Ukraine

[normal rules]

Well, the shit has hit the fan now. The news all over are reporting Invasion this morning with deaths at Ukrainian Miltary bases being mentioned. Putin urging Ukrainian to lay down their arms.
That’s not going to happen. Worrying times ahead. This is not what the world needs right now.

This all started long ago with the breakup of the old USSR. In many ways it’s not dissimilar to the breakup of the Bosnia Herzegovina situation.
That’s doesn’t make it right of course.

[KeithMyath]

Well the Russians have invaded, time to boot out all the dodgy Russians in this Country and confiscate all their UK assets, and for NATO to make it clear that put one step on NATO soil and it’s full scale military confrontation, Belarus must also be sanctioned, the free world can not allow this to happen

The West caused the whole situation over the past thirty years by breaking promises about eastern expansion of Nato.

Wow, it's amazing what views can be held in 2022.

[selby]

The talk of joining NATO and the EU has been the problem whether right or wrong, I firmly believe that people should have the right of self determination, but the EU and NATO have misread the situation and have not stood up when they had the better of the situation.
  I would say they have had too much trust in basically a mad man, but they are to blame for taking their eye off the ball and over the last ten years pushing and pontificating strutting about without taking action.
  The Germans and every other nation have got into bed with Putin to an extent when their existence of being in the modern world for energy has been turned over to Russia. The doves and save the earth nuts have to be thanked for the destruction of alternative energy recourses that would have served for years, mainly to take power from unions and into politicians hands, and from nationalised companies into greedy individual hands.
  Well this is what you get for being nice, giving power to the doves and save the Earth wallas, reducing expenditure on defence, not paying your way to Nato ( stand up the big hitters in the EU) and trying to be what you are not.
  Bang goes that theory about the EU stopping wars in Europe then.

[Axholme Lion]

Well the Russians have invaded, time to boot out all the dodgy Russians in this Country and confiscate all their UK assets, and for NATO to make it clear that put one step on NATO soil and it’s full scale military confrontation, Belarus must also be sanctioned, the free world can not allow this to happen

The West caused the whole situation over the past thirty years by breaking promises about eastern expansion of Nato.

The bombing was NATO's second major combat operation, following the 1995 bombing campaign in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It was the first time that NATO had used military force without the expressed endorsement of the UN Security Council, which triggered debates over the legitimacy of the intervention.

Every sovereign Country as the right to determine it’s own future, the biggest mistake Ukraine made was trusting the Russians word and giving their Nukes to them, if Ukraine had Nukes the madman that is Putin would not have been so bold, how you can defend unprovoked aggression is beyond me

Like bombing Sarajevo, Libya, Iraq. Oh yes Nato are really trustworthy. People in glass houses...

United Nations, NATO has only ever attacked the Taliban regime in Afgan in the War on Terror

[KeithMyath]

Well, the shit has hit the fan now. The news all over are reporting Invasion this morning with deaths at Ukrainian Miltary bases being mentioned. Putin urging Ukrainian to lay down their arms.
That’s not going to happen. Worrying times ahead. This is not what the world needs right now.

This all started long ago with the breakup of the old USSR. In many ways it’s not dissimilar to the breakup of the Bosnia Herzegovina situation.
That’s doesn’t make it right of course.

It's more bizarre as they are so closely linked. Ukrainians living in Russia, Russians living freely in Ukraine. Families torn apart across a sovereign border. I can only believe that Putin is hoping they lay their weapons down, but I fear the return to Putin's idealistic form of old Russia will not be tolerated and so many innocent people will die on the whim of a mad man.

