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Quote from: River Don on November 26, 2021, 10:04:19 amQuote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 09:58:00 amVery disturbing news coming out of South Africa. The R rate is Gauteng where the new variant is prevalent is around 2. I’m not confident us and the Eu preventing flights from South Africa will stop its spread. People will find a way and just fly via another country like the Middle East. It is coming to the uk sooner or later. That’s if it’s not here already. The big question is around transmissibility. And will the vaccines to date stand up to it. I see airline shares have tanked this morning. Tui down 10%. IAG down 15%. Not good signs . I am fully prepared for another national lockdown. The govt are playing this down. I fear we are going to get caught with our pants down again. Very dispiriting news this.They should be making mask wearing mandatory in public spaces this morning. They should be encouraging social distancing again.As ever with this, act fast ask questions later.I think you will find that there will now be a large number of people in this country who will simply ignore all future restrictions which is healthy.
Quote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 09:58:00 amVery disturbing news coming out of South Africa. The R rate is Gauteng where the new variant is prevalent is around 2. I’m not confident us and the Eu preventing flights from South Africa will stop its spread. People will find a way and just fly via another country like the Middle East. It is coming to the uk sooner or later. That’s if it’s not here already. The big question is around transmissibility. And will the vaccines to date stand up to it. I see airline shares have tanked this morning. Tui down 10%. IAG down 15%. Not good signs . I am fully prepared for another national lockdown. The govt are playing this down. I fear we are going to get caught with our pants down again. Very dispiriting news this.They should be making mask wearing mandatory in public spaces this morning. They should be encouraging social distancing again.As ever with this, act fast ask questions later.
Very disturbing news coming out of South Africa. The R rate is Gauteng where the new variant is prevalent is around 2. I’m not confident us and the Eu preventing flights from South Africa will stop its spread. People will find a way and just fly via another country like the Middle East. It is coming to the uk sooner or later. That’s if it’s not here already. The big question is around transmissibility. And will the vaccines to date stand up to it. I see airline shares have tanked this morning. Tui down 10%. IAG down 15%. Not good signs . I am fully prepared for another national lockdown. The govt are playing this down. I fear we are going to get caught with our pants down again.
Quote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 09:40:14 amQuote from: River Don on November 26, 2021, 09:31:02 amI'm sorry CDH but the benefits of vacinnation are clear.In not being upto date with your vacinnes you are a danger to yourself and others. It's simply antisocial behaviour.Dear oh dear. 1. I am not a danger to myself because the virus doesn't kill 99.9% of people, let alone many people in their 40's. Therefore the risk to me is negligible even without a vaccine. 2. Even if i was at a greatly increased risk from Covid, it is still my choice whether i wish to dance with danger or not. Nobody elses. My body, my choice. 3. Vaccinated people still pass on Covid to others. The delta variant for example shows next to no difference in transmissability between the jabbed and unjabbed. Therefore, jabbed people are just as much a risk to others as the unjabbed. Not sure why people don't understand this simple concept. 4. Even if the vaccine 100% stopped Covid. It is still the choice of the individual whether to have a vaccine injected into their body. 5. I am very anti social yes. By choice. If i wasn't then i'd probably be in prison. Re point 1. Don’t get too obsessed with covid killing people. There are plenty of young healthy people who have had it and suffering long term affects. Long covid. Debilitating. Re point 2. I understand from a previous post that you have a disorder and as such you may be medicated. If, good forbid, you got poorly through covid, who would you turn to? Your choice you say. What if the nhs chose not to treat people who they classed as irresponsible. The very organisation that I have no doubt you will have received support from previously and May still do? Perhaps you would just advocate an every man for himself policy? In which case……….Point 5. I think prison may be a good option for you.
Quote from: River Don on November 26, 2021, 09:31:02 amI'm sorry CDH but the benefits of vacinnation are clear.In not being upto date with your vacinnes you are a danger to yourself and others. It's simply antisocial behaviour.Dear oh dear. 1. I am not a danger to myself because the virus doesn't kill 99.9% of people, let alone many people in their 40's. Therefore the risk to me is negligible even without a vaccine. 2. Even if i was at a greatly increased risk from Covid, it is still my choice whether i wish to dance with danger or not. Nobody elses. My body, my choice. 3. Vaccinated people still pass on Covid to others. The delta variant for example shows next to no difference in transmissability between the jabbed and unjabbed. Therefore, jabbed people are just as much a risk to others as the unjabbed. Not sure why people don't understand this simple concept. 4. Even if the vaccine 100% stopped Covid. It is still the choice of the individual whether to have a vaccine injected into their body. 5. I am very anti social yes. By choice. If i wasn't then i'd probably be in prison.
