Ukraine

[drfchound]

Genuine question lads.
Can the average Russian citizen, living in Russia, see from the internet and FaceTime etc, what we can see.
Or is there some kind of block in place preventing that.

Reports on twitter that the anonymous hackers group have hacked Russian TV and a broadcasting what is happening in Ukraine

Well if that is true then we might yet see a kind of revolution against Putin because I can’t believe that generally the Russian population are in favour of what is going on.
It appears then that Putin lackeys are not controlling what people can see.

[River Don]

Genuine question lads.
Can the average Russian citizen, living in Russia, see from the internet and FaceTime etc, what we can see.
Or is there some kind of block in place preventing that.

It seems those who are tech savvy know what's going on. Those with links abroad too.

Those who rely on state TV news and RT are in the dark. There are still a lot of people in Russia who only get information from official sources.

Yep, I understand about the state tv etc.
So it appears to be that the average citizen doesn’t have access to FaceTime or even Facebook then, or the internet.

It appears not so much, Putin has been busy placing restrictions on social media today.

Information just wants to be free.

[drfchound]

Genuine question lads.
Can the average Russian citizen, living in Russia, see from the internet and FaceTime etc, what we can see.
Or is there some kind of block in place preventing that.

It seems those who are tech savvy know what's going on. Those with links abroad too.

Those who rely on state TV news and RT are in the dark. There are still a lot of people in Russia who only get information from official sources.

Yep, I understand about the state tv etc.
So it appears to be that the average citizen doesn’t have access to FaceTime or even Facebook then, or the internet.

It appears not so much, Putin has been busy placing restrictions on social media today.

Information just wants to be free.

So, also if that is true, it answers my original question.

[River Don]

Yeah, Putin is trying to limit online information.

The older part of the population are much less tech savvy and so rely much more on traditional media, TV and radio anyway.

[tyke1962]

Genuine question lads.
Can the average Russian citizen, living in Russia, see from the internet and FaceTime etc, what we can see.
Or is there some kind of block in place preventing that.

Reports on twitter that the anonymous hackers group have hacked Russian TV and a broadcasting what is happening in Ukraine

Well if that is true then we might yet see a kind of revolution against Putin because I can’t believe that generally the Russian population are in favour of what is going on.
It appears then that Putin lackeys are not controlling what people can see.

There's no revolution like a Russian one Hound if we go on history .

[SydneyRover]

just in case you haven't seen it

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/driver-offers-russian-tank-crew-26337435

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

just in case you haven't seen it

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/driver-offers-russian-tank-crew-26337435

It's videos like that which sum up the point isn't it? Those Russians dont in large cases want to be there.

My concern is how Putin reacts to sanctions.  Will he accept them or push back harder?  I fear we could push him too hard and he has no limit.

[SydneyRover]

just in case you haven't seen it

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/driver-offers-russian-tank-crew-26337435

It's videos like that which sum up the point isn't it? Those Russians dont in large cases want to be there.

My concern is how Putin reacts to sanctions.  Will he accept them or push back harder?  I fear we could push him too hard and he has no limit.

In my early years I was taught to turn the other cheek, I haven't done that for a long time as it didn't work then .........

[River Don]

just in case you haven't seen it

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/driver-offers-russian-tank-crew-26337435

It's videos like that which sum up the point isn't it? Those Russians dont in large cases want to be there.

My concern is how Putin reacts to sanctions.  Will he accept them or push back harder?  I fear we could push him too hard and he has no limit.

In my early years I was taught to turn the other cheek, I haven't done that for a long time as it didn't work then .........

Turning the other cheek does work but it requires extreme commitment.

See Mahatma Ghandi.

[BobG]

I used to work somewhere that had a very close and personal interest in Russia and its leaders; that had vast multi national resources, and, a frightening squadron of intellectual giants.

Their conclusion, unanimously, was that Putin is the most dangerous man on the planet.

I don't  see them being wrong, even though a rival has appeared in recent years.

BobG

[SydneyRover]

Agreed RD, I don't advocate war but strong defence, anyone thinking giving up Ukraine easily would end it are wrong, it would only invite a larger conflict in the Balkans later.

This is a fairly strong, measured and growing response from the west and obviously needs to remain united against the aggressor.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The last 24 hours has indicated that Putin is entirely isolated in world politics, barring his co-fascist dictator in Belarus.

The question now is: how does he respond?

[tyke1962]

My opinion is this you cannot be running scared of a bully .

Let's be clear this is about one man and when push comes to shove absolutely nobody in his close circle is going to let him press the red button because they die too and if they don't then they may as well do .

You have to stare this fecker down and have a pair .

Its time we went on the offensive with this fecker and flipped this the other way instead of the defensive position we currently adopt .

He's one man , that's all he is .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wow. I'd missed this one.

https://mobile.twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1497696378461593605

That is a massive step. All out economic war against the Russian state.

[River Don]

My opinion is this you cannot be running scared of a bully .

Let's be clear this is about one man and when push comes to shove absolutely nobody in his close circle is going to let him press the red button because they die too and if they don't then they may as well do .

You have to stare this fecker down and have a pair .

Its time we went on the offensive with this fecker and flipped this the other way instead of the defensive position we currently adopt .

He's one man , that's all he is .

NATO entering the war now?

Very high risk. Putin might send a warning shot and they might go along with it. Obliterate London.

Then things would inevitably escalate.

[SydneyRover]

China is supporting putin, buying more wheat and coal, by how much we will see but hopefully an increasing financial strangle hold on Russia may deter China from a similar opportunist venture over Taiwan.

[BobG]

Oh boy..  The west is showing its teeth now. The risk is it pushes Putin too far. Politically, he can't back down... and if he actually did, imagine the pent up rage and frustration that would cause. He's already shown he has a very long memory...

