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Quote from: TonySoprano on May 08, 2024, 10:17:45 amQuote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:00:44 amQuote from: The Beast on May 07, 2024, 11:48:07 pmCould we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?Yes you could.But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ? Sorry if I'm being daft. I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway. Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.
Quote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:00:44 amQuote from: The Beast on May 07, 2024, 11:48:07 pmCould we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?Yes you could.But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ? Sorry if I'm being daft. I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway.
Quote from: The Beast on May 07, 2024, 11:48:07 pmCould we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?Yes you could.But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 08, 2024, 11:43:54 amQuote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:56:57 amQuote from: TonySoprano on May 08, 2024, 10:17:45 amQuote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:00:44 amQuote from: The Beast on May 07, 2024, 11:48:07 pmCould we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?Yes you could.But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ? Sorry if I'm being daft. I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway. Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.As you'll remember from previous exchanges, I'm sceptical that this increase would be achievable simply. Apart from the basic area of terrace (which I don't think works - you were going to send me some calculations from the architect who was advising you years ago but I never got them), there's the issues of ingress and egress rates which I think would be very strained with the current set up if we increased the West stand capacity by 70%.I'd be delighted to be wrong about this - these are mainly hunches from my own professional background in this area.Then there’s the infrastructure toilets, catering etc. it won’t happen in our life time will it.
Quote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:56:57 amQuote from: TonySoprano on May 08, 2024, 10:17:45 amQuote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:00:44 amQuote from: The Beast on May 07, 2024, 11:48:07 pmCould we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?Yes you could.But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ? Sorry if I'm being daft. I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway. Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.As you'll remember from previous exchanges, I'm sceptical that this increase would be achievable simply. Apart from the basic area of terrace (which I don't think works - you were going to send me some calculations from the architect who was advising you years ago but I never got them), there's the issues of ingress and egress rates which I think would be very strained with the current set up if we increased the West stand capacity by 70%.I'd be delighted to be wrong about this - these are mainly hunches from my own professional background in this area.
On tours of the ground you're told the expansion can happen in the voids behind the back of the North and South stands. The corrugated metal sheet, where flags and advertising hang, hides the steels that hold the concrete for the seats. A few extra rows can be added there. Is this true?
At a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”
We might as well bin the screen off and put the seats back. It hasn’t worked properly for ages
It does feel like you are kebab meat when it goes red, and I'm sat 40 yards from it.
Would safe standing actually increase the capacity of the SS though? My understanding is that railSeating still uses the same space as a seat ?
Quote from: DD on May 08, 2024, 01:12:17 pmAt a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”It WOULD be relatively easy to introduce it if you kept the capacity the same.
At a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 08, 2024, 04:33:54 pmQuote from: DD on May 08, 2024, 01:12:17 pmAt a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”It WOULD be relatively easy to introduce it if you kept the capacity the same.Yes using today’s technology.However at that point it wasn’t legal, therefore I can’t understand any architect saying it would be easy when there were no regulations applicable nor examples to refer to.
Quote from: DD on May 08, 2024, 01:12:17 pmAt a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”It WOULD be relatively easy to introduce it if you kept the capacity the same.
At a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”
Quote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 06:27:02 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 08, 2024, 04:33:54 pmQuote from: DD on May 08, 2024, 01:12:17 pmAt a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”It WOULD be relatively easy to introduce it if you kept the capacity the same.Yes using today’s technology.However at that point it wasn’t legal, therefore I can’t understand any architect saying it would be easy when there were no regulations applicable nor examples to refer to. Maybe it was a "in principle it could be relatively easy depending on details, if and when etc, etc". Any professional in the game even back then would have known that the technical solutions for the seating area in isolation weren't hard.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 08, 2024, 04:33:54 pmQuote from: DD on May 08, 2024, 01:12:17 pmAt a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”It WOULD be relatively easy to introduce it if you kept the capacity the same.Yes using today’s technology.However at that point it wasn’t legal, therefore I can’t understand any architect saying it would be easy when there were no regulations applicable nor examples to refer to.
Quote from: DD on May 08, 2024, 01:12:17 pmAt a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”It WOULD be relatively easy to introduce it if you kept the capacity the same.
