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Quote from: wilts rover on August 18, 2022, 03:51:49 pmInflation in the EU - 8.9%. In France, 6.1%, Germany, 7.5%, Italy 7.9%What exactly was it we took back control of again - certainly not the economy.https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=g20Tell us how much they've bailed their energy companies out for?
Inflation in the EU - 8.9%. In France, 6.1%, Germany, 7.5%, Italy 7.9%What exactly was it we took back control of again - certainly not the economy.https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=g20
Quote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on August 18, 2022, 05:43:35 pmQuote from: wilts rover on August 18, 2022, 03:51:49 pmInflation in the EU - 8.9%. In France, 6.1%, Germany, 7.5%, Italy 7.9%What exactly was it we took back control of again - certainly not the economy.https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=g20Tell us how much they've bailed their energy companies out for?Apparently inflation is due to the energy prices going up due to the war in Ukraine.So why has it gone up highest in the country furthest away from Ukraine - that imports little oil and gas from Russia - and is an actual exporter of oil and gas?
Interesting that those on 100% renewable electricity have had their prices increased along with the rest of us.
Quote from: i_ateallthepies link=topic=283698.msg1180247#msg1180247 date=1660846001Interesting that those on 100% renewable electricity have had their prices increased along with the rest of us.That's market forces.The value and therefore the price of electricity, from whatever source is the same. If there's less electricity being produced by gas but people still want to consume as much, the price of that electricity goes up. But then the producers of wind generated gas can also charge more for their product.If we want to live in a market economy, that's how the market works.
Quote from: i_ateallthepies on August 18, 2022, 07:06:41 pmInteresting that those on 100% renewable electricity have had their prices increased along with the rest of us.That's market forces.The value and therefore the price of electricity, from whatever source is the same. If there's less electricity being produced by gas but people still want to consume as much, the price of that electricity goes up. But then the producers of wind generated gas can also charge more for their product.If we want to live in a market economy, that's how the market works.
I'm not excusing it Pies. I'm just explaining how the market works.A far, far more knowledgeable person than me on economics (and a more left wing one than me) said on Twitter recently that it was pointless complaining about companies maximising their profits. It's what they do. It's what their directors are pretty much legally obliged to do. He said you might as well criticise a cat for catching a mouse.The market works how the market works. The price of renewables makes perfect sense in the context of a free market.The real question is: should we have a free market in electricity, or should the Govt step in and control it in the national interest?
DD.The rail privatisation was so badly conceived that:1) Railtrack presided over catastrophic mismanagemt of the rails, resulting in a string of accidents with mass fatalities, 3 years of the network virtually grinding to a standstill (I used to plan on a Sheffield-Lobdon train taking 4 hours minimum when travelling to the smoke for work) and Railtrack being renationalised. Railtrack was the fall guy who took the rap for the botched privatisation that allowed the profitable assets to be sold off separately whilst this company was set up to manage the rotten infrastructure that years of government under funding had created., i did say in my piece that we can argue till the cows come home about the methodology used to carry out the sale but it doesn't change the fact that it needed open heart surgery The three major crashes with fatalities were caused by the under funding and mismanagement of the railway infrastructure whilst in government hands, one was thought to be a suicidal drivers fault but it could never be proven. The Midland Mainline from Sheffield to St Pancras was always the bridesmaid line when compared to the East and West cost Mainlines, it had the least funding and was neglected badly both during and after privatisation, its now finally getting money spent on it and will be electrified to bring it up to scratch with the other main lines./color]2) Bigger public subsidies than ever were spent when the trains were publicly owned.This increase in the public subsidy was to kick start the modernisation of the network, its a known fact that large parts of the network would never stand on their own in financial terms and had to be subsidised, this enabled private money to come in and provide the capital that was needed to kick start the upgrades that the state on its own had refused to do for the period of up to 30 years before right until it was all signed off to go private, 3) Several of the TOCs still going bust and having to be renationalised.This is true because the franchising model was never the correct way to deal with the privatisation, at the time only a very few routes made a profit, the rest had to be granted subsidies to enable the private sector to take on these loss making concerns, up until 2018 most where starting to turn to profit with reducing subsidies written into the contracts,the pandemic finished off a good few, but the initial franchise was a flawed method. 