Italy vs England Euro2020 Final

[dickos1]

This is where the penalty occurred,
Two fouls

https://twitter.com/i/status/1413413405495541761

[dickos1]

Sterling didn’t start falling until the defenders knee clashed with his knee, he then got barged over by the other defender

[IDM]

Let’s not forget that VAR should only advise the on pitch referee to take another look if they think there has been a clear an obvious error.  That gives the on pitch ref an element of “umpires call” like in cricket.  You could argue that if the ref hadn’t awarded the Sterling pen, VAR May have not asked him to check again.?

When the lino standing 15 yards away with a clear line of sight cannot see a double handed shove in Billy Sharp’s back at the south stand end (ok some time ago now) then you need VAR used properly.!!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Haven't seen that footage before. Thanks. That clears it up. There was contact from Maehle.

[RoversAlias]

BST, your approach to this is my big issue with the debate around the penalty (and a lot of similar calls atm with VAR) in that everyone looks at it through this super analytical, in-depth eye which in these instances means slowing it down, zooming in, analysing it in frames and seconds rather than real time.

In real time, Sterling is practically sandwiched by two defenders as he advances in the area. It's clearly a penalty for me. And ultimately, those (elsewhere) using it to try and detract from England making the final are making fools of themselves, because Italy deployed dozens of dark arts tactics against Belgium as have many other teams. Hell, Diego Maradona's hand helped Argentina to World Cup glory in 1986 and all the record books show is that Argentina won the tournament, and rightly so.

[NickDRFC]

I don’t really see the fuss here. It was a soft penalty but can see why it was given, running at that pace. If it had been the other way around a lot of folk on here would be very upset.

[BillyStubbsTears]

RA.
You are reading WAY too much into this.

I wasn't making any moral judgement. I wasn't saying anything about belittling England's achievement. I wasn't making any comparison with any other side.

I was simply interested in the facts. From the video footage I had initially seen, there is no possible way anyone could convincingly say that was or was not a stonewall penalty. The footage Dickos posted shows that there was the lightest of contact.

So that establishes the facts. You're then into interpretation. Linker and Shearer had different opinions on this, which shows you can be passionate in supporting your side and still have honest disagreements. Linker thought there was enough contact to justify a penalty. Shearer didn't.

I agree with both of them that it was so borderline that VAR would not have changed the decision either way.

England got the rub of the green with the ref's decision. That's great. Most sides do get that bit of good luck on the way to a title.

And I'm happy to withdraw my criticism of Jenas's judgement because I clearly misunderstood what he was referring to.

[Jonathan]

Clear penalty. Free kick anywhere on the pitch.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1413413405495541761

I would’ve thought this clears it up really. Penalty.

Edit. Just seen above we all agree.

[SydneyRover]

I thought contact was light on and had a text from a neutral to say 'not a penalty' to which I agreed, but that footage shows the first defender did not make any attempt to get the ball.

[Bentley Bullet]

If the opposition had been given it then I'd have probably said it was a wrong decision, but then I probably would even if it was a blatent penalty! After seeing the replay of the incident in question several times I would say it was either one foul, two fouls or the very least two half fouls.

Verdict from the voice of reason......
Penalty, all day.

[SydneyRover]

report that Foden had a minor knock and didn't train

''England playmaker Phil Foden sat out training on the eve of the Euro 2020 final against Italy with a “minor knock”.

Gareth Southgate’s men are making their final preparations for Sunday’s date with destiny against the Azzurri at Wembley. Foden was conspicuous by his absence from training on Saturday morning, when the rest of the 26-man squad trained at St George’s Park''

the Guardian live

[tyke1962]

A day I thought I'd never see , England in the final of a major tournament after so much disappointment and heartache .

I was 4 years old in 1966 and the whole thing completely passed me by .

The country is absolutely rocking and it's fantastic to have witnessed the joyous scenes around the country after so much tragedy and huge changes in all our lives these last 18 months .

However we may have a gin and tonic in our hand but it falls in to insignificance if we don't pick up the cigar and beat the Italians tomorrow night .

It may well be another 55 years before we make another final , you just don't know and the Belgium's are a classic example of having a top group of players and falling short in tournaments .

We simply have to win tomorrow night in my opinion because personally I'm going to be flat as a fart on Monday morning complete with a hangover .

Let's win the bloody thing .

[DonnyBazR0ver]

From 66 onwards, we'd all say every tournament has been a failure to follow up on our great nations Football heritage with the resources available to us.

Not to have made a major final in 55 years is criminal really but win or lose, this has to be regarded as a success and needs to be built upon for generations to come. Football, has at last come home so let's keep it here by providing the opportunities to develop young talent into the elite of world football so that reaching the final stages of the Euros and World Cups becomes the norm rather than the exception.

