Ukraine

[BillyStubbsTears]

Another one of Putin's paid Lord Haw-Haws traipsing out to excuse him.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1496832757518974978

Lower than vermin.

[wilts rover]

How surprising that so many opponents of an imagined empire in Brussels turn out to support a real one in Moscow.

https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/1496845106342735873

[Copps is Magic]

Credit to the anti-war protestors in Moscow. Just watched a video of hundreds of them being grabbed and hoarded into police vans on mass. That's bravery.

Big moment for China here. They are walking on a tightrope but if they decide to support Putin economically, we're returning to a global dark age.

Very worryingly the discourse on Chinese media and social media appears to be that this invasion was provoked by the West.

[normal rules]

I’ve just watched the pm address the house followed by the leader of the opposition.

Say what you like about left right politics, but I’ve just witnessed two very moving speeches from Two people who are usually at each other’s throats.

[normal rules]

Ffs.just hearing of huge ques at local Tesco so that people can fill up. What is it with people?

[Filo]

I’ve just watched the pm address the house followed by the leader of the opposition.

Say what you like about left right politics, but I’ve just witnessed two very moving speeches from Two people who are usually at each other’s throats.

In times like this, there is no place for political point scoring, unity is the best action, and I’m sure the vast majority support the PM and leader of the opposition at this time

[selby]

  Billy, I was commenting on the football posters wanting to use the World cup as a stick to beat Russia with, and pointing out that the  Asia, Concaf, South American,and African football federations already think that too many European countries qualify for the finals at the expense of countries in their federations.
  And that any organised lack of attendance could cost the European countries places in subsequent World Cups as those federations would take advantage of the situation in my opinion.
  They are already organised enough to make sure England , and the UK have little chance of hosting the competition again, and would like nothing more to make it more difficult for European and England especially to qualify'
  Choose how you dress yourself up your British and they dislike you,  just as much as they do me buddy, and if they got to know how boring and condescending you can be, they would probably dislike you even more.

[BillyStubbsTears]

  Billy, I was commenting on the football posters wanting to use the World cup as a stick to beat Russia with, and pointing out that the  Asia, Concaf, South American,and African football federations already think that too many European countries qualify for the finals at the expense of countries in their federations.
  And that any organised lack of attendance could cost the European countries places in subsequent World Cups as those federations would take advantage of the situation in my opinion.
  They are already organised enough to make sure England , and the UK have little chance of hosting the competition again, and would like nothing more to make it more difficult for European and England especially to qualify'
  Choose how you dress yourself up your British and they dislike you,  just as much as they do me buddy, and if they got to know how boring and condescending you can be, they would probably dislike you even more.

Little Englander. I've got news for you. The rest of the world doesn't hate England. We aren't important enough. The FIFA delegates didn't give the WC to Russia over England because they hate England. They did it because they got massive bribes from Russia, whereas we just gave them a mug with a picture of Tower Bridge on it.

None of that would work in a WC where the European teams, barring Russia, Serbia, Hungary and Belarus refused to take part. Because no-one would bother watching it. Just like no-one watches the Copa America or the African Cup of Nations.

[wilts rover]

I’ve just watched the pm address the house followed by the leader of the opposition.

Say what you like about left right politics, but I’ve just witnessed two very moving speeches from Two people who are usually at each other’s throats.

Yes. And add the Lib Dems and Scots Nats to that.

You have the country behind you Johnson (other than extremist/appeaser nutters) impose sanctions on any source of Russian funding in the UK now. Make it hurt him.

[BillyStubbsTears]

At the moment, all that coded talk by the West about SWIFT sanctions is sounding like piss and wind. Locking Russia out of Swift would be a real smash in the face, but the west has so far backed down from doing it. If a full scale tank invasion isn't enough to trigger that, it makes you wonder what is.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The irony BST that you campaigned door to door to have the worlds biggest Russian apologist elected PM

I did. And I said at the time that t was the worst choice of PM there had ever been in an election. But on balance, I preferred the one who had a schoolboy outlook on Russia, but who was surrounded by MPs who were much more hard-headed and would control him, rather than one who had deliberately sat on a report into how Russia was attacking or democracy, who had given a peerage to the son of an FSB colonel, and whose party was up to its neck in Putin kleptocrat finance.


Politics is  about getting a least worst outcome. One of those two was going to be in No10 after that election. Which one would you have preferred?


And which of the two alternatives would you prefer now?

Still Boris.... As much as I dislike Boris he is still a better choice than Corbyn ever would be. Just look at Corbyn and Abbott's comments last week to see how he'd have been a disaster.

I'll accept I may be wrong but have you ever voted labour pud?

Yes, my local labour councillors largely do a good job.

So you would not have supported the Brown government that went on to save the UK economy and knowing that presumably voted them out for a couple of wide boys that went on to do their best to trash the economy and then deliver brexit and jellyback johnson that has been protecting putiin's thugs in London. In a nutshell.

As a student at that time who'd just been saddled with 30k+ of student debt due to the policies brought in by said labour government, this after my labour mp said it was tough luck that I lost out on place at the local school because those from outside the area had more right to it than me.  Nope I wasn't much of a fan of the labour party at that point.