At a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”
If we put on an extra tier we would lose some of the road around the ground in that area. Sure there would be room to move it further back.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 08, 2024, 06:08:27 pmIt does feel like you are kebab meat when it goes red, and I'm sat 40 yards from it.Bloody Hell BST, you sound far too close for comfort
Quote from: GazLaz on May 08, 2024, 07:29:09 pmIf we put on an extra tier we would lose some of the road around the ground in that area. Sure there would be room to move it further back. Not absolutely necessarily. An extra tier could fit above the concourse, and wouldn't necessarily require new structure down to ground level outside the footprint of the existing stadium.Ingress and egress to an upper tier might be a challenge to fit in within the existing footprint, mind.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 08, 2024, 07:43:30 pmQuote from: GazLaz on May 08, 2024, 07:29:09 pmIf we put on an extra tier we would lose some of the road around the ground in that area. Sure there would be room to move it further back. Not absolutely necessarily. An extra tier could fit above the concourse, and wouldn't necessarily require new structure down to ground level outside the footprint of the existing stadium.Ingress and egress to an upper tier might be a challenge to fit in within the existing footprint, mind.Very very unlikely they would be able to add another tier without putting in extra piles in that road and building out.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 08, 2024, 12:07:35 amSomething else to bear in mind.When we won this division in 03/04, at a time when we were full of drive and optimism, our average attendance was under 7000.We've topped that this year, even though we've been in the bottom 6 for the majority of the season.Plus, in 03/04, we had a lot of local derbies. Hull, Huddersfield, Scunthorpe, Mansfield, Lincoln, York. Nothing like that this year. EDIT. On second thoughts, I'm maybe overplaying this a bit. I was only thinking of Bradford and Mansfield. I forgot Notts C, Grimsby, Stockport and Wrexham all bringing good away followings.I know the counter argument. That was in OBV. But that's part of the point. Over the last decade and a half, we've had a generation of new supporters who have joined us in a modern stadium, with, generally, decent, successful, high-ish level football being served up. That's a generation that is secured for the long haul, whereas when we last made the Championship, we were still coming out of 50 years of failure and low interest in the town.Note that, even when we spent nearly all of 16/17 in the top 5 of this division, we only just topped 6000 as an average.This year's, and even last year's attendances indicate that something has changed. There's a bigger bedrock of loyal fans than we've had in my lifetime now. I suspect that if we did become established in the Championship (big if) we'd be selling out the home tickets pretty much every week. Worth pondering in terms of what the potential fanbase now is.Agree with most of that BST with the exception of Stockports following this season
Something else to bear in mind.When we won this division in 03/04, at a time when we were full of drive and optimism, our average attendance was under 7000.We've topped that this year, even though we've been in the bottom 6 for the majority of the season.Plus, in 03/04, we had a lot of local derbies. Hull, Huddersfield, Scunthorpe, Mansfield, Lincoln, York. Nothing like that this year. EDIT. On second thoughts, I'm maybe overplaying this a bit. I was only thinking of Bradford and Mansfield. I forgot Notts C, Grimsby, Stockport and Wrexham all bringing good away followings.I know the counter argument. That was in OBV. But that's part of the point. Over the last decade and a half, we've had a generation of new supporters who have joined us in a modern stadium, with, generally, decent, successful, high-ish level football being served up. That's a generation that is secured for the long haul, whereas when we last made the Championship, we were still coming out of 50 years of failure and low interest in the town.Note that, even when we spent nearly all of 16/17 in the top 5 of this division, we only just topped 6000 as an average.This year's, and even last year's attendances indicate that something has changed. There's a bigger bedrock of loyal fans than we've had in my lifetime now. I suspect that if we did become established in the Championship (big if) we'd be selling out the home tickets pretty much every week. Worth pondering in terms of what the potential fanbase now is.
What about the option to dig down and put in three to four extra rows of seating all the way around the ground. This would get fans closer to the action and be in top of the game more. A bit like at Rotherham.There is the space to do this easily.
Quote from: danumdon on May 08, 2024, 06:22:42 pm Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 08, 2024, 06:08:27 pmIt does feel like you are kebab meat when it goes red, and I'm sat 40 yards from it.Bloody Hell BST, you sound far too close for comfort Yep. I'm that t**t just down from you...
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 08, 2024, 07:45:58 pmQuote from: danumdon on May 08, 2024, 06:22:42 pm Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 08, 2024, 06:08:27 pmIt does feel like you are kebab meat when it goes red, and I'm sat 40 yards from it.Bloody Hell BST, you sound far too close for comfort Yep. I'm that t**t just down from you...Yep, but the trouble is there are a few just down from me, they all look like your avatar!