Ukraine

[albie]

Stop the War have published on their site a position statement:
https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/stop-the-war-statement-on-ukraine-22-02-22/

It is clearly not true to say that they have taken a pro-Moscow view, much more to condemn the actions of all parties leading up to the present situation.

The Tories have accepted Russian cash to fund political activity in the recent past:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/quarter-boris-johnsons-cabinet-took-25123091

That being so, can the UK government take action which does not pay regard to those interests?

[drfchound]

Of course I'm not itching for war you utter bell end. But a war has been started by a fascist dictator. One that you admire and never criticise.

And history tells you what happens if you don't smack down fascist warmongers.

I'll comfort myself with that when we're sat huddling around a candle to keep warm because the price of gas as gone through the roof, all due to getting involved in other people's business which doesn't concern us. It probably won't really worry a champagne socialist like yourself will it?

Slightly off topic, but how can someone get away with calling another poster a bellend.
Surely that is against forum protocol.

[wilts rover]

Tuppenceworth from me

What I think Putin wants is to go down in history as the greatest Russian leader ever.

No Russian leader has ever been overthrown by an external force - but plenty have by internal action.

Putin wont be defeated on the battlefield but by making him unpopular in Russsia. Impoverish him and his friends by cutting him and his oligarchs out of western society, freeze their bank accounts and take their property off them, cut Russia off from sports and cultural events. When these people dont get any benefit from Putin being in power he will soon begone - its how the USSR fell.

[albie]

Putin seems to me to be both a cynical opportunist, and a geopolitical poker player.

This is not news.
The western allies have known this for many years, so the important question to ask is how we have enabled (perhaps by omission) the chance for him to roll out both tendencies to the max.

The diplomacy game is about making sure these circumstances do not arise, by thinking through the unintended consequences of political choices when they are made.

We in the west have systems aligned to an electoral cycle which does not favour long term planning.
Putin is secure in the position he holds over a much longer frame, so can play the long game in preparing his poker moves.

I just can't see an effective UK response lasting long term given the dependency of the UK financial sector on laundering dirty Russian money. Kompromat via dependency, whether on gas or financial inputs, loads the dice heavily in favour of non-effective token responses.

Not a good position to have created for our own security.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Stop the War have published on their site a position statement:
https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/stop-the-war-statement-on-ukraine-22-02-22/

It is clearly not true to say that they have taken a pro-Moscow view, much more to condemn the actions of all parties leading up to the present situation.

The Tories have accepted Russian cash to fund political activity in the recent past:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/quarter-boris-johnsons-cabinet-took-25123091

That being so, can the UK government take action which does not pay regard to those interests?

The Press release saying "Yes Russia shouldn't...but...NATO....NATO...USA....NATO...NATO....NATO....UK....NATO....and we call on Britain to change its policy."

[BillyStubbsTears]

Spot the difference between StW's "Naughty Russia, but ..."

And Arron Banks's "Naughty Russia but..."

https://mobile.twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/1496015423569022979

You go far enough to the left or right and you meet the other side with exactly the same policies.

[wilts rover]

Spot the difference between StW's "Naughty Russia, but ..."

And Arron Banks's "Naughty Russia but..."

https://mobile.twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/1496015423569022979

You go far enough to the left or right and you meet the other side with exactly the same policies.

Yup. Because Russia funded them both for years. Probably still do.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Careful Wilts.

Banks has taken a journalist to court for saying he lied about his links with Russia during the Leave camoaign. Even though he lied about his links to Russia during the Leave campaign.

[SydneyRover]

Another very dangerous fruitcake

''Former US President Donald Trump has called Vladimir Putin’s orders to send troops into Ukraine "genius".

Appearing on a right-wing radio show, Trump was asked about President Biden’s response to Putin’s sending military forces into Ukraine.

“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius,’” Trump said''

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's fair to say you can be both a nutter and genius.  Hitler, Saddam Hussein two prime examples.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Point is: would Stanley Baldwin have publicly declared Hitler a genius after he invaded the Sudetenland?

[wilts rover]

Careful Wilts.