[Axholme Lion]

The talk of joining NATO and the EU has been the problem whether right or wrong, I firmly believe that people should have the right of self determination, but the EU and NATO have misread the situation and have not stood up when they had the better of the situation.
  I would say they have had too much trust in basically a mad man, but they are to blame for taking their eye off the ball and over the last ten years pushing and pontificating strutting about without taking action.
  The Germans and every other nation have got into bed with Putin to an extent when their existence of being in the modern world for energy has been turned over to Russia. The doves and save the earth nuts have to be thanked for the destruction of alternative energy recourses that would have served for years, mainly to take power from unions and into politicians hands, and from nationalised companies into greedy individual hands.
  Well this is what you get for being nice, giving power to the doves and save the Earth wallas, reducing expenditure on defence, not paying your way to Nato ( stand up the big hitters in the EU) and trying to be what you are not.
  Bang goes that theory about the EU stopping wars in Europe then.

The EU engineered the overthrow of the legitimate government in Ukraine. I hope they're happy when their next gas bill comes. Fill your cars up, £2 a litre soon, thanks Boris and Sleepy Joe. They could have solved the whole issue peacefully but they backed Ruusia into a corner and gave them no option.

[SydneyRover]

The talk of joining NATO and the EU has been the problem whether right or wrong, I firmly believe that people should have the right of self determination, but the EU and NATO have misread the situation and have not stood up when they had the better of the situation.
  I would say they have had too much trust in basically a mad man, but they are to blame for taking their eye off the ball and over the last ten years pushing and pontificating strutting about without taking action.
  The Germans and every other nation have got into bed with Putin to an extent when their existence of being in the modern world for energy has been turned over to Russia. The doves and save the earth nuts have to be thanked for the destruction of alternative energy recourses that would have served for years, mainly to take power from unions and into politicians hands, and from nationalised companies into greedy individual hands.
  Well this is what you get for being nice, giving power to the doves and save the Earth wallas, reducing expenditure on defence, not paying your way to Nato ( stand up the big hitters in the EU) and trying to be what you are not.
  Bang goes that theory about the EU stopping wars in Europe then.

Apologist number 2 at work here, believing and accepting what the madman putin says as gospel

[SydneyRover]

Hands up those blaming Nato have been regular listeners to RT and have quoted the output on this forum?

[Axholme Lion]

Hands up those blaming Nato have been regular listeners to RT and have quoted the output on this forum?

I'd be more concerned about the diet of woke, pc, anti brexit poison spewed out by the BBC over the past few years. The BBC is a sick, decadent organisation with no values, pretty much like most Western governments nowadays.

[River Don]

It was always coming.

This has been Putin's objective for a longtime I think.

[River Don]

Hands up those blaming Nato have been regular listeners to RT and have quoted the output on this forum?

I'd be more concerned about the diet of woke, pc, anti brexit poison spewed out by the BBC over the past few years. The BBC is a sick, decadent organisation with no values, pretty much like most Western governments nowadays.

The invasion of a sovereign country. War in Europe.

And you are wittering on about the BBC?

[Filo]

It was always coming.

This has been Putin's objective for a longtime I think.

This

The disintegration of the former USSR is intolerable to a former KGB agent, it has been his sole objective since then

[DRFC_DonnyRed50]

Hands up those blaming Nato have been regular listeners to RT and have quoted the output on this forum?

I'd be more concerned about the diet of woke, pc, anti brexit poison spewed out by the BBC over the past few years. The BBC is a sick, decadent organisation with no values, pretty much like most Western governments nowadays.

What values do you hold dear if I might ask? Surely self determination and democracy?

[Filo]

Well the Russians have invaded, time to boot out all the dodgy Russians in this Country and confiscate all their UK assets, and for NATO to make it clear that put one step on NATO soil and it’s full scale military confrontation, Belarus must also be sanctioned, the free world can not allow this to happen

The West caused the whole situation over the past thirty years by breaking promises about eastern expansion of Nato.

The bombing was NATO's second major combat operation, following the 1995 bombing campaign in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It was the first time that NATO had used military force without the expressed endorsement of the UN Security Council, which triggered debates over the legitimacy of the intervention.

Every sovereign Country as the right to determine it’s own future, the biggest mistake Ukraine made was trusting the Russians word and giving their Nukes to them, if Ukraine had Nukes the madman that is Putin would not have been so bold, how you can defend unprovoked aggression is beyond me

Like bombing Sarajevo, Libya, Iraq. Oh yes Nato are really trustworthy. People in glass houses...