As to my point on Corbyn and McDonnell.  It appears Starmer agrees as he has asked mcdonnell to withdraw his criticism of nato tonight.....  That would have been government policy under Corbyn, just think about that.

[tyke1962]

So let me get this right 70% of parliament agreed to invade Iraq because they thought they might have WMD but are at the moment debating imposing further sanctions on a country who most defiantly have WUM and have just this morning invaded its near neighbour just like Iraq invaded Kuwait .

Putin can smell the weakness thousands of miles away in Moscow and he's laughing .

Yes I know this game is  high stakes but unless the West crush this tyrant now then he's going to march in to a number of neighbouring countries and plant his flag .

Do politicians not learn anything from history the same as they put their heads in the sand when Hitler annexed Austria and walked in to the former Czechoslovakia .

This tyrant needs burying now .

[Stocksbridge Owl]

This is an unadulterated catastrophe. Mainly for the poor souls in Ukraine but for the rest of Europe too. It’s also going to put Russia on the brink. Their economy is already hanging by a thread but the hit they’re going to get from sanctions is going to make life very, very unpleasant for a lot of the population. This truly is the action of a mad man. The only hope for Ukraine now is that the Russian people demand an end to the conflict and pressure Putin to withdraw. How anyone can possibly blame anyone but Putin for this is incredulous.

I don’t believe that this is anything to do with NATO either but more to do with Russian Imperialism. Putin has always wanted to ‘reclaim’ a Soviet identity. Where will this end? If he sets foot into a NATO country there will be all out war. No doubt. And it’ll be a war that Russia cannot win. A combined NATO force has enormous resources in manpower and technology which would utterly destroy Russian forces in a ‘conventional’ war. Of course, the unimaginable scenario is of a Nuclear attack. Again, NATO is far more superior in regards to hardware, technology and missile defence but, make no bones about it, it only takes one to get through…

[wilts rover]

The irony BST that you campaigned door to door to have the worlds biggest Russian apologist elected PM

I did. And I said at the time that t was the worst choice of PM there had ever been in an election. But on balance, I preferred the one who had a schoolboy outlook on Russia, but who was surrounded by MPs who were much more hard-headed and would control him, rather than one who had deliberately sat on a report into how Russia was attacking or democracy, who had given a peerage to the son of an FSB colonel, and whose party was up to its neck in Putin kleptocrat finance.


Politics is  about getting a least worst outcome. One of those two was going to be in No10 after that election. Which one would you have preferred?


And which of the two alternatives would you prefer now?

Still Boris.... As much as I dislike Boris he is still a better choice than Corbyn ever would be. Just look at Corbyn and Abbott's comments last week to see how he'd have been a disaster.

I'll accept I may be wrong but have you ever voted labour pud?

Yes, my local labour councillors largely do a good job.

So you would not have supported the Brown government that went on to save the UK economy and knowing that presumably voted them out for a couple of wide boys that went on to do their best to trash the economy and then deliver brexit and jellyback johnson that has been protecting putiin's thugs in London. In a nutshell.

As a student at that time who'd just been saddled with 30k+ of student debt due to the policies brought in by said labour government, this after my labour mp said it was tough luck that I lost out on place at the local school because those from outside the area had more right to it than me.  Nope I wasn't much of a fan of the labour party at that point.

As to my point on Corbyn and McDonnell.  It appears Starmer agrees as he has asked mcdonnell to withdraw his criticism of nato tonight.....  That would have been government policy under Corbyn, just think about that.

Yes I posted twice about the measures a Corbyn Labour government would have taken against Russia and its ability to fund its aggression with money from London. That a Johnson led government refused to do.

McDonnell will be speaking at a Ukraine Solidarity demo outside the Russian Embassy on Saturday if you want to go barrack him. And ask him if he knows how many Tories have given their Russian money back:

https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1496865846974722055

[wilts rover]

All Labour MP's have now withrawn their names from the Stop the War letter as requested by Starmer

https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1496915658856341504

[River Don]

Biden is forceful and reassuring tonight.

[tyke1962]

It's Putin who is the one who is scared and why the West can't see this is beyond me .

He's scared that a Ukraine on his doorstep looks West for its future prosperity under democratic rule .

Frightened to death the Russian people will want the same instead of having to live under his rule whilst he and his cronies continue to steal the billions from the Russian people .

Even I can smell his fear that the Russian people wake up and rise up against him , he'd be swinging from a rope pretty quickly and he knows it .

Time the West flipped this the other way instead of the lame sanctions route that he knew were coming and he's planned for .

[River Don]

That was a statesmanlike speech by Biden.

That's what we needed to hear.

[tyke1962]

At the moment, all that coded talk by the West about SWIFT sanctions is sounding like piss and wind. Locking Russia out of Swift would be a real smash in the face, but the west has so far backed down from doing it. If a full scale tank invasion isn't enough to trigger that, it makes you wonder what is.

The EU looking likely to vote against removing SWIFT .

Make of that what you will Billy .

