against a jurys decision should be allowed and not take nearly 4 years

[IDM]

I am fairly sure that Evans' legal team has lodged (repeated) appeals as soon as they could, not had to wait 4 years!

Isn't this the 3rd appeal anyway?

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but to appeal against a conviction don't you need either a) new evidence including evidence that was missed first time, or b) new forensic methods to examine evidence in more detail than available at the original trial, or c) incorrect legal proceedings carried out (by the judge, barristers etc) in the first trial.


The fact that many more folks sign a petition than go to watch Oldham, just goes to show how strongly people feel about this issue. 

[Bentley Bullet]

http://chedevans.com/frequently-asked-questions

[MiKA]

I'm wondering how many of you have gone out on a night out, got pissed and then got laid ....... I know I have on several occasions and I don't ever remember asking for written consent! In fact on some occasions I've struggled even to remember what happened.  So what if one of those girls then decided after sobering up that she maybe wished she hadn't ..... is that rape?   I could turn it round however and say that maybe I regretted it the next day, is that then rape on the girls part!

This seems like a very grey area to me, if a girl gets drunk and then puts herself in that sort of situation then in some ways she must take some of the blame.  This wasn't just a case of some innocent girl getting jumped on her way home from a night out, had that happened then I could understand the stick that Evans is getting but from how I see it it could have just been a misunderstanding or the girl in question simply changing her mind.

[bpoolrover]

She is entitled to change her mind thou which would still make it rape

[MiKA]

The next day?

[BessieBlue]

If that was your relative - say your daughter/sister - and she got drunk beyond the point you would hope folk would look after her rather than what happened in this case. It possibly isn't rape but the behaviour is totally appalling. At the very least some sort of apology or expression of regret is appropriate!

[Jenny]

But he maintains he didn't rape her, so why should be apologise or show remorse?

[Mike_F]

In reply to Mika:

That's the only issue I've had with any of this. Many a time in my late teens/early 20's I went home/to hotels with girls who were absolutely smashed. As was I. In fact there were several occasions on which I woke up next to lasses I wouldn't have consented to ride in the cold light of day. Some of them may have felt the same about me (although I am a very handsome man so I doubt it but there's no accounting for taste...). I knew on each and every night that I went out on the vodka that I would get into these states and a bit of the other would make for a more enjoyable experience. Does that mean I have been a serial rapist/rape victim? I bet most of us on here have been in similar positions at one time or another.

Fortunately, having read the report on the above link it seems that there was a lot more to the orchestration of Evans turning up, his mates being there to film through the window etc. than I ever indulged in. That element of planning, turning up, getting his portion and sloping off through a fire exit is the sinister part.

[IDM]

I'm wondering how many of you have gone out on a night out, got pissed and then got laid ....... I know I have on several occasions and I don't ever remember asking for written consent! In fact on some occasions I've struggled even to remember what happened.  So what if one of those girls then decided after sobering up that she maybe wished she hadn't ..... is that rape?   I could turn it round however and say that maybe I regretted it the next day, is that then rape on the girls part!

This seems like a very grey area to me, if a girl gets drunk and then puts herself in that sort of situation then in some ways she must take some of the blame.  This wasn't just a case of some innocent girl getting jumped on her way home from a night out, had that happened then I could understand the stick that Evans is getting but from how I see it it could have just been a misunderstanding or the girl in question simply changing her mind.

Looking at what has been posted about the Evans case, your scenario above relates to the other lad. 

It would be very difficult to prove that consent hadn't been given, if the alleged victim couldn't remember giving consent or not, without further evidence.  Just because you can't remember something doesn't mean it didn't happen.  That's my opinion in general, and not about the Evans case.