United Nations, NATO has only ever attacked the Taliban regime in Afgan in the War on Terror

You mention trustworthy, only days ago Russia said they had no intention of invading Ukraine, Putin and Russia can not be trusted

[normal rules]

In the coming weeks and months , it will be the country formerly known as Ukraine.
It will, again, become part of Russia. Which many within Ukraine want.
Just like Bosnia, the fight between Serbo Croats and Bosnians, will be between pro Russian Ukrainians allied with Russians and those that are against them.
Putin will not entertain any dialogue from the UN and certainly not NATO. He has made that clear.
If NATO get involved in this, god forbid, then you can kiss your ass goodbye.
The outcome will be catastrophic.
Third World War, and then some.

My suggestion, for what it’s worth, is let him get on with it. Impose the very strictest sanctions on the whole of Russia.alienate the whole country. Travel bans, no fly zones, economic penalties,  wealthy individuals (including abramovic) the whole nine yards.
Then Bolster forces in Eastern Europe again. Because if he gets away with it in Ukraine, which he will, then next with be Latvia, lithuania and Estonia.

[River Don]

That's broadly the approach already NR.

And continue to arm the Ukraine resistance

[normal rules]

British troops no doubt to be deployed in Poland in future. I spent 5 very happy years living in Germany in the 90’s as part of the BAOR. Both my sons were born there in fact.  Sad to see that British troops are very very few now over there. It was a mistake drawing back from there .
I can see Poland becoming the next big overseas deployment area . For decades perhaps. That’s not all bad. Good beer in Poland. Hot summers. But bloody cold winters .

[River Don]

The price of oil has just broken $100 a barrel.

Things might start getting very expensive.

[Axholme Lion]

Well the Russians have invaded, time to boot out all the dodgy Russians in this Country and confiscate all their UK assets, and for NATO to make it clear that put one step on NATO soil and it’s full scale military confrontation, Belarus must also be sanctioned, the free world can not allow this to happen

The West caused the whole situation over the past thirty years by breaking promises about eastern expansion of Nato.

The bombing was NATO's second major combat operation, following the 1995 bombing campaign in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It was the first time that NATO had used military force without the expressed endorsement of the UN Security Council, which triggered debates over the legitimacy of the intervention.

Every sovereign Country as the right to determine it’s own future, the biggest mistake Ukraine made was trusting the Russians word and giving their Nukes to them, if Ukraine had Nukes the madman that is Putin would not have been so bold, how you can defend unprovoked aggression is beyond me

Like bombing Sarajevo, Libya, Iraq. Oh yes Nato are really trustworthy. People in glass houses...

United Nations, NATO has only ever attacked the Taliban regime in Afgan in the War on Terror

You mention trustworthy, only days ago Russia said they had no intention of invading Ukraine, Putin and Russia can not be trusted

Donbass and Luhansk is not Ukraine.

[Axholme Lion]

Hands up those blaming Nato have been regular listeners to RT and have quoted the output on this forum?

I'd be more concerned about the diet of woke, pc, anti brexit poison spewed out by the BBC over the past few years. The BBC is a sick, decadent organisation with no values, pretty much like most Western governments nowadays.

The invasion of a sovereign country. War in Europe.

And you are wittering on about the BBC?

Take it up with Sydney he started it.

[normal rules]

Well the Russians have invaded, time to boot out all the dodgy Russians in this Country and confiscate all their UK assets, and for NATO to make it clear that put one step on NATO soil and it’s full scale military confrontation, Belarus must also be sanctioned, the free world can not allow this to happen

The West caused the whole situation over the past thirty years by breaking promises about eastern expansion of Nato.

The bombing was NATO's second major combat operation, following the 1995 bombing campaign in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It was the first time that NATO had used military force without the expressed endorsement of the UN Security Council, which triggered debates over the legitimacy of the intervention.