Banks has taken a journalist to court for saying he lied about his links with Russia during the Leave camoaign. Even though he lied about his links to Russia during the Leave campaign.

I was referring to 'if you go far enough to the left and right' they will have the same policies/appeasement towards Russia rather than Mr Banks in particular. For instance Tommy Robinson did a speaking tour there not so long ago.

Also in this instance Corbyn's Labour differentiated itself from the far-left. John McDonnell called for sanctions on the oligarchs, implementation of unexplained weath orders, company investigations and a boycot of RT and personally delivered a letter of protest to Abramovich - among other measures - as part of the Ukraine Solidarity Campaign back in 2018.

https://ukrainesolidaritycampaign.org/2018/05/26/labour-mcdonnells-plan-to-take-on-the-russian-oligarchs/

[BillyStubbsTears]

McDonnell was always a far more hard headed politician than Corbyn. Might have been a different last 7 years if he'd been elected leader in 2015.

[SydneyRover]

Careful Wilts.

Banks has taken a journalist to court for saying he lied about his links with Russia during the Leave camoaign. Even though he lied about his links to Russia during the Leave campaign.

I was referring to 'if you go far enough to the left and right' they will have the same policies/appeasement towards Russia rather than Mr Banks in particular. For instance Tommy Robinson did a speaking tour there not so long ago.

Also in this instance Corbyn's Labour differentiated itself from the far-left. John McDonnell called for sanctions on the oligarchs, implementation of unexplained weath orders, company investigations and a boycot of RT and personally delivered a letter of protest to Abramovich - among other measures - as part of the Ukraine Solidarity Campaign back in 2018.

https://ukrainesolidaritycampaign.org/2018/05/26/labour-mcdonnells-plan-to-take-on-the-russian-oligarchs/

Lots of big headlines now from most of the newspapers but you have to ask yourself would the Tele and Express have backed those sanctions suggested in your link at any time before now Wilts?

[SydneyRover]

This is not a very nice thing to say about johnson is it?

''These pathetic sanctions won’t hurt Putin. He’ll be laughing all the way to his dacha''

''Johnson keeps on saying that we are going to have a public register of beneficial ownership of UK property, so that shell companies owning swaths of UK property can’t hide their oligarch owners. Yet the government has been promising this for years – and Companies House still doesn’t have the power or the resources to verify information registered with it, so it’s easy to lie with impunity.

Johnson says they are closing the gold-plated tier 1 visa scheme for wealthy “investors”, but he still won’t tell us how many oligarchs were granted rights here without a proper examination of where their wealth came from. It’s difficult not to worry that the Russians who have given money to the Tories can have done so only because they were given UK nationality by the Tories. In any other country we would call that corruption''

''We need much tougher, wider sanctions. We need reform of Companies House so we know the truth behind shell companies. We need a new Foreign Lobbying Act, reform to the Official Secrets Act and the immediate publication of the review into tier 1 visas''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/22/vladimir-putin-ukraine-sanctions-boris-johnson

johnson is a jellyfish

[tyke1962]

This is not a very nice thing to say about johnson is it?

''These pathetic sanctions won’t hurt Putin. He’ll be laughing all the way to his dacha''

''Johnson keeps on saying that we are going to have a public register of beneficial ownership of UK property, so that shell companies owning swaths of UK property can’t hide their oligarch owners. Yet the government has been promising this for years – and Companies House still doesn’t have the power or the resources to verify information registered with it, so it’s easy to lie with impunity.

Johnson says they are closing the gold-plated tier 1 visa scheme for wealthy “investors”, but he still won’t tell us how many oligarchs were granted rights here without a proper examination of where their wealth came from. It’s difficult not to worry that the Russians who have given money to the Tories can have done so only because they were given UK nationality by the Tories. In any other country we would call that corruption''

''We need much tougher, wider sanctions. We need reform of Companies House so we know the truth behind shell companies. We need a new Foreign Lobbying Act, reform to the Official Secrets Act and the immediate publication of the review into tier 1 visas''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/22/vladimir-putin-ukraine-sanctions-boris-johnson

johnson is a jellyfish

Would you like to tell us who started the " Golden Visa Scheme " Sydney ?

I'll give you a clue , it began in 2008 .