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

The best thing the UK could do right now is removing visa restrictions on people fleeing war zones.

The UK Nationality Bill gives the right to remove asylum claims from war refugees for a range of spurious criteria, none of which are relevant to the need to evacuate for personal safety.

Any politician who opposes offering support to refugees in these circumstances is a moral leper of the worst kind.
We managed to find visa approvals for Russian oligarchs in their droves when we were looking to enable money laundering on an industrial scale.

Let your MP know that this is the least we can do!

100%.

And suggestions like this, from an obscure Tory MP that refugees should apply for fruit-picking jobs to get a visa are...beyond words.

https://mobile.twitter.com/deletedbyMPs/status/1497697221252366337

I cannot emphasise enough that absolutely noone should be trying to make cheap political points out if this catastrophe. But equally, the Govt and ruling party must be held to account if we are going to show our true soul in dealing with the humanitarian disaster.

[BobG]

I've just read, again, the BBC 'highlights' page. And you know what? I've got tears, real bloody tears, in my eyes right now. That utter bas**rd. Living proof of the old maxim about power corrupting.

BobG

[RoversAlias]

For those wishing to donate to the cause, as some have asked, there are a number of outlets.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/24/how-can-britons-help-the-people-of-ukraine

I have already donated to the Red Cross emergency appeal and will be donating to a fundraiser to help Ukraine's media continue to operate tomorrow - that one is being done by Kyiv Independent who are managing to continue providing live updates on events to the world despite being bunkered in in Kyiv.

I feel so powerless and wish I could do more for Ukraine. This is what I can do, however small an impact it may have.

[BobG]

I'm wondering just how this horror could be turned to advantage. It's inevitably going to be part of the thinking in Western capitals.

Putin out is obvious. But what else? SWIFT offers the Chinese a huge opportunity so that will need to be countered.

Decisively weaken Russian firepower and Russian economic strength are 2 more obvious ones.

Capitalist opportunities for reconstruction is another.

What else could be on the table now?

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

AMD and Intel join in.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1497732381033259010

[Nudga]

Genuine question, are the Azoz Battalion the good guys?

[wilts rover]

Putin is in power because the oligarchs, like Abramovich, owe their wealth to him and keep him power. Take that wealth away and you will see that support disappear.

Bill Browder explains this in Red Notice - essential readig to understanding Putin's Russia

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Red-Notice-Finance-Murder-Justice/dp/1476755744

[River Don]

I think what really sustains Putin is the oil and gas.

Closing that is one sanction the west hasn't taken because nations like Germany and Italy and dependant upon it. There is the real problem.

[wilts rover]

BP own 22% of the Russian state oild company, Rosneft (which netted them £2.7 billion last year). There is no reason or excuse for purchasing anything at all, or allowing any British company to have financial dealings with Russia at this time.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/25/bps-ties-to-russia-draw-uk-government-concern

But whilst that may be effective in the long term it will have little short term effect as Putin has supposedly built up massive cash reserves in preparation for the invasion.

Browder in todays Mirror

he man who devised the first sanctions list against Putin’s cronies says the latest UK efforts are “missing the target” – which should be the dictator himself.

US Banker and anti-corruption activist Bill Browder says the crackdown should hit the Kremlin chief’s own wealth, which is kept safe and sound in London by a handful of his oligarch stooges.

Mr Browder said: “ Vladimir Putin ’s a very selfish man. He doesn’t care about other people, so sanctioning people around him doesn’t affect him.

“The only way is to hit his personal assets – and they are held by people known to us. We needed to make a list of top oligarchs two months ago and start hitting them five at a time, so he could see we are coming after his money. These men are well-known to us, they’re on the Forbes rich list and some of them even own football teams.”

https://twitter.com/Billbrowder/status/1497863345373913089

[wilts rover]

The best thing the UK could do right now is removing visa restrictions on people fleeing war zones.

The UK Nationality Bill gives the right to remove asylum claims from war refugees for a range of spurious criteria, none of which are relevant to the need to evacuate for personal safety.

Any politician who opposes offering support to refugees in these circumstances is a moral leper of the worst kind.
We managed to find visa approvals for Russian oligarchs in their droves when we were looking to enable money laundering on an industrial scale.

Let your MP know that this is the least we can do!

100%.

And suggestions like this, from an obscure Tory MP that refugees should apply for fruit-picking jobs to get a visa are...beyond words.

https://mobile.twitter.com/deletedbyMPs/status/1497697221252366337

I cannot emphasise enough that absolutely noone should be trying to make cheap political points out if this catastrophe. But equally, the Govt and ruling party must be held to account if we are going to show our true soul in dealing with the humanitarian disaster.

One of the main journalist's on Russian tv, currently pushing Kremlin propoganda, has a British passport, a flat in London and is on the electoral roll here.

Must have picked a lot of fruit.

https://twitter.com/Billbrowder/status/1497688199728091136

[SydneyRover]

Ergodan firming up his language against Russia, this is a good sign and may lead to the closure of black sea traffic.

[River Don]

Ergodan firming up his language against Russia, this is a good sign and may lead to the closure of black sea traffic.

Have to be careful there. We don't want a NATO member getting itself into military conflict with Russia

[tyke1962]

For those wishing to donate to the cause, as some have asked, there are a number of outlets.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/24/how-can-britons-help-the-people-of-ukraine

I have already donated to the Red Cross emergency appeal and will be donating to a fundraiser to help Ukraine's media continue to operate tomorrow - that one is being done by Kyiv Independent who are managing to continue providing live updates on events to the world despite being bunkered in in Kyiv.

I feel so powerless and wish I could do more for Ukraine. This is what I can do, however small an impact it may have.

Thanks for that I've just donated on the British Red Cross website to the Ukrainian cause .

Much appreciated .