4) Foreign state owned companies taking over much of our system.The reason many foreign state railways have taken over much of our system is because they could see that there was money to be made, most of these (DB, SNCF, NS, Swedish) now use the profits they make here to subsides their own networks at home. The fact they outbid British companies to buy into railways should tell you plenty.5) To add insult to injury for us, the private sector gave so few f**ks about us oop north, they continued until last year to use 40 year old Pacer trains that they couldn't even give away to Iran.True, but money is finally being spent and has been spent on upgrading the infrastructure in the north, the pacers are now long gone more than a year ago and new stock now covers these tub road railways. Apart from that, privatisation was grand. If you ask people who dont have political axes to grind about the state of the railways now compared to what existed before 96 they will tell you it has improved noticeably, things can always be better but knowing what was then compared to now you would have to a be very one eyed to say different, yes there is issues with the franchising model, the fares structure and the amount of money that is being wasted by the Government on its vanity project HS2 but the railways up to the pandemic were in far better shape then they had been for many years prior, very easy to knock it but i've travelled across most of the network in Europe and i can tell you that outside of the High profile intercity lines the railways in Europe on the level below this is far inferior to our national network, in punctuality, quality and frequency and that includes France, Germany, Spain and Italy the urban, cross country and local services are worse than ours../color]
Lets talk about old BR, every man and his dog had a joke and a tale to tell about the efficiency and poor performance of British Rail. badly underfunded, poor rolling stock, badly maintained infrastructure, late and cramped trains very poor catering with poor old BR sandwiches becoming the thing of legend, all performed by management and staff with no accountability for the money that was being spent "its only paper money" was the big mantra.Hmm, so not much different from what we have now then!DD, might I politely ask when you last travelled by train. To those of us who have had the misfortune to use them regularly for work could I just flag a couple of points:- Travel before 10 am and you need to take out another mortgage; it's often cheaper to fly- In peak hours you will struggle to get a seat unless you hold a reservation- Delays are regular and for all sorts of reasons; signal failure, a broken down train in front, lack of staff...- Commuter trains have too few carriages- Some journey times e.g. Liverpool to Manchester take longer now than 100 years ago- £4k a season ticket if you live in the S East; that's out of net income by the way- 'Catering' is no better than a Tesco meal deal but costs twice as muchSeriously, we have one of the worst, most underfunded, mismanaged rail networks of any 'top rank' western nation.
To bring the discussion back on topicThose who advocate renationalising the railways do realise that if we were in the EU or were to rejoin the EU this would not be possible under EU law?www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/4th-railway-package/"The 4th railway package includes the proposal to open up domestic passenger railways to new entrants and services. Companies would be able either to offer competing services, such as a new train service on a particular route, or to bid for public service rail contracts through tendering. The proposed changes would make competitive tendering mandatory for public service rail contracts in the EU."Similar proposals are in the pipeline for other public utilities including energy markets.So the choice to vote for parties advocating nationalisation of public services is yet another democratic right soon to be removed from the electorate in EU states.Still Ode to Joy great tune eh?
Quote from: wilts rover on August 18, 2022, 06:18:57 pmQuote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on August 18, 2022, 05:43:35 pmQuote from: wilts rover on August 18, 2022, 03:51:49 pmInflation in the EU - 8.9%. In France, 6.1%, Germany, 7.5%, Italy 7.9%What exactly was it we took back control of again - certainly not the economy.https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=g20Tell us how much they've bailed their energy companies out for?Apparently inflation is due to the energy prices going up due to the war in Ukraine.So why has it gone up highest in the country furthest away from Ukraine - that imports little oil and gas from Russia - and is an actual exporter of oil and gas?Because we're more reliant on gas for our energy than the eurozone - particularly France for instance thanks to them embracing nuclear.Thanks for the link Wilts - always interesting to compare UK economic performance vs other countries. Using that resource: -Latest inflation figures: UK - 10.1%; Eurozone - 8.9%. In France, 6.1%, Germany, 7.5%, Italy 7.9%Latest wage growth figures: UK: 5.1%; Eurozone: 2.7%; France: 0.5%; Germany: -1.4%; Italy: 1%So real wages are falling more quickly in the Eurozone, France, Germany and Italy than they are in the UKThis is an ongoing trend - from a post I put up on this thread several weeks ago: -"Over the 3 years to April 2022 real wage growth was 4.6% in the UK - it was in Germany (1.7%); France (1.4%); and the Eurozone (2.6%)."So why is it that real wages have grown quickest and now, with major global price inflation, are falling slowest in the only major Western European economy outside the European Union?