If we fail to do that by standing back and admiring it for too long, it'll be another 55 years.

Let's not get too anxious, take it all in tomorrow, then look forward to World Cup next year.

[selby]

  You do not have to make contact with a player for a direct free kick, attempting to kick to making a player change his run and lose the ball,attempting to strike or head butt a player without making contact are still direct free kicks. Not only that the first player did make contact and nowhere in the laws of the game does it compare light or excessive contact they are both fouls.
   The second player could be considered to be charging dangerously and not shoulder to shoulder, also a direct free kick.
   Under the laws of the game a certain penalty.

[sha66y]

2-0 to England, a nice rehearsal before the main event…..the World Cup!

[tyke1962]

I have to say I've some concerns tomorrow night .

My main worry is the Italian central midfield pair of Verratti and Jorginho , we simply cannot let them settle on the ball and dictate the flow of the game .

This is exactly what did for us in the World Cup semi final against Croatia when in the second half Modric got on the ball and took the game away from us .

Phillips and Rice simply have to nullify Veratti and Jorginho far better than they did for the greater part of the first half against Denmark when the Danes gave them the run around .

Italy are a level higher than Denmark and won't necessarily run out of gas as the Danes did .

The play for Kane to drop short worked very well against the Danes but I'd sooner he stick up top tomorrow night and occupy those Italian centre backs with the hope we can get in through the back door as we did against the Germans as I'm expecting a similar type of game .

I firmly believe we can win the game don't get me wrong but Gareth has to get this tactically spot on and the bench maybe is where we will win it in the last 20 minutes .

Incredibly exciting though isn't it .

I can hardly wait .

C'mon England .

[MachoMadness]

Italy have been going hell for leather at this tournament and struggled with extra time in their semi final far more than England did. I wouldn't be so sure they won't fade. They'll be as worried about us as we are about them, though they might not show it.

[drfchound]

I can imagine that similar conversations are happening on the Italian fans forums.
They too will be discussing what they have to do to nullify our best players and worrying about what they need to do to win the game.
Or is it just the English who flap about what might happen?

[GazLaz]

I have to say I've some concerns tomorrow night .

My main worry is the Italian central midfield pair of Verratti and Jorginho , we simply cannot let them settle on the ball and dictate the flow of the game .

This is exactly what did for us in the World Cup semi final against Croatia when in the second half Modric got on the ball and took the game away from us .

Phillips and Rice simply have to nullify Veratti and Jorginho far better than they did for the greater part of the first half against Denmark when the Danes gave them the run around .

Italy are a level higher than Denmark and won't necessarily run out of gas as the Danes did .

The play for Kane to drop short worked very well against the Danes but I'd sooner he stick up top tomorrow night and occupy those Italian centre backs with the hope we can get in through the back door as we did against the Germans as I'm expecting a similar type of game .

I firmly believe we can win the game don't get me wrong but Gareth has to get this tactically spot on and the bench maybe is where we will win it in the last 20 minutes .

Incredibly exciting though isn't it .

I can hardly wait .

C'mon England .

Mount will be the man to try and do a job on Jorginho.

[RoversAlias]

Italy have been going hell for leather at this tournament and struggled with extra time in their semi final far more than England did. I wouldn't be so sure they won't fade. They'll be as worried about us as we are about them, though they might not show it.

I think Mancini and Chiellini showed at the press conference today that they think we are very dangerous and one of the best teams in the world. It is a nice feeling to see England treated this way and deservingly so.

I'm expecting a close game between two evenly matched sides.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

In terms of concerns, my biggest is Pickford.

Through the group stage he was refreshingly calm. As we've progressed and the stakes have raised so has his anxiety. He's started to lose his nerve by ranting and raving and being like a cat on a hot tin roof. He started to make errors and his kicking, one of his major strengths, went to pot.

We need him to be relatively calm and not waste that nervous energy. I saw a clip of Maguire berating him and hope he said to him, 'Calm down, shut up and do your job."

[tyke1962]

Italy have been going hell for leather at this tournament and struggled with extra time in their semi final far more than England did. I wouldn't be so sure they won't fade. They'll be as worried about us as we are about them, though they might not show it.

Well I can remember this was said about Croatia prior to the World Cup semi final and look how that worked out .

It really is a tight game is this and my heart says England but in reality there's hardly anything between the two teams .

Penalties wouldn't be the worst call .

Feckin hell   

[tyke1962]

Don't get me wrong Rice and Phillips are the best we have in central midfield and both are very good at what they do .

But they aren't Toni Kroos at his peak or Luka Modric who get on the ball and dictate the game .

That's my concern at the level we are at tonight .

France may well have won a world cup without a recognised striker but midfield in my opinion is a different kettle of fish at the highest level .

[dickos1]

Don't get me wrong Rice and Phillips are the best we have in central midfield and both are very good at what they do .