 

[SydneyRover]

This is not a very nice thing to say about johnson is it?

''These pathetic sanctions won’t hurt Putin. He’ll be laughing all the way to his dacha''

''Johnson keeps on saying that we are going to have a public register of beneficial ownership of UK property, so that shell companies owning swaths of UK property can’t hide their oligarch owners. Yet the government has been promising this for years – and Companies House still doesn’t have the power or the resources to verify information registered with it, so it’s easy to lie with impunity.

Johnson says they are closing the gold-plated tier 1 visa scheme for wealthy “investors”, but he still won’t tell us how many oligarchs were granted rights here without a proper examination of where their wealth came from. It’s difficult not to worry that the Russians who have given money to the Tories can have done so only because they were given UK nationality by the Tories. In any other country we would call that corruption''

''We need much tougher, wider sanctions. We need reform of Companies House so we know the truth behind shell companies. We need a new Foreign Lobbying Act, reform to the Official Secrets Act and the immediate publication of the review into tier 1 visas''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/22/vladimir-putin-ukraine-sanctions-boris-johnson

johnson is a jellyfish

Would you like to tell us who started the " Golden Visa Scheme " Sydney ?

I'll give you a clue , it began in 2008 .


 

Maybe that's why you don't make a lot of sense tyke, banging your head too much, tell me who was responsible for implementing it since they came to power?

[drfchound]

Another very dangerous fruitcake

''Former US President Donald Trump has called Vladimir Putin’s orders to send troops into Ukraine "genius".

Appearing on a right-wing radio show, Trump was asked about President Biden’s response to Putin’s sending military forces into Ukraine.

“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius,’” Trump said''

Which right wing radio station was that SR, can you tell us.

[DRFC_DonnyRed50]

Another very dangerous fruitcake

''Former US President Donald Trump has called Vladimir Putin’s orders to send troops into Ukraine "genius".

Appearing on a right-wing radio show, Trump was asked about President Biden’s response to Putin’s sending military forces into Ukraine.

“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius,’” Trump said''

Which right wing radio station was that SR, can you tell us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebHVsWQThMU

The bloke is insane.

[drfchound]

Another very dangerous fruitcake

''Former US President Donald Trump has called Vladimir Putin’s orders to send troops into Ukraine "genius".

Appearing on a right-wing radio show, Trump was asked about President Biden’s response to Putin’s sending military forces into Ukraine.

“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius,’” Trump said''

Which right wing radio station was that SR, can you tell us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebHVsWQThMU

The bloke is insane.

I totally agree.

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1496404306530123776

This is our Foreign Secretary.

Saying we will target people close to Putin.

Then being shown a picture of the wife of a former Putin minister, socialising with Tory ministers after giving the Tory party £1.8m.

And listen to what our Foreign Secretary says. "I think it's important that we don't conflate people with Russian heritage with people close to the Putin regime."

That's our Foreign Secretary. Demonstrating on TV, her ignorance of how people in Russia make fortunes. You simply do not get to have a spare £1.8m down the back of your Russian sofa without being in Putin's circle.

This is a massive crisis in the making for the Tories. If anyone cares. They are massively in hock to Putin's kleptocrats.

[ravenrover]

By but didn't the PM move sharpish when Bryant stood up to challenge him about Abramovich, out the back door like a rat up a drainpipe.
What is the point of the Speaker if he cannot challenge MPs of any party about the "facts" they come out with and not having to correct the said "fact"

[BillyStubbsTears]

Apparently Johnson has corrected the record today about Abramovic. Which, to my knowledge is the first time he's ever corrected an untruth he's told in the House.

I wonder who bent his ear on that one?

[foxbat]

Fun fact :

Matthew Elliott, Chief Executive of the Vote Leave campaign, was also founding member of the Conservative Friends of Russia group

 https://t.co/Qkh8xbuoiJ

[Axholme Lion]

Of course I'm not itching for war you utter bell end. But a war has been started by a fascist dictator. One that you admire and never criticise.

And history tells you what happens if you don't smack down fascist warmongers.