[DRFCSouth]

Back on topic I can see that BA are still operating flights to Moscow. Tomorrow for instance from Heathrow.
Surely airlines around the world should look to sanction Russia by limiting the ability of its people to get around.
Why target just the wealthy? Whilst they hold a lot of power and influence, there would be no better way to alienate his own people from him by banning international travel in and out of Russia.

Why should airlines have to take the lead when the government could quite easily do it for them but don’t.

Airlines are already taking steps by cancelling flights to Ukraine, but that’s to protect planes and people. But they are still happy to fly to the aggressor nation. It just seems a bit daft.

The Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down over Ukraine. Perhaps that's a good enough reason.

The airlines will wait for direction as ultimately people need ferrying around.

And their freedom to overfly countries is protected.

Are you suggesting that Ukraine shot down the plane?

No, read again.

I was stating where that aircraft had been shot down.

[normal rules]

At the moment, all that coded talk by the West about SWIFT sanctions is sounding like piss and wind. Locking Russia out of Swift would be a real smash in the face, but the west has so far backed down from doing it. If a full scale tank invasion isn't enough to trigger that, it makes you wonder what is.

The EU looking likely to vote against removing SWIFT .

Make of that what you will Billy .

Swift works both ways, it stops Russia gathering payments. But it also stops creditors outside Russia getting paid.
It would be a very big double edged sword.

[Metalmicky]

Cutting Russia off from Swift banking not an option right now - Biden

[tyke1962]

At the moment, all that coded talk by the West about SWIFT sanctions is sounding like piss and wind. Locking Russia out of Swift would be a real smash in the face, but the west has so far backed down from doing it. If a full scale tank invasion isn't enough to trigger that, it makes you wonder what is.

The EU looking likely to vote against removing SWIFT .

Make of that what you will Billy .

Swift works both ways, it stops Russia gathering payments. But it also stops creditors outside Russia getting paid.
It would be a very big double edged sword.

Well that's fair enough but warfare tends to do that and it's a question of what you are prepared to suffer yourself in order to strike a blow on the aggressor .

Looks like we are only prepared to suffer minimally whilst a democratic country is invaded right in front of our noses .

 Chamberlain would be proud .

[normal rules]

At the moment, all that coded talk by the West about SWIFT sanctions is sounding like piss and wind. Locking Russia out of Swift would be a real smash in the face, but the west has so far backed down from doing it. If a full scale tank invasion isn't enough to trigger that, it makes you wonder what is.

The EU looking likely to vote against removing SWIFT .

Make of that what you will Billy .

Swift works both ways, it stops Russia gathering payments. But it also stops creditors outside Russia getting paid.
It would be a very big double edged sword.

Well that's fair enough but warfare tends to do that and it's a question of what you are prepared to suffer yourself in order to strike a blow on the aggressor .

Looks like we are only prepared to suffer minimally whilst a democratic country is invaded right in front of our noses .

 Chamberlain would be proud .

Id beat Russia with every stick I could lay my hands on, metaphorically speaking. But there is a reason the leaders of the modern world are holding back on the SWIFT payments system,

[Filo]

Ukraine have re taken Hostomel airfield captured by Russian airborne troops earlier, the airborne troops have been eliminated

[Mr1Croft]

At the moment, all that coded talk by the West about SWIFT sanctions is sounding like piss and wind. Locking Russia out of Swift would be a real smash in the face, but the west has so far backed down from doing it. If a full scale tank invasion isn't enough to trigger that, it makes you wonder what is.

The EU looking likely to vote against removing SWIFT .

Make of that what you will Billy .

Swift works both ways, it stops Russia gathering payments. But it also stops creditors outside Russia getting paid.
It would be a very big double edged sword.

Well that's fair enough but warfare tends to do that and it's a question of what you are prepared to suffer yourself in order to strike a blow on the aggressor .

Looks like we are only prepared to suffer minimally whilst a democratic country is invaded right in front of our noses .

 Chamberlain would be proud .

Id beat Russia with every stick I could lay my hands on, metaphorically speaking. But there is a reason the leaders of the modern world are holding back on the SWIFT payments system,

And this is why we are where we are today. Despite the outcry of the western world today, despite all the strong talk of repercussion and rethoric about defending democracy, the reality is the Western Governments of the world value the strength of their economic markets over nearly every other measure of a society and civilization. Russia and Putin do not. Putin cares far more about national security and military might than that of the Russian economy.

Putin may be mad, he may even be mentally unstable, he knows their will be sanctions that may slightly damage him and Russia, but he knows the European leaders and other Western nations would not sacrifice their own economies, even when defending democracy.

[mushRTID]

Does anyone think he may be seriously/terminally ill and just doesn’t give a f**k.

He looks a bit different in the videos/photos to me.

[normal rules]

He has reached that age I suspect , where a combination of his false perception of his limitless power and his limited mortality have collided. Badly.
He has adopted the now or never attitude. And he has taken the now path.

[Filo]

Someone suggested on Twitter that he has late stage syphilis and has gone mad

[normal rules]

Viktor Vekselberg's $120,000,000 yacht is currently docked in Europe, the Spanish islands. It could be seized.

Roman Abramovich's $590,000,000 yacht Eclipse is in Sint Maarten (Netherlands territory). It could be seized.