Every sovereign Country as the right to determine it’s own future, the biggest mistake Ukraine made was trusting the Russians word and giving their Nukes to them, if Ukraine had Nukes the madman that is Putin would not have been so bold, how you can defend unprovoked aggression is beyond me

Like bombing Sarajevo, Libya, Iraq. Oh yes Nato are really trustworthy. People in glass houses...

United Nations, NATO has only ever attacked the Taliban regime in Afgan in the War on Terror

You mention trustworthy, only days ago Russia said they had no intention of invading Ukraine, Putin and Russia can not be trusted

Donbass and Luhansk is not Ukraine.

AL , with the greatest respect, the movement of Russian troops this morning is not just in these areas. There are troop movements into Ukraine from Belarus in the north, which is hundreds of kilometres from Luhansk and Donbas. And very close to Kyiv.

[normal rules]

I’d like to see the uk govt  and Eu govts impose a complete flight ban on all airlines in and out of russia. With immediate effect.
And a complete no fly zone of any russian airlines over Europe / uk airspace.

[Metalmicky]

Because if he gets away with it in Ukraine, which he will, then next with be Latvia, lithuania and Estonia.

IMO, he wouldn't be so mad as to go into a NATO country.  The fact that Ukraine isn't part of the NATO group has made this an easy win for him.

NATO is already bolstering forces in NATO states bordering Russia and Belarus and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see British forces deployed permanently in many of these.  I hope that Belarus is also sanctioned as part of the process - they have been complicit in these actions also and their despot leader Lukashenko needs to feel a boot in the jacksie also...

[SydneyRover]

Hands up those blaming Nato have been regular listeners to RT and have quoted the output on this forum?

I'd be more concerned about the diet of woke, pc, anti brexit poison spewed out by the BBC over the past few years. The BBC is a sick, decadent organisation with no values, pretty much like most Western governments nowadays.

The invasion of a sovereign country. War in Europe.

And you are wittering on about the BBC?

Take it up with Sydney he started it.

The bbc is run and owned by a democratic nation whereas RT is the propaganda arm of a dictator that has his opponents murdered.

[ravenrover]

We gave Putin the green light when NATO said they would not put troops into Ukraine to help defend against any invasion

[River Don]

No I don't think he would attack NATO unless he's gone completely Tonto.

I think he sees Ukraine as belonging to Russia and needs to move before it does join NATO. That was his fear.

[normal rules]

I see the Ukrainian govt has authorised that anyone can now take up arms.
I can see there being some freedom fighter tourism into Ukraine.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well the Russians have invaded, time to boot out all the dodgy Russians in this Country and confiscate all their UK assets, and for NATO to make it clear that put one step on NATO soil and it’s full scale military confrontation, Belarus must also be sanctioned, the free world can not allow this to happen

The West caused the whole situation over the past thirty years by breaking promises about eastern expansion of Nato.

The bombing was NATO's second major combat operation, following the 1995 bombing campaign in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It was the first time that NATO had used military force without the expressed endorsement of the UN Security Council, which triggered debates over the legitimacy of the intervention.

Every sovereign Country as the right to determine it’s own future, the biggest mistake Ukraine made was trusting the Russians word and giving their Nukes to them, if Ukraine had Nukes the madman that is Putin would not have been so bold, how you can defend unprovoked aggression is beyond me

Like bombing Sarajevo, Libya, Iraq. Oh yes Nato are really trustworthy. People in glass houses...

United Nations, NATO has only ever attacked the Taliban regime in Afgan in the War on Terror

You mention trustworthy, only days ago Russia said they had no intention of invading Ukraine, Putin and Russia can not be trusted

Donbass and Luhansk is not Ukraine.

Like having a Putin megaphone in here.

I've said before, this person would have supported Hitler. He's showing us why here. Absolutely disgraceful.

[SydneyRover]

the rouble is tanking and will have to be propped up

[Ldr]

The irony BST that you campaigned door to door to have the worlds biggest Russian apologist elected PM