I'll comfort myself with that when we're sat huddling around a candle to keep warm because the price of gas as gone through the roof, all due to getting involved in other people's business which doesn't concern us. It probably won't really worry a champagne socialist like yourself will it?

Slightly off topic, but how can someone get away with calling another poster a bellend.
Surely that is against forum protocol.

Because it's 'his' forum maybe?
He can say what he wants, i don't care.

[Filo]

Of course I'm not itching for war you utter bell end. But a war has been started by a fascist dictator. One that you admire and never criticise.

And history tells you what happens if you don't smack down fascist warmongers.

I'll comfort myself with that when we're sat huddling around a candle to keep warm because the price of gas as gone through the roof, all due to getting involved in other people's business which doesn't concern us. It probably won't really worry a champagne socialist like yourself will it?

Slightly off topic, but how can someone get away with calling another poster a bellend.
Surely that is against forum protocol.

And so is trolling, but folk get away with it

[albie]

The whole phased roll out of sanctions is to give wriggle room for the transfer of assets to safe havens from accounts and locations likely to be impacted.

The playbook is to talk tough, but look to retain the long term support of those who may be inconvenienced in the short term.

This harbouring of assets has been going on for a while in preparation for the phased sanctions regime. This would not have been allowed to happen if the western allies had wanted to prevent it.

[drfchound]

Of course I'm not itching for war you utter bell end. But a war has been started by a fascist dictator. One that you admire and never criticise.

And history tells you what happens if you don't smack down fascist warmongers.

I'll comfort myself with that when we're sat huddling around a candle to keep warm because the price of gas as gone through the roof, all due to getting involved in other people's business which doesn't concern us. It probably won't really worry a champagne socialist like yourself will it?

Slightly off topic, but how can someone get away with calling another poster a bellend.
Surely that is against forum protocol.

And so is trolling, but folk get away with it

Yes, you do don’t you.

[belton rover]

Of course I'm not itching for war you utter bell end. But a war has been started by a fascist dictator. One that you admire and never criticise.

And history tells you what happens if you don't smack down fascist warmongers.

I'll comfort myself with that when we're sat huddling around a candle to keep warm because the price of gas as gone through the roof, all due to getting involved in other people's business which doesn't concern us. It probably won't really worry a champagne socialist like yourself will it?

Slightly off topic, but how can someone get away with calling another poster a bellend.
Surely that is against forum protocol.

And so is trolling, but folk get away with it

Accusations on here of trolling are subjective and largely false.

Calling someone an ‘utter bell end’ is nothing short of pathetic. The great one blocks people for less.

Hats off to Axholme for not being dragged down to such levels of immaturity and ignorance, despite the provocation.

[tyke1962]

This is not a very nice thing to say about johnson is it?

''These pathetic sanctions won’t hurt Putin. He’ll be laughing all the way to his dacha''

''Johnson keeps on saying that we are going to have a public register of beneficial ownership of UK property, so that shell companies owning swaths of UK property can’t hide their oligarch owners. Yet the government has been promising this for years – and Companies House still doesn’t have the power or the resources to verify information registered with it, so it’s easy to lie with impunity.

Johnson says they are closing the gold-plated tier 1 visa scheme for wealthy “investors”, but he still won’t tell us how many oligarchs were granted rights here without a proper examination of where their wealth came from. It’s difficult not to worry that the Russians who have given money to the Tories can have done so only because they were given UK nationality by the Tories. In any other country we would call that corruption''

''We need much tougher, wider sanctions. We need reform of Companies House so we know the truth behind shell companies. We need a new Foreign Lobbying Act, reform to the Official Secrets Act and the immediate publication of the review into tier 1 visas''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/22/vladimir-putin-ukraine-sanctions-boris-johnson

johnson is a jellyfish

Would you like to tell us who started the " Golden Visa Scheme " Sydney ?

I'll give you a clue , it began in 2008 .


 

Maybe that's why you don't make a lot of sense tyke, banging your head too much, tell me who was responsible for implementing it since they came to power?

Don't be like that Sydney because your party will soon be chasing any donations that they are lucky enough to be offered .

Unite Union considering  pulling funding given Keith's lack of support for the Coventry bin drivers dispute .