Lets talk about old BR, every man and his dog had a joke and a tale to tell about the efficiency and poor performance of British Rail. badly underfunded, poor rolling stock, badly maintained infrastructure, late and cramped trains very poor catering with poor old BR sandwiches becoming the thing of legend, all performed by management and staff with no accountability for the money that was being spent "its only paper money" was the big mantra.Hmm, so not much different from what we have now then!DD, might I politely ask when you last travelled by train. To those of us who have had the misfortune to use them regularly for work could I just flag a couple of points: I use trains regularly have done for years and seen the changes.- Travel before 10 am and you need to take out another mortgage; it's often cheaper to fly. If you have a business with a peak time element you would charge more, anyone would. I'd like to see you catch a plane from city centre to city centre.- In peak hours you will struggle to get a seat unless you hold a reservation. All tickets now sold for inter city trains are sold with a reservation.- Delays are regular and for all sorts of reasons; signal failure, a broken down train in front, lack of staff...Try using the M1 or A1 at the same time of morning and tell me its any different.- Commuter trains have too few carriages. Most major commuter routes have had their platforms extended to allow for longer commute trains, 12 car trains are now the norm into most major south east termini.- Some journey times e.g. Liverpool to Manchester take longer now than 100 years ago. That's because there are more people now who want to catch a train so they have more stops to pick up from, not much point having a train from Donny to London none stop for example.- £4k a season ticket if you live in the S East; that's out of net income by the way. If you live in the south east and travel into London every day then you should be able to pay for that season ticket, try using a car for the same journey, the parking fees would be more.- 'Catering' is no better than a Tesco meal deal but costs twice as much. Agreed.Seriously, we have one of the worst, most underfunded, mismanaged rail networks of any 'top rank' western nation. Still waiting for you to provide some evidence that this is true.
Quote from: BigH on August 19, 2022, 08:35:52 pmLets talk about old BR, every man and his dog had a joke and a tale to tell about the efficiency and poor performance of British Rail. badly underfunded, poor rolling stock, badly maintained infrastructure, late and cramped trains very poor catering with poor old BR sandwiches becoming the thing of legend, all performed by management and staff with no accountability for the money that was being spent "its only paper money" was the big mantra.Hmm, so not much different from what we have now then!DD, might I politely ask when you last travelled by train. To those of us who have had the misfortune to use them regularly for work could I just flag a couple of points:- Travel before 10 am and you need to take out another mortgage; it's often cheaper to fly- In peak hours you will struggle to get a seat unless you hold a reservation- Delays are regular and for all sorts of reasons; signal failure, a broken down train in front, lack of staff...- Commuter trains have too few carriages- Some journey times e.g. Liverpool to Manchester take longer now than 100 years ago- £4k a season ticket if you live in the S East; that's out of net income by the way- 'Catering' is no better than a Tesco meal deal but costs twice as muchSeriously, we have one of the worst, most underfunded, mismanaged rail networks of any 'top rank' western nation.Would you like to provide some evidence for that statement because i would be interested to see you do so.
Lets talk about old BR, every man and his dog had a joke and a tale to tell about the efficiency and poor performance of British Rail. badly underfunded, poor rolling stock, badly maintained infrastructure, late and cramped trains very poor catering with poor old BR sandwiches becoming the thing of legend, all performed by management and staff with no accountability for the money that was being spent "its only paper money" was the big mantra.Hmm, so not much different from what we have now then!DD, might I politely ask when you last travelled by train. To those of us who have had the misfortune to use them regularly for work could I just flag a couple of points:- Travel before 10 am and you need to take out another mortgage; it's often cheaper to fly- In peak hours you will struggle to get a seat unless you hold a reservation- Delays are regular and for all sorts of reasons; signal failure, a broken down train in front, lack of staff...- Commuter trains have too few carriages- Some journey times e.g. Liverpool to Manchester take longer now than 100 years ago- £4k a season ticket if you live in the S East; that's out of net income by the way- 'Catering' is no better than a Tesco meal deal but costs twice as muchSeriously, we have one of the worst, most underfunded, mismanaged rail networks of any 'top rank' western nation.