But they aren't Toni Kroos at his peak or Luka Modric who get on the ball and dictate the game .

That's my concern at the level we are at tonight .

France may well have won a world cup without a recognised striker but midfield in my opinion is a different kettle of fish at the highest level .

They aren’t but we’ve had players in the past that were, scholes, Beckham, Gerrard, lampard and we did nothing with them.
Southgate has produced a great team not a team full of great players but a great team

[BillyStubbsTears]

Don't get me wrong Rice and Phillips are the best we have in central midfield and both are very good at what they do .

But they aren't Toni Kroos at his peak or Luka Modric who get on the ball and dictate the game .

That's my concern at the level we are at tonight .

France may well have won a world cup without a recognised striker but midfield in my opinion is a different kettle of fish at the highest level .

They aren’t but we’ve had players in the past that were, scholes, Beckham, Gerrard, lampard and we did nothing with them.
Southgate has produced a great team not a team full of great players but a great team

I've been thinking on that all week. Why this side has looked so assured when previous generations often seemed on paper to have better players  but also often (even when they did have some measure of success) often took us on a roller coaster of nailbiting runs through tournaments.

The one that really stands out is the England squad in 1990.
Shilton, Walker, Pearce, Gascoigne, Waddle, Barnes, Beardsley, Lineker. By any objective analysis, you'd put players of that level of ability against most in the world at that time and I'd say that squad compares very favourably man for man with the current one.

But they never, ever looked assured. We groped our way out of the group stage, made very hard work of an ordinary Belgium side and nearly went tits up against Cameroon. It was only against West Germany that we really put in a performance that you'd expect from players of that ability. It felt like a very talented pub side.

I've never really bought the manager argument. There were very few better managers of his generation than Bobby Robson, but he never seemed to be able to get the talented players to perform regularly. Equally, there were few better managers than Capello, but he never got another group of apparently talented players to hit the peaks.

I'm coming to the conclusion that it's the players who have changed. Our more to the point, the type of player that England produces. There's a discipline and intelligence about this group that I've never seen before from England. They are talented, for sure, but they don't rely on flashes of brilliance. They have an organisation about them that any manger would want, but no England manager has previously achieved. Just listening to them interviewed, they sound like they entirely understand what their roles are and more to the point, they go out and play to those roles.

It's like, finally, we have started producing players with a football maturity that you need to gel at international level. The sort of discipline needed to play their precise role for the team and to keep on doing it simply and unflashily from start to finish. The sort that Germany has had a conveyor belt of for half a century.

Southgate has moulded them excellently, but it feels like a more fundamental change going on than that.

[tyke1962]

Don't get me wrong Rice and Phillips are the best we have in central midfield and both are very good at what they do .

But they aren't Toni Kroos at his peak or Luka Modric who get on the ball and dictate the game .

That's my concern at the level we are at tonight .

France may well have won a world cup without a recognised striker but midfield in my opinion is a different kettle of fish at the highest level .

They aren’t but we’ve had players in the past that were, scholes, Beckham, Gerrard, lampard and we did nothing with them.
Southgate has produced a great team not a team full of great players but a great team

I'm absolutely not going to disagree about that and I'm looking tonight for Rice and Phillips to be all over Verratti and Jorginho , sharp in the tackle and get our creative and pacy players running behind that Italian defence .

Sterling , Mount and Saka have the capability to cause absolute mayhem for the Italians .

[Padge_DRFC]

Apart from Kane and Grealish none of this squad are the main man for their clubs like the last squads with Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Terry, Ferdinand etc. No massive egos.

[IDM]

Agree with BST - I’ve been watching world cups and euros since 1978 and we really should have won the titles in 1990 and 96.  But for those penalty shoot outs in the semis, we were better than the other finalist the Germans went on to beat..

[Filo]

Don't get me wrong Rice and Phillips are the best we have in central midfield and both are very good at what they do .

But they aren't Toni Kroos at his peak or Luka Modric who get on the ball and dictate the game .

That's my concern at the level we are at tonight .

France may well have won a world cup without a recognised striker but midfield in my opinion is a different kettle of fish at the highest level .

They aren’t but we’ve had players in the past that were, scholes, Beckham, Gerrard, lampard and we did nothing with them.
Southgate has produced a great team not a team full of great players but a great team

I'm absolutely not going to disagree about that and I'm looking tonight for Rice and Phillips to be all over Verratti and Jorginho , sharp in the tackle and get our creative and pacy players running behind that Italian defence .

Sterling , Mount and Saka have the capability to cause absolute mayhem for the Italians .

The concern I have with Saka is him getting bullied like he did in the Denmark game

[sedwardsdrfc]

When foden came on against Denmark he looked a class above everyone else on the pitch. If fit it’d be between him and Saka for me