I'm sorry CDH but the benefits of vacinnation are clear.In not being upto date with your vacinnes you are a danger to yourself and others. It's simply antisocial behaviour.
Quote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 10:18:41 amQuote from: River Don on November 26, 2021, 10:04:19 amQuote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 09:58:00 amVery disturbing news coming out of South Africa. The R rate is Gauteng where the new variant is prevalent is around 2. I’m not confident us and the Eu preventing flights from South Africa will stop its spread. People will find a way and just fly via another country like the Middle East. It is coming to the uk sooner or later. That’s if it’s not here already. The big question is around transmissibility. And will the vaccines to date stand up to it. I see airline shares have tanked this morning. Tui down 10%. IAG down 15%. Not good signs . I am fully prepared for another national lockdown. The govt are playing this down. I fear we are going to get caught with our pants down again. Very dispiriting news this.They should be making mask wearing mandatory in public spaces this morning. They should be encouraging social distancing again.As ever with this, act fast ask questions later.I think you will find that there will now be a large number of people in this country who will simply ignore all future restrictions which is healthy. How could that be healthy?
Quote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 10:27:20 amQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 09:40:14 amQuote from: River Don on November 26, 2021, 09:31:02 amI'm sorry CDH but the benefits of vacinnation are clear.In not being upto date with your vacinnes you are a danger to yourself and others. It's simply antisocial behaviour.Dear oh dear. 1. I am not a danger to myself because the virus doesn't kill 99.9% of people, let alone many people in their 40's. Therefore the risk to me is negligible even without a vaccine. 2. Even if i was at a greatly increased risk from Covid, it is still my choice whether i wish to dance with danger or not. Nobody elses. My body, my choice. 3. Vaccinated people still pass on Covid to others. The delta variant for example shows next to no difference in transmissability between the jabbed and unjabbed. Therefore, jabbed people are just as much a risk to others as the unjabbed. Not sure why people don't understand this simple concept. 4. Even if the vaccine 100% stopped Covid. It is still the choice of the individual whether to have a vaccine injected into their body. 5. I am very anti social yes. By choice. If i wasn't then i'd probably be in prison. Re point 1. Don’t get too obsessed with covid killing people. There are plenty of young healthy people who have had it and suffering long term affects. Long covid. Debilitating. Re point 2. I understand from a previous post that you have a disorder and as such you may be medicated. If, good forbid, you got poorly through covid, who would you turn to? Your choice you say. What if the nhs chose not to treat people who they classed as irresponsible. The very organisation that I have no doubt you will have received support from previously and May still do? Perhaps you would just advocate an every man for himself policy? In which case……….Point 5. I think prison may be a good option for you.1. I have M.E and therefore Long Covid would be a walk in the park. If you know any M.E sufferers then you'd understand. All Long Covid is is another form of post viral syndrome. There are plenty out there but yet only Long Covid matters apparently. Not bothered at all by Long Covid. 2. There are no medications for my 'conditions'. The support i have received from the NHS has been none existent. 3. The NHS treat people who play football and break their legs. They treat idiots who go climbing mountains or go hiking in the Peak District using a mobile phone as navigation. They treat alcoholics. Smokers. They treat people with all sorts of self inflicted or avoidable injuries caused by irresponsible people. Yet you say they should make those who choose to remain unjabbed or who resist restrictions should not receive treatment?4. I believe it is you who should be in prison my friend lol
Quote from: River Don on November 26, 2021, 10:33:10 amQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 10:18:41 amQuote from: River Don on November 26, 2021, 10:04:19 amQuote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 09:58:00 amVery disturbing news coming out of South Africa. The R rate is Gauteng where the new variant is prevalent is around 2. I’m not confident us and the Eu preventing flights from South Africa will stop its spread. People will find a way and just fly via another country like the Middle East. It is coming to the uk sooner or later. That’s if it’s not here already. The big question is around transmissibility. And will the vaccines to date stand up to it. I see airline shares have tanked this morning. Tui down 10%. IAG down 15%. Not good signs . I am fully prepared for another national lockdown. The govt are playing this down. I fear we are going to get caught with our pants down again. Very dispiriting news this.They should be making mask wearing mandatory in public spaces this morning. They should be encouraging social distancing again.As ever with this, act fast ask questions later.I think you will find that there will now be a large number of people in this country who will simply ignore all future restrictions which is healthy. How could that be healthy?It is for most people. It is called normality and accepting the virus.