Quote from: danumdon on August 19, 2022, 09:56:47 pmQuote from: BigH on August 19, 2022, 08:35:52 pmLets talk about old BR, every man and his dog had a joke and a tale to tell about the efficiency and poor performance of British Rail. badly underfunded, poor rolling stock, badly maintained infrastructure, late and cramped trains very poor catering with poor old BR sandwiches becoming the thing of legend, all performed by management and staff with no accountability for the money that was being spent "its only paper money" was the big mantra.Hmm, so not much different from what we have now then!DD, might I politely ask when you last travelled by train. To those of us who have had the misfortune to use them regularly for work could I just flag a couple of points:- Travel before 10 am and you need to take out another mortgage; it's often cheaper to fly- In peak hours you will struggle to get a seat unless you hold a reservation- Delays are regular and for all sorts of reasons; signal failure, a broken down train in front, lack of staff...- Commuter trains have too few carriages- Some journey times e.g. Liverpool to Manchester take longer now than 100 years ago- £4k a season ticket if you live in the S East; that's out of net income by the way- 'Catering' is no better than a Tesco meal deal but costs twice as muchSeriously, we have one of the worst, most underfunded, mismanaged rail networks of any 'top rank' western nation.Would you like to provide some evidence for that statement because i would be interested to see you do so.Well for a start only 20% of trains are running at present.Rather than send me on a fool’s errand why don’t you reflect on the many and various reasons why that’s the case.
Quote from: BigH on August 19, 2022, 08:35:52 pmLets talk about old BR, every man and his dog had a joke and a tale to tell about the efficiency and poor performance of British Rail. badly underfunded, poor rolling stock, badly maintained infrastructure, late and cramped trains very poor catering with poor old BR sandwiches becoming the thing of legend, all performed by management and staff with no accountability for the money that was being spent "its only paper money" was the big mantra.Hmm, so not much different from what we have now then!DD, might I politely ask when you last travelled by train. To those of us who have had the misfortune to use them regularly for work could I just flag a couple of points:- Travel before 10 am and you need to take out another mortgage; it's often cheaper to fly- In peak hours you will struggle to get a seat unless you hold a reservation- Delays are regular and for all sorts of reasons; signal failure, a broken down train in front, lack of staff...- Commuter trains have too few carriages- Some journey times e.g. Liverpool to Manchester take longer now than 100 years ago- £4k a season ticket if you live in the S East; that's out of net income by the way- 'Catering' is no better than a Tesco meal deal but costs twice as muchSeriously, we have one of the worst, most underfunded, mismanaged rail networks of any 'top rank' western nation.Would you like to provide some evidence for that statement because i would be interested to see you do so.
Lets talk about old BR, every man and his dog had a joke and a tale to tell about the efficiency and poor performance of British Rail. badly underfunded, poor rolling stock, badly maintained infrastructure, late and cramped trains very poor catering with poor old BR sandwiches becoming the thing of legend, all performed by management and staff with no accountability for the money that was being spent "its only paper money" was the big mantra.Hmm, so not much different from what we have now then!DD, might I politely ask when you last travelled by train. To those of us who have had the misfortune to use them regularly for work could I just flag a couple of points:- Travel before 10 am and you need to take out another mortgage; it's often cheaper to fly- In peak hours you will struggle to get a seat unless you hold a reservation- Delays are regular and for all sorts of reasons; signal failure, a broken down train in front, lack of staff...- Commuter trains have too few carriages- Some journey times e.g. Liverpool to Manchester take longer now than 100 years ago- £4k a season ticket if you live in the S East; that's out of net income by the way- 'Catering' is no better than a Tesco meal deal but costs twice as muchSeriously, we have one of the worst, most underfunded, mismanaged rail networks of any 'top rank' western nation.