Quote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 10:36:53 amQuote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 10:27:20 amQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 09:40:14 amQuote from: River Don on November 26, 2021, 09:31:02 amI'm sorry CDH but the benefits of vacinnation are clear.In not being upto date with your vacinnes you are a danger to yourself and others. It's simply antisocial behaviour.Dear oh dear. 1. I am not a danger to myself because the virus doesn't kill 99.9% of people, let alone many people in their 40's. Therefore the risk to me is negligible even without a vaccine. 2. Even if i was at a greatly increased risk from Covid, it is still my choice whether i wish to dance with danger or not. Nobody elses. My body, my choice. 3. Vaccinated people still pass on Covid to others. The delta variant for example shows next to no difference in transmissability between the jabbed and unjabbed. Therefore, jabbed people are just as much a risk to others as the unjabbed. Not sure why people don't understand this simple concept. 4. Even if the vaccine 100% stopped Covid. It is still the choice of the individual whether to have a vaccine injected into their body. 5. I am very anti social yes. By choice. If i wasn't then i'd probably be in prison. Re point 1. Don’t get too obsessed with covid killing people. There are plenty of young healthy people who have had it and suffering long term affects. Long covid. Debilitating. Re point 2. I understand from a previous post that you have a disorder and as such you may be medicated. If, good forbid, you got poorly through covid, who would you turn to? Your choice you say. What if the nhs chose not to treat people who they classed as irresponsible. The very organisation that I have no doubt you will have received support from previously and May still do? Perhaps you would just advocate an every man for himself policy? In which case……….Point 5. I think prison may be a good option for you.1. I have M.E and therefore Long Covid would be a walk in the park. If you know any M.E sufferers then you'd understand. All Long Covid is is another form of post viral syndrome. There are plenty out there but yet only Long Covid matters apparently. Not bothered at all by Long Covid. 2. There are no medications for my 'conditions'. The support i have received from the NHS has been none existent. 3. The NHS treat people who play football and break their legs. They treat idiots who go climbing mountains or go hiking in the Peak District using a mobile phone as navigation. They treat alcoholics. Smokers. They treat people with all sorts of self inflicted or avoidable injuries caused by irresponsible people. Yet you say they should make those who choose to remain unjabbed or who resist restrictions should not receive treatment?4. I believe it is you who should be in prison my friend lolI did not suggest the nhs take such a stance. It’s called supposition. I genuinely feel for you suffering ME. Do you know anyone with ME and Long Covid though? This really should be a consideration for you. Anyone with ME who contracts covid is at moderate risk of developing complications. So whilst you think covid would be a “walk in the park “ compared to ME, I fear you are not considering the implications of ME WITH Covid.
Replace the word 'unfair' with 'unlawful', and we can take it from there. I’d be interested to hear your philosophy around the wearing of seatbelts in cars.
Quote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 11:44:19 amReplace the word 'unfair' with 'unlawful', and we can take it from there. I’d be interested to hear your philosophy around the wearing of seatbelts in cars.
Quote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 12:03:52 pmQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 11:44:19 amReplace the word 'unfair' with 'unlawful', and we can take it from there. I’d be interested to hear your philosophy around the wearing of seatbelts in cars.If the vaccine stopped transmission then you may have a point. It doesn't. If masks worked then you may have a point. They don't. If the number of deaths and adverse health events caused as a result of lockdowns and restrictions were less than those of Covid deaths then you may have a point. They aren't less - they are more.
Quote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 12:07:32 pmQuote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 12:03:52 pmQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 11:44:19 amReplace the word 'unfair' with 'unlawful', and we can take it from there. I’d be interested to hear your philosophy around the wearing of seatbelts in cars.If the vaccine stopped transmission then you may have a point. It doesn't. If masks worked then you may have a point. They don't. If the number of deaths and adverse health events caused as a result of lockdowns and restrictions were less than those of Covid deaths then you may have a point. They aren't less - they are more. That last paragraph is the single most stupid, ignorant thing you will hear on this subject. But it's going to go down as fact among am angry, I'll informed, easily misled section of the population.
The vaccine isn’t just about transmission though is it?Masks do work, to an extent. And I’m making no comparison against lockdowns either. If you drive a car or are a passenger do you wear a seatbelt? I asked a simple question about what your philosophy is around the wearing of a seatbelt. If yes, which I suspect will be the answer, then why?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on November 26, 2021, 12:09:44 pmQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 12:07:32 pmQuote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 12:03:52 pmQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 11:44:19 amReplace the word 'unfair' with 'unlawful', and we can take it from there. I’d be interested to hear your philosophy around the wearing of seatbelts in cars.If the vaccine stopped transmission then you may have a point. It doesn't. If masks worked then you may have a point. They don't. If the number of deaths and adverse health events caused as a result of lockdowns and restrictions were less than those of Covid deaths then you may have a point. They aren't less - they are more. That last paragraph is the single most stupid, ignorant thing you will hear on this subject. But it's going to go down as fact among am angry, I'll informed, easily misled section of the population.If it could be proved, apparently the Government won't release such info, that lockdown caused more deaths and problems than not locking down, would you still be in favour of them?
The figure we will never be able to calculate of course , is, with no lockdown measures at all, and hospitals up and down the country overflowing , with emergency morgues full to busting with body bags , just how many extra deaths there may have been, had no measures been taken at all. And I’m not just talking about covid deaths here. I’m talking about stroke and heart attack victims who there would have simply been no one there to care for. Persons caught in bad car crashes. Fires, bad falls. Industrial accidents , drowning. The list goes on and on. The governments main concern was the complete overwhelming of the nhs. People dying in corridors with no one to look after them. Insufficient ventilators etc. So to have a meaningful comparitative conversation on the matter we would have to have an understanding of this also.
Quote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 12:29:28 pmThe figure we will never be able to calculate of course , is, with no lockdown measures at all, and hospitals up and down the country overflowing , with emergency morgues full to busting with body bags , just how many extra deaths there may have been, had no measures been taken at all. And I’m not just talking about covid deaths here. I’m talking about stroke and heart attack victims who there would have simply been no one there to care for. Persons caught in bad car crashes. Fires, bad falls. Industrial accidents , drowning. The list goes on and on. The governments main concern was the complete overwhelming of the nhs. People dying in corridors with no one to look after them. Insufficient ventilators etc. So to have a meaningful comparitative conversation on the matter we would have to have an understanding of this also. We DO have an inkling of what it would have been like, and the deniers consistently refuse to engage with it. In Bergamo in Northern Italy, where they had the World's one and only unmitigated COVID outbreak in Spring 2020. 0.6% of the entire population dead within 6 weeks. (That scales up to about 400,000 for the UK.)Hospitals were overwhelmed. They WERR treating patients on the corridor floors. They stopped all other treatments for weeks. They survived because they had a lockdown which stopped other cities from being hit as hard. So they had the spare capacity in other hospitals to take up the slack. But Bergamo is a medium sized city. About the size of Sheffield.Picture the situation if they'd have allowed the virus to go on to rip through Milan or Turin which are much bigger places. It's terrifying to contemplate.
Quote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 10:49:28 amQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 10:36:53 amQuote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 10:27:20 amQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 09:40:14 amQuote from: River Don on November 26, 2021, 09:31:02 amI'm sorry CDH but the benefits of vacinnation are clear.In not being upto date with your vacinnes you are a danger to yourself and others. It's simply antisocial behaviour.Dear oh dear. 1. I am not a danger to myself because the virus doesn't kill 99.9% of people, let alone many people in their 40's. Therefore the risk to me is negligible even without a vaccine. 2. Even if i was at a greatly increased risk from Covid, it is still my choice whether i wish to dance with danger or not. Nobody elses. My body, my choice. 3. Vaccinated people still pass on Covid to others. The delta variant for example shows next to no difference in transmissability between the jabbed and unjabbed. Therefore, jabbed people are just as much a risk to others as the unjabbed. Not sure why people don't understand this simple concept. 4. Even if the vaccine 100% stopped Covid. It is still the choice of the individual whether to have a vaccine injected into their body. 5. I am very anti social yes. By choice. If i wasn't then i'd probably be in prison. Re point 1. Don’t get too obsessed with covid killing people. There are plenty of young healthy people who have had it and suffering long term affects. Long covid. Debilitating. Re point 2. I understand from a previous post that you have a disorder and as such you may be medicated. If, good forbid, you got poorly through covid, who would you turn to? Your choice you say. What if the nhs chose not to treat people who they classed as irresponsible. The very organisation that I have no doubt you will have received support from previously and May still do? Perhaps you would just advocate an every man for himself policy? In which case……….Point 5. I think prison may be a good option for you.1. I have M.E and therefore Long Covid would be a walk in the park. If you know any M.E sufferers then you'd understand. All Long Covid is is another form of post viral syndrome. There are plenty out there but yet only Long Covid matters apparently. Not bothered at all by Long Covid. 2. There are no medications for my 'conditions'. The support i have received from the NHS has been none existent. 3. The NHS treat people who play football and break their legs. They treat idiots who go climbing mountains or go hiking in the Peak District using a mobile phone as navigation. They treat alcoholics. Smokers. They treat people with all sorts of self inflicted or avoidable injuries caused by irresponsible people. Yet you say they should make those who choose to remain unjabbed or who resist restrictions should not receive treatment?4. I believe it is you who should be in prison my friend lolI did not suggest the nhs take such a stance. It’s called supposition. I genuinely feel for you suffering ME. Do you know anyone with ME and Long Covid though? This really should be a consideration for you. Anyone with ME who contracts covid is at moderate risk of developing complications. So whilst you think covid would be a “walk in the park “ compared to ME, I fear you are not considering the implications of ME WITH Covid.I have considered the implications of having M.E and Covid. I can't change the fact that there is a virus knocking about that we are all going to get can i? If i get Covid then i either survive or i don't. Pretty simple really.
The NHS has fallen over already. Deaths from other conditions have rocketed. Lockdown 1 i agreed with in a sense because nobody knew what we were dealing with. Come November last year, we knew much more, everyone was reassured that they could get food and medications and that society would not collapse but yet we had more lockdowns. Lockdown 1 is the only one in which i cannot blame the Government for. The others were avoidable, politically motivated and unnecessary.
Quote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 11:50:26 amQuote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 10:49:28 amQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 10:36:53 amQuote from: normal rules on November 26, 2021, 10:27:20 amQuote from: ColinDouglasHandshake on November 26, 2021, 09:40:14 amQuote from: River Don on November 26, 2021, 09:31:02 amI'm sorry CDH but the benefits of vacinnation are clear.In not being upto date with your vacinnes you are a danger to yourself and others. It's simply antisocial behaviour.Dear oh dear. 1. I am not a danger to myself because the virus doesn't kill 99.9% of people, let alone many people in their 40's. Therefore the risk to me is negligible even without a vaccine. 2. Even if i was at a greatly increased risk from Covid, it is still my choice whether i wish to dance with danger or not. Nobody elses. My body, my choice. 3. Vaccinated people still pass on Covid to others. The delta variant for example shows next to no difference in transmissability between the jabbed and unjabbed. Therefore, jabbed people are just as much a risk to others as the unjabbed. Not sure why people don't understand this simple concept. 4. Even if the vaccine 100% stopped Covid. It is still the choice of the individual whether to have a vaccine injected into their body. 5. I am very anti social yes. By choice. If i wasn't then i'd probably be in prison. Re point 1. Don’t get too obsessed with covid killing people. There are plenty of young healthy people who have had it and suffering long term affects. Long covid. Debilitating. Re point 2. I understand from a previous post that you have a disorder and as such you may be medicated. If, good forbid, you got poorly through covid, who would you turn to? Your choice you say. What if the nhs chose not to treat people who they classed as irresponsible. The very organisation that I have no doubt you will have received support from previously and May still do? Perhaps you would just advocate an every man for himself policy? In which case……….Point 5. I think prison may be a good option for you.1. I have M.E and therefore Long Covid would be a walk in the park. If you know any M.E sufferers then you'd understand. All Long Covid is is another form of post viral syndrome. There are plenty out there but yet only Long Covid matters apparently. Not bothered at all by Long Covid. 2. There are no medications for my 'conditions'. The support i have received from the NHS has been none existent. 3. The NHS treat people who play football and break their legs. They treat idiots who go climbing mountains or go hiking in the Peak District using a mobile phone as navigation. They treat alcoholics. Smokers. They treat people with all sorts of self inflicted or avoidable injuries caused by irresponsible people. Yet you say they should make those who choose to remain unjabbed or who resist restrictions should not receive treatment?4. I believe it is you who should be in prison my friend lolI did not suggest the nhs take such a stance. It’s called supposition. I genuinely feel for you suffering ME. Do you know anyone with ME and Long Covid though? This really should be a consideration for you. Anyone with ME who contracts covid is at moderate risk of developing complications. So whilst you think covid would be a “walk in the park “ compared to ME, I fear you are not considering the implications of ME WITH Covid.I have considered the implications of having M.E and Covid. I can't change the fact that there is a virus knocking about that we are all going to get can i? If i get Covid then i either survive or i don't. Pretty simple really. So if you caught it and didn't survive would that bother anyone